Sea Chests

[Captain Midnight]

Ahoy me mateys!

What did a sea chest for the GAoP look like? Did they look like the ones seen at Marlinespike.com? I'm looking to build one of me own, but I'd like one that is appropriate to our time period. Thanks for your help!

[Fox]

[JoshuaRed]

What would you use for hinges? You could probably find some original hardware somewhere online, I'd wager. At least for reference. And do you think GAOP seamen had the artistic creativity of later seamen, in terms of decorating chests?

[Fox]

Can't say about GAoP period seamen, but I have seen Drake's seachest, which is vividly painted on the inside of the lid with stylistic pictures of ships.

[Captain Midnight]

Thanks, Foxe! I wonder what type of chest the two figures to the far right are carrying on their shoulders? They resemble the chests at marlinespike.com moreso than the two chests in the center of the engraving, which appear to be just plain boxes. I'd like to build something a little bit fancier than just a plain wooden box. I intend to paint the inside of the lid of mine as well with some nautical scene.

[Slopmaker Cripps]

Looks to me they're sea chests just like the others, just with their lids open.

The slanted wall style of sea chest wasn't around until the very late 18th and early 19th century.

Frank Rodriques did a lot of research on 18th century sea chests while he was working at the National Archives in Britain, and he found that most "sea chests" were similar to period boxes or blanket chests. Some were even just crates. So, it's just something to think about. It seems to me that people tended to want things strong and functional instead of dandified.

Cheers,

Adam

[Captain Midnight]

Ahoy Mr. Cripps!

Thanks for that bit of information, that is what I was really driving at. I didn't know the history of the sea chest, so I didn't know if marlinespike's were appropriate or not. As for being dandified, though, I don't think the later ones were...as a matter of fact, most of them shown on marlinespike's web site are pretty utilitarian looking, even if they are from a later period.

[Slopmaker Cripps]

Aye, when I said dandified I meant painted, fancy rope work, carvings, all that kind of stuff. Anything other than wood and the utilities holding it together. Mostly they were just boxes with a latch to keep thieves from lifting the lid. In fact, Frank told me that one of the documented sea chests he examined was a blanket box the guy brought from home that was originally at the foot of his bed. As I said, all sailors back then tended to be practical. In fact, it is my opinon that sailors are the most practical people of any age. So, when putting together an impression, practicality and simplicity are really the way to go.

addendum- when I say "painted" above I am referring to pictures and that kind of thing, not a couple coats of paint to cover up the natural wood (which is correct, but you have to choose colors wisely).

Cheers,

Adam

[Fox]

it is my opinon that sailors are the most practical people of any age.

I'd agree with that wholeheartedly FWIW. At sea you don't have the time to do things that are impractical - every difficulty is 5 times more difficult at sea, so you don't want to start introducing new ones. Given the limited space aboard most ships, but probably among pirate ships particularly (given their relatively large crews) you just don't have the room to take fripperies.

However, all that means that you probably make the best of the things you do have, hence the traditional pride taken in such seemingly small things as chest beckets and the like.

[JoshuaRed]

Wow! Cool to see marlinespike.com mentioned here...my dad is friends with that guy. Had some custom work done from him awhile back...he does beautiful work. Small world and getting smaller!

[Captain Midnight]

Yep, he does indeed do excellent work! I have never seen such magnificent knotwork...I wish I knew how to do that. And the chests are awesome!

[Deadeye]

Wow! Cool to see marlinespike.com mentioned here

I actually posted them a fw weeks ago in PLUNDER under "Swag fer yer Quarters". Been a longtime admirer myself of their work, and have studied the pictures to try and further my marlinespiking.

I think they also sell the plans and patterns for their chests if i am not mistaken.

[blackjohn]

it is my opinon that sailors are the most practical people of any age.

I'd agree with that wholeheartedly FWIW.

I don't like to disagree with either of you, but in this case I will. My vote is going to the soldier, on the march, as most practical. I'll place sailors second.

I found some interesting info on sea chests in a book I have on the Plimouth colony. I'd post it, but I'm still worn out from this weekend.

[Captain Midnight]

I'd be extremely interested in seeing that information, Blackjohn, thanks so much. I look forward to your post.

[Fox]

That's ok John <sniff> I don't mind you not agreeing with my every word...

On second thoughts, I'd place soldiers pretty high too. The big difference between seamen and soldiers (and this isn't an argument, it's an extension) is that the soldier carries minimal kit as he marches through his world. The seaman carries slightly more gear, but that gear represents his whole world for the time he is at sea. If the soldier's gear wears out, breaks, gets lost etc he can replace it. If the same happens to the sailor's gear then he's got to get my without it. It's for that reason that in the question of practicality I'd rate the seaman top and the soldier a close second.

I've seen a sea-chest from the Vasa (roughly contemporary with the Plymouth colony) which was basically a square box like the ones in the pictures I posted. Are the Plymouth ones radically different John?

[blackjohn]

That's ok John <sniff> I don't mind you not agreeing with my every word...

Ed... haha... too bad there's this big pond in our way, because I'd really like to shake your hand someday.

Ok, I wouldn't be suprised if you felt this way. If necessity is a spur to ingenuity and the mother of invention, then disagreement is a spur to research and the mother of new ideas.

I've seen a sea-chest from the Vasa (roughly contemporary with the Plymouth colony) which was basically a square box like the ones in the pictures I posted. Are the Plymouth ones radically different John?

I don't know, I'd have to look at Lisa's Wasa book (she lived in Sweden for a year and has actually seen the Wasa). Since there is so much in this Plymouth book, I'll have to do a little bit at a time.

"The simplest form of construction of case pieces is the nailed configuration. It was quick, efficient and less expensive than joined furniture."

"Dovetailed joints on boxes and chests were not commonly seen until the end of the century, and rarely then. Nailed construction was used well into the nineteenth century in the more rural and isolated communities in the United States."

This is from A Cubberd, Four Joyne Stools & Other Smalle Thinges: The Material Culture of Plymouth Colony. It's a great book, and don't let the title fool you. There's a wealth of info on things later than the Pilgrims.

The book has a good 15 pages on chests, though only the first few resemble anything close to a sea chest. Frankly, I'm suprised that nailed construction was so popular.

[MadMike]

Just found some info regarding a chest (although not specifically a seaman's chest) on the LaSalle shipwreck site (Belle) which sank near Matagorda Bay (betwixt Houston and Corpus Christi), Texas in 1686-

http://nautarch.tamu.edu/crl/Report5/oldsite/Chest.htm

The measurements of the chest are 25.5" long x 13" wide x 13.5" tall.

Months ago, I used pic's supplied by Foxe to make a chest; I made two chests, one which measures 26" long x 11" wide x 13" tall- not bad, eh?

Yours, &c.

Mike

[Fox]

Months ago, I used pic's supplied by Foxe to make a chest; I made two chests, one which measures 26" long x 11" wide x 13" tall- not bad, eh?

Fine work! Any chance of photos?

[MadMike]

Foxe,

I used the 1700's trader picture as the basis for a box, using details based on antique chests and those pictured in "Collectors Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution (hasps, lids, handles, paint scheme, etc).

Will try to take pics, the cell phone photo's aren't the greatest of quality.

Any info on chests recovered from the Mary Rose or Wasa?

Yours, &c.

Mike

[Captain Midnight]

This is great information, thanks guys! I think the chest recovered from the wreck is interesting, but I can't really make out any of its details from the small pics, and the videos wouldn't play on my computer. Is it a plain rectangular box?

So the slant-sided chests are too late for our period? That's a shame, I really like that design, and I love the marlinespike handles on them!

[blackjohn]

I don't know if this is germane, considering it is not listed as a sea chest, but I found it interesting nonetheless:

147. Leather Trunk

Wood, leather, iron

England, 1698

H: 20 W: 35 D: 18 1/4

Lent by The Pilgrim Society

This leather covered trunk was owned by Ephraim Little, pastor of the Church of the Christ at Plymouth from 1699 to 1723.  It bears his initials and the date 1698 on the top with brass tacks and is lined with nineteenth century cream-colored paper decorated with blue dots.  The trunk has been recovered at some point during the nineteenth century; therefore we do not know if we are seeing the original tack pattern.  The hardware appears to be original and at least some of the original paper lining is present under the early nineteenth century stenciled paper.

  At least twenty-one trunks are listed in Plymouth Colony wills and inventories between 1633 and 1650.  The English Leather Seller's Ordinance of 1635 required that trunks be covered with well-tanned leather, without hair; horsehide, hogs', or calves leather was not to be used.  Twelves or more "squires," or corner braces were required.  The lining was to be linin, cloth, or silk; paper was forbidden and the penalty for lining with it was a fine and defacement of the trunk.  When the Leather Sellers guild lost control, horsehide and sealskin with the hair on became common, and trunks were lined with decorated paper (often stenciled-over waste leaves from books), and later newspaper.

  The probate inventory of Edward Sturgis, Junior, of Yarmouth listed "a lether trunk" for 8 shillings in 1679.

[kass]

Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but do you think there would be a discernable difference between a "sea chest" and a regular trunk? I've always assumed that a sea chest was just a chest that went to sea and it would be the same if it were used as storage in a house. I don't know if that's true, of course, and frankly I know more about early 20th century trunks than anything else. But it may be that we're giving it a classification that didn't really exist. Or not...

The chest described in your post sounds very much like a replica chest they have at Pennsbury Manor. As I said, it is a replica but it based on a description of a chest numbered among William Penn's possessions when he left Pennsylvania for the last time in 1701.

[blackjohn]

I've assumed the same. Foxe, what are your assumptions?

The authors suggest chest number 148 in the text has travelled, as evidenced by the nail marks in the lid.

[Fox]

Except for the picture of the French traders above I can't offhand think of any strictly GAoP period sea-chests, so a certain amount must be educated speculation based on evidence from either side. With that in mind I don't recall having seen the tapered style of sea-chest prior to the 19th century, so I suspect that it's like a lot of nautical "traditions" ie. dating from the twilight of the age of sail.

The chests I've seen from the Mary Rose are all rectangular, likewise the Vasa chest I've seen, likewise the French traders' chests, Hogarth's "Idle's" chest, and the chests currently on HMS Victory (which are all repros, but presumably from a decent source, all their stuff is). I reckon you guys are right and "Seachest" is just a name, meaning no more than a chest which is taken to sea. FWIW, I don't recall ever having come across a barrel-topped sea chest either. Anyone?

[kass]

Nope. The few chests I've seen from this period are flat topped and rectangular.