Going "Hollywood"

[Fox]

I started off in a re-enactment society that prided itself on its authenticity, and had a very in-your-face attitude towards it. Long story short, two major ECW period groups, one bigger, one slightly more authentic but smaller, both trying to "be the best" - I was in the smaller one. We newbies were constantly told about the importance of authenticity and there was a huge amount of help given to newbies to bring them up to scratch. Then I went and did some re-enacting with other societies and realised just how inauthentic the ECW group I was in was (in some respects they were exemplary, but in other sadly lacking).

When I moved into 15th century re-enactment I found what I believe to be the perfect path to authenticity. Self policing. In my first year nobody pointed out the errors in my kit, they just offered to lend me better stuff. I was made aware of some of the minimum requirements and given the help I needed, but on the whole it was just accepted by all participants that we had to be authentic, and that everyone else was doing their best. That's how we run Bonaventure: everyone does the best they can, those that need the most help get the most help, people that aren't perfect aren't lectured, those that knowingly and willingly do things incorrectly are.

One thing that has always struck me about putting living history kit together is that doing it authentically really isn't any more expensive (except perhaps for shoes) that going Hollywood. A flash velvet fantasy coat will set you back more than a seaman's jacket, slops are no more expensive than breeches, and you could make three authentic narrow belts out of one wide Hollywood belt.

Am I more crochety as I've become more authentic? If I am then I think it's unrelated to authenticity, but I don't think I am. I've never been a fantasy re-enactor until recently (and now only very rarely), and I've always done my best to have fun - I wouldn't do it otherwise.

FWIW, the only time I've ever had to take part in an authenticity check before a battle it was the best, most fun battle I've ever been in (Hastings 2000).

[Deadeye]

and you could make three authentic narrow belts out of one wide Hollywood belt.

Jus a Question, for the sake of authenticity. What is the average width of a GOaP belt? I have never found any good references so i had to "Howard Pyle" it and went with 3". Also, would a 1.5" square brass buckle be right? or should i start lookin fer another?

[Monterey Jack]

Jus a Question, for the sake of authenticity. What is the average width of a GOaP belt? I have never found any good references so i had to "Howard Pyle" it and went with 3". Also, would a 1.5" square brass buckle be right? or should i start lookin fer another?

Hard to say, generally speaking, only because there really aren't a lot of historical skethces of pirates to go by; least wise not that focus on their belts. If you build on the idea that some pirates were ex-military you could go with a 1.5 inch belt and be pretty much on the mark. I think that was a standard spec for the British navy, but I may be off by a quarter inch. Now, structly hypothetically speaking, a pirate could take a strap off a sea chest and use it if he had to, which would make it two inches or more, and the iron buckles of mountain men and fur traders reached 2.5 to 3 inches because they used em for things other than holding up their pants.

Probably doesn't help much, but might make ye feel better about that horse cinch ye be wearing about yer waist!

[Deadeye]

Probably doesn't help much, but might make ye feel better about that horse cinch ye be wearing about yer waist!

Aye a little! Though it's sorta fitting, for I am a Large, Girthy, Mammal!

I will admit that i always liked the wide belt look, but what you like and what really was isn't always the same thing!

[Patrick Hand]

I'm jumping ahead.... I did not read the last two pages of this..... but I feel kinda mad about this arguement.....so if this has ben gone over...... whatth......

I have most of my Buccaneer "kit" but at the Renn faire.... doing the Hollywood Pyrate...... with the huge pyrate flage....... WORKED,,,,,,,, I know it is not period.... I know it is not historicicly correct................ aaaargh...

But it was fun..... and the public loved it......

back to my arguement that "playing" pyrate has or is closser to clowing,,,,,,,,

But by the same time...... no one reallyu cares (other than us) about what "real" pyrates were like...........

Worst part is...... If I was talking to you... dang... it would make sence..........

Like I typed.... I did not read the last two pages.... so this may be really outta place....

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Patrick... no worries mate!

I always enjoy your imput. You must be busy with a woman though, cause you have not been posting much recently!

Anyway.

I think there are horses for courses. And as you say, the public dosen't give a flying spagetti monster's ass what the hell a real pirate looked like (or talked like) anyway.

Our best hope (or my hope) is that .001 percent of the people that go to a pirate festival as a civilian, go home, look up pirate clothes (or pirate history) find one of our sites, and decides to get into it and do it historically accurate.

You my friend, are on the leading edge of buccaneer clothing research, so I am sending folks your way!

GoF

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Lets move the belt thread to Captain Twill.... I started a new topic there.

GoF

[blackjohn]

What I am really curious about is the percentage (or guess at actual number) of Historical Piracy purists there really are out there.

Not many, my friend, not many...

In a way I am glad that the fantasy pirates are out there because the hobby would not sustain itself if the only market was the 100 or so “authentic” pirates that are out there.

Me too. We've converted Hurricane from their ranks. We can convert more!

[blackjohn]

Theory:

If there is a progression from someone Interested in Pirates > Participant Fantasy Pirate (renfaireesque) > Pirate Re-enactor (with at least half of kit authentic) > Authentic Living History (trying to get to the mythical spot on)

My thinking is that as you move through the ranks/stages above, you get more crotchety.

The Fantasy folks who are out there just for a good time seem to have a lot of energy to entertain, "play the pirate part", work the crowd etc. The folks at the other end are (genereally) pooped and don't care about much more than themselves and their immediate group of re-enactors.

Interesting theory, and one I've wondered at over the years. Once I might have jumped on the bandwagon with you. But now, maybe not.

I started my re-enacting career in the late 70s. I don't remember exactly when - possibly '78 or '79. The first group I was in was a medieval group with the colorful name The Viking Horde. I would say their average age was a decade or so older than me, and they were, for the most part, very much into the research aspect of things. I dropped out of that group after a year or two. I forget why. Legend says it's because of some new members who joined.

Around 1982 I joined a group of medievalists called the Skraelings. They were a fun bunch. AND they were interested in "getting things right." Oddly enough, these were the same guys who legend says was the reason I left the Viking Horde.

I did medieval stuff on and off for a few years, but I caught the Roman bug, and since no one was doing Roman at the time, and I didn't want to spend gobs and gobs of money on better and better later period armor, I snuck into the re-enacting shadows for awhile.

About 1990 I joined up with the First Maryland Regiment. I did RevWar for a few years. Again, with the IMR, "getting things right" was always high on the priorities list.

Since then, I've dabbled in Roman (I'd do more than dabble, but $ gets in the way) and Old West, and WWII 15th Recce. Again, all with an attempt to do it right the first time.

Do I fit the progression? Maybe. Probably. That progression seems to reflect a natural learning curve. Learn. Make mistakes. Refine. Etc.

Have I gotten crotchety over the years? No, I don't think so. I think what has happened is this. Over the years, as my stuff has gotten better, I feel the need for my "fun" to progress along with it. So while 20 years ago singing Monty Python might have been fun, today fun would be singing period songs, or playing period games. Unfortunately, I can't seem to find anyone willing to go that extra distance at an event.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Yeah... Hurricane is interesting. I have a funy feeling though its not this board that has done the converting, but life experiences coming together at the right moment for him.

He mentioned the thing about Morgan and I hope he is planning on doing a Henry Morgan thing (kind of like Ben Cherry has the Black Beard thing sewn up on the Eastern Seaboard).

I worked for the VA Beach school system in the early 90s and their elementary schools had a "pirate" unit under the local history lesson planning.

Each year he would come to the elementary schools and do his Black Beard thing (which the kids LOVED!), I happened to be in the Office at the time the school was cutting the check for his hour performance...

That amount, times 72 elementary schools in the district..... NICE work if you can get it

I hope Hurricane does the same thing with Henry Morgan!

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I see your point John... and agree.

My analogy is that that I am like the kid who group up with a religious family, always going to church and always identifying themselves as a religious person.

My first re-enactment group was one that always went above and beyond (given the knowledge and ability of the times) and pursued the highest standards. I was 14 at the time and impressionable enough at the time to learn that there is only one way to do it, the right way.

So maybe its just me that’s gotten crotchety (although I know several others), or maybe “jaded” is a better term to use. I am starting to care less and less about entertaining and educating the public and focusing more on the details of my kit and having fun with friends that are into the same things as I am.

And then again maybe I am just getting old.

GoF

[blackjohn]

So maybe its just me that’s gotten crotchety (although I know several others), or maybe “jaded” is a better term to use. I am starting to care less and less about entertaining and educating the public and focusing more on the details of my kit and having fun with friends that are into the same things as I am.

OH! Ok, that I understand completely. Could it just be frustration? This is a totally uphill climb, with Hollywood holding the highground!

Honestly, of all the time periods I've done, Pirate seems to be the hardest of the lot. WWII is a cake walk. I can go online and buy original stuff to wear! Old West is a bit of a challenge, but not much. I'll raise a glass to the guy who invented the camera! RevWar is a snap compared to pirate. When and if I go back, it'll be a breeze. Roman, again, no problem.

So... where does that leave us? With a new challenge! To authentically educate and entertain the public!

[Red-Handed Jill]

Ah, but that's the issue - the public. For the most part, they don't want to be educated. They want to be entertained.

I find that as time has gone by, I'm satisfied with having a foot in both areas: authentic for myself and more flashy/hollywood for the public.

[Hawkyns]

Depends where you play, Jill. If all you play is faire and festival, you're probably right. Work the museum circuit and it's a completely different crowd.

Gwen and I do some fantasy, kit mostly based on the artist Clyde Caldwell's work. Lots of skimpy costumes and eye candy. On t'other hand, other than the eye candy part, I don't feel I get much out of those events. I feel kind of out of place at faire, can't drop the authentic mindset. Festivals are another iffy proposition, never was much for street theater. Give me a ship, a musket rack or a cannon or two and I can talk for hours. I've had some amazing discussions of history with the punters ranging from religious arguments to military strategy to daily life.

Everybody works best with a specific audience. I work best with the preofessor, the amateur historian or the researcher scholar. To each their own.

Hawkyns

[Patrick Hand]

I guess that's why I started "The Buccaneer Project".... it lets me have fun doing it as close to period as I can (hey... I have all winter to work on up-grading and sewing)

BUT.... I am kind of a Ham..... I like "playing" and interreacting with an audiance, so my Howard Pyle Pyrate works great for that.....

A period Buccaneer at a Renn Faire or in a parade, just "dosen't work"... to "out of place" (OK it IS closer to period..... but Renn Faires are NOT "Living History") so I will do "Trecking", and go to some Rendezvouse where it almost "fits" maybe I can find someother "crazed" authentic nut and we can do the Buccaneer period. (my girlfriend does NOT like real guns..... and besides Girls arn't period ...... (well OK they are, just not for what I'm doing....and she enjoys being a "Play Pyrate"......)))

But both are fun,..... that's why I do it..............

[Captain Emerald Shaunassey]

Let me start off by saying "Thank you" to all who have offered insights and theories to the world of Piracy; both historical and fantasy.

As one who is a long time Rennie and who owns their own production troup - I do things ALOT differently.

First, we are set during the Late Tudor - Early Cavalier periods due to the faires/festivals we perform at. Second, we portray an all (blantant) female privateer crew (yes, I have tweaked the historical accuracy for the sake of marketing angles that get us hired around the county). Third, we are all trained lane actresses that perform a comedy stage show (we work the lanes in between show times). Fourth, our costuming is a close to period for the time lines we run as money and sewing abilities can afford; keeping always in mind the "sensibility" factor of no twisted/sprained ankles at the day's end, we opt out on period shoes (would just have to have way to many pairs to cover all the periods and I'm *not* lugging around that much stuff!) and got for what the public recognize as "pirate boots." Fifth, I opted to not go with GAoP and for something older that a) hadn't been done/done alot of and that allows us to dovetail into ren faires/fests.

For our costuming, I do the research on design and fabrics - all naturals with colors that could be found during the periods (but that also allows us to be seen and recognized from 10 feet away and also fits our character's Gem names). I allow my girls free range with their ideas on costuming within the guidelines and attempt to always have a documentable source for them to compare their ideas to. Some of the girls prefer to wear skirts that look like they have been cut down from traditional women's dress. Others, like myself, prefer to mix male and female clothing together; I wear men's knee pants, a woman's chemise and bodice, a man's hat (a converted felt colonial tri-corn into a proto cavalier hat). I opt for a pair of knee high boots not only for the "flash" effect but also to support weak ankles (bloody family genetics!). I further twist my character in that she an Irish Catholic and third generation merchantman. I carry what is probably considered a more "hollywood" cutlass with matching boot dagger and an eating dagger on my 3" belt (along with my took and spoon, two pouches, tankard and bowl). Again, my belt probably isn't completely period but, it is handmade, supports the back and the junk I haul around for 10+ hours each faire day and looks good with the bodice.

Granted, alot of what we do and the character backstories (that are a must for the troup) are based off of conjecture of documentable resources but let's face it - in Oklahoma - there just aren't to many authentic reenactors, museums or events for 16th century privateers. Pirates of the Arkansas River during the antebellum era would be closer to period for the locale but just as difficult to find!

Our flashy side does include jewlery "taken from prizes," more blades than you can shake a stick at and non-firing firearms spanning several centuries (this kids love this aspect of us). We play period dice games and card games (with our trusty period cards) in the lanes and invite the patrons to join us and win "booty" from us (be it beads, coins .. whatever).

We do comedy because not everyone in the troupe can sing (that's where it would turn into a tragedy rather quickly!) and because there are a TON of talented singing pirate groups out there already. And we have fun portraying a group of barely legal pirates who believe they can break out into the newly attractive avenue of theatre. We try to keep our props down to what seafarer's would have in their possession but, it doesn't always work that way for the sake of the "funny."

We have done a variety of events outside of faires - movie promos for both PoTC and Master & Commander, a photo shoot on "The Nina" last fall (that was TOTALLY awesome!), school educational programs and trick-or-treating the elderly in the nursing home where I work mundanely. The children's shows we have written are a 15 minute story of the life of a documentable female pirate and/or privateer; ranging from myths spanning back to 600 B.C. to confirmed, historical pirates like the Lady Killigrew and Grace O'Malley. The way I was trained for ren faires was a tri-approach; 1) Entertain the patrons, 2) Educate the patrons without them knowing they've gotten an education and 3) Make the patrons feel good about themselves. That is what I strive for with my troup on a daily basis. We are known for singling out the people that today's society deem "outside the norms and accepted guides of beauty/handsomeness" and we make a hulla-ballo over how great they are. The single biggest thrill of my acting career has been seeing the look of joy steal over a child afflicted with Down's Syndrome as you dub them "The Dread Pirate Sinbad the Sneaky." That look tells me we are doing our jobs correctly.

We would love to be able to afford (both time and money-wise) to make the complete switch over to historical reenactments but, it just isn't possible at this time for several reasons. I do however, admire (and am evious of) those who are currently pursuing that avenue but somehow, after reading some of the posts about the truly historical side of Piracy - I don't think I'd fit in very well with my fellows. I like making people smile and feel good about themselves to much to be serious enough to give a 5 minute discussion of what life was truly like aboard ship. I will leave that to the pro's and if lucky enough to work with any of them, gladly be the "color" and "clown" pirate. :)

As it has been eluded it but not yet truly mentioned - it takes both kinds of actors to make the world of Piracy go 'round. I'm proud to say I portray a type of pirate (legalized and taxed tho' we be).

My hat's off to all of you - authentic reenactor, fellow professional clown, Hollywood Sparrow and Barbosa ... aspiring pirate. The world be a better place for all of you.

Enough of the rambling ... mundane college nursing work calls to me .. again.

Fair Winds and Smooth Sailin' to you all ... where e'r your course may lie.

With respects,

Cap'n Emerald

P.S. Please excuse the ramble. And as a disclaimer - this is not a "dis" or "slam" of anyone or anything.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Hawkyns...

Gwen and I do some fantasy, kit mostly based on the artist Clyde Caldwell's work. Lots of skimpy costumes and eye candy

ok... lets see the pics of you in skimpy costumes!

GoF

[Patrick Hand]

I just finished a farby pyrate coat. I spent less than three hours making it. It was royal blue cotton cordoroy untill I dyed it navy and black. It has no lining and was just "thrown " together outta some excess fabric that I had around. But I made it for Ojai, where it gets a bit too hot for my wool coat (the wool coat is great in the snow, and in winter...)

The funny part about it is that I had a real problem NOT linning it or making it semi period..... when all I wanted was something to play in........ and not be to warm......

[Deadeye]

The funny part about it is that I had a real problem NOT linning it or making it semi period..... when all I wanted was something to play in........ and not be to warm......

I Know the sentiment exactly. One of the thing i love about Playin a Pirate is you can get away with a light colored, open chested shirt and breezy breeches and nobody looks at ya funny. An added bonus comes in wetting down yer head scarf and neckerchief also. When i did Faires and Events in SoCal and TX in the middle of summer, that came in handy!

I Always pittied the Nobles in their 50lbs of velvet and the knights in their fryin pans!

[Pirate Petee]

I Always pittied the Nobles in their 50lbs of velvet and the knights in their fryin pans!

[Ransom]

As a former member of the SCA for 10 years, in HOT Riverside, Ca. I can attest to the 'sweating rivers under the bodice' syndrome. I also tried, as much as possible, to stay with period materials and look. However, the proliferation of self-appointed costume police got to be really old. When my husband and I did a lot of the horse games, safety came before historical acuracy. I saw a former SCA Queen get dragged off her horse because her long skirt got tangled with the horses hind legs.

As for pirate garb, I think the vary nature of pirates lends itself to exaggeration and fun. Yeah, be historical when you have to, but roll with it when you don't. I'm making a pirate coat to wear this winter as an every day coat. A major pattern company put out a halloween costume pattern with a Capt. Jack Sparrow look alike on the front. I'd been looking for a pattern of that style coat for a long time, so snagged it when on sale for only 99 cents. Can't wait to whip it up and wear it everywhere.

I just wish there were more pirates and pirate events in my neck of the woods. I loved and miss costumes and taking on a persona, so wearing my pirate coat will have to serve. If someone happens to ask me if I'm a pirate, I'll just point to my truck, which has a window sticker of a skull and crossbones, and says "Pirate Girl.

[Gigi]

We do a lot of playing around gags and "bits" while we're at the faire. Some people in our group go more for authenticity and others go for flash and flare. I have to admit, it's really nice when you get that special smile from a kid, but it can also really drag down what was a great day when a period nazi decides to be snide. So, being that I'm not working on my authenticity, I stick to faires and gatherings that are more "entertainment" and playful, and let the pros handle the rest where authenticity is required.

[Rummy3]

I have pyrateage with flair and not too authentic but for ren faires i have the "approved" garb as well. The thing about some nobels here is that they take it a bit too seriously and forget that they aren't all that when away from faire. I was working the gate as a ticket taker several months back and a nobel dressed in green velvet looked me in the eye and stated, "I take it you found your hovel" (I remember her remark every time I see her to this day, and wished I had replied with, "Why, yes, it was your man that took me there!") Of course - my mind is not that quick when i am angry. LMAO Pyrating is WAY more fun!

[Pirate Petee]

Well my kit is period, it may not be super authentic, but it is period. What I mean by that is they arn't all hand sewn, but they were all hand made, and not all the material is period material, but every piece could have been worn by a pirate in the GAoP. Except for my pirate "utlity belt" it really gives meaning to tools of the trade. Also my problem is this, I am a very creative person and I'm always adding little touches to my kit, call it my artistic license. When I see something with piratitude that I like, I gotta have it and through it on there somewhere.

[HarborMaster]

Going "Hollywood", How much is too much

Too much is never really enough., I say go for it., If you can get flamboyant go for it., Sometimes a Black coat is good (Tho black is not really period) Sometimes a velvet is good.,sometimes just a shirt pants and a not period sash works.,Sometimesa pair of "Hollywood Boots" I wear what I like., and dont really care who likes it. I am in it for me. I like Real Gold.,BIG and I like real Silver BIG , HA If your going "Wrong in Jewelry .,Go wrong BIG there as well.

I like real guns and real swords., main gauges ect. I got too much invested be it right or wrong to care about what others think. I will wear for many years what I have till its trashed.,adding all the time.

1. I am having me a good time.

2. Little children wanting photos.,and treasure., and parents enjoying it.

3. How it makes me feel on the few occasions I get to do it.

For me this is what its all about

I did get snubbed bad at our 2004 event by a pirate group wearing all black.,I was in my blue velvet frock., However I did get the nod of approval from the King and Queen of the fair.....,they did not.