Going "Hollywood"

[blackjohn]

So I now understand the other side. The history and accurate representation is amazing.

Duuuuuude!

:)

but the buccaneer age fascinates me even more than GAoP.

I too am fascinated by buccaneers. If you haven't read it, might I suggest Barry Clifford's The Lost Fleet. Very cool 1670s stuff.

http://www.whydah.com/page.php?id=exp03

[blackjohn]

I was referring to buccaneer groups that set themselves up similar to the Rendezvous folk; dress it, live it, suffer thru it for weeks at a time, basically recreate every step along the way to living the way they actually lived. Hard to do in the states, where you don't have the climate and conditions of Hispaniola, let alone Hispaniola of 1650-1720 but someone may be attempting it.

Thanks for the clarification. While visiting Assateague National Seashore earlier this summer I got to wondering if such an event could be done there. They have backwoods campsites there on the barrier island, I believe it is a 12 mile hike from the parking lot, along the beach. Of course, they do have silly rules like, "no firearms," but the last time I looked, my doglock is not classified as a firearm by BATF. So... this is on my "to-do" list, but because I have two young kids, it's not at the top of the list. Now, once they get old enough...

[Capt. Lazarus Gage]

I like to lean more towards the historical, I like my clothes to be plain and have the "lived in" feel, but if I come across something that's not EXACTLY period that I like I'm going to wear it, and damn everyone else. After all......I am a pirate!!!!

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Huuurrrrriiiicaaaaannnnne!

I can't get into the buccaneer thing myself, but I am glad that there is interest in it and that people are pursuing it. There is proably even less information on buccaneers than GAoP stuff so the hunt should be interesting.

Pat Hand is working on a pretty good kit, he may have takled some of the sticky wickets already and would probably be happy to share with a fellow enthusiast.

I have enjoyed reading your posts while I have been here at the pub. I know it must get discouraging after a while seeing the same old retread threads....

I think I have grown a little too. While I have performed on stage (even recently) and enjoy entertaing people, somehow it hasn't crossed over to my re-enacting life. For some reason, I don't feel like "entertaining" the crowd with pirate hijinks. Maybe its becuase, after spending hours hand stitching my underwear, I don't want it to be percieved as some sort of clown costume...

But I am glad that there are groups out there who visit old folks homes, schools, and hospitals, and love to make people smile and laugh.

And maybe those "entertaining" pirates just might spark someones interest enough to google "pirate clothes", find my site on the web and become an authentic re-enactor...

who knows, stranger things have happened.

GoF

[hurricane]

Stranger things indeed. Like me seeing the other side for a change.

I'm particularly interested in Henry Morgan during his later reign, when he walked the fine line as lt. governor of Jamaica. It's complexity at its best. A former pirate who is now responsible for eradicating piracy while still getting his share of loot and protecting his fellow crew members from persecution. Plus he's a bloody national hero in Jamaica. A pirate as a national hero - now there's a switch.

I am just making baby steps into re-enacting the role. But it's been intriguing to get deeper into the character than the tall tales and libelous writings of that liar Exquemelin.

And it taps nicely into my Welsh heritage as well.

But I can now understand that crossing over would be nigh impossible. While I enjoy the hijinks side of the business, can't see that on the re-enactment side at all. It would be totally out of character. I've been blessed to watch Ben as Blackbeard. And he has that same work ethic. When in character there's no pulling him out of it. And I think that's what makes his personage magnificent.

Onward and upward. By the way, I've been following your postings and links. Thanks for bringing so much of the history to light. I applaud you for it.

It's not always easy to put yourself out there on subjects that contain so much latitude and interpretation as pirates.

-- Hurricane

[Fox]

Hurricane! Welcome to the dark side!

In terms of what Monterey Jack would call living history, we are planning a canoe expedition next year in a vague attempt to recreate the crossing of the Isthmus of Panama by Bartholomew Sharp et al. We can't very easily replicate the heat and humidity of South America in England, but we're going to have a good stab at the rest of it. Period food, no tents, blankets instead of sleeping bags, no porta-gas stoves, only water or beer to drink, and only the gear we can carry in a canoe.

Rumba, I wrote a piece for NQG a few years ago about the big differences, as I perceived them, between UK living history and US renfaire. I concluded the difference in approaches was basically down to the sites available. We are very fortunate in the UK to have massive numbers of historical sites, you'd really have a hard job walking 5 miles without coming across something old. As a result we tend to be a lot more focussed on real history. You wouldn't have a pirate event at Gettysburg, we just treat our sites the same way. The difference is that 95% of the events over here take place at historical sites, and the only way to get good gigs is to strive for better authenticity than the next group.

[Monterey Jack]

In terms of what Monterey Jack would call living history, we are planning a canoe expedition next year in a vague attempt to recreate the crossing of the Isthmus of Panama by Bartholomew Sharp et al. We can't very easily replicate the heat and humidity of South America in England, but we're going to have a good stab at the rest of it. Period food, no tents, blankets instead of sleeping bags, no porta-gas stoves, only water or beer to drink, and only the gear we can carry in a canoe.

That's exactly the type of thing I mean, Foxe. We have loads of mountain men here in the US who disappear into the forests for weeks on end in the summer and even go hunting in period 18th century style in the dead of winter; so I figure there must be someone who's thought of re-creating the buccaneer lifestyle. Good luck with it; I suspect we'll all hear how it turns out!

[Red-Handed Jill]

As someone else with a foot in both areas, for me it's a matter of the event. If I'm there to entertain young kids, I'm going to wear more "Hollywood" pirate garb. If more authenticity is needed, I have garb for that as well.

It's all situational.

[Patrick Hand]

I also do both... I'm working on The Buccaneer Project and I have a semi authentic Pyrate that I wear in parades and for Fairs. I have the "bad habit" of "Leaning" more towards authentisity, (just aks my girlfriend who is just starting to play Pyrate......) but try to not be Too bad about it......

My semi-authentic Pyrate stuff is kinda baised on Howard Pyle paintings, I go for a grungy Pyrate crewman look. The cut of the garments is very close to period, but most of the fabrics are cotton... The tarpline hat is a period construction, but the brim is too large, and the skull and crossed bones painted on it are not...... But it LOOKS like what people think of as a Pyrate.

The Buccaneer Project, is an attempt to get as authentic as I can. Right now, the shirt and hunting jacket are made out of cotton, but this Winter, I'm going to be re-making them out of linen and Hemp canvas. I'm trying to learn how to knit, so I can make a more period pair of socks, right now, the corect shoes are kind of a problem, so I may have to make a pair myself. I am also making all of the gear that I will need to go period camping. I have most of it finished, just not the time to go camping with it......

Montery Jack, check out ... http://www.historicaltrekking.com/

Buccaneers fit into the time period that they are doing.

The biggest problem with the Buccaneer vs. the Howard Pyle Pyrate, is that the Buccaneer is so "Plain" and no one know what it is soppose to be....... with the Howard Pyle Pyrate, EVERYONE knows its a Pyrate..... Being a bit of a ham, it is Fun interreacting with people who want a picture with "The Pyrate"........

The Howard Pyle Pyrate is fun for "playing" with people, and the Buccaneer is fun, for knowing that I've done it right, and when I have the time to go trecking. Both have thier place.

[Monterey Jack]

IMontery Jack, check out ... http://www.historicaltrekking.com/

Buccaneers fit into the time period that they are doing.

Thanks for the lead, Patrick!

I've been following your Buccaneer Project as well and have to say its coming along great; congratulations on the in depth research; the results are impressive!

[callenish gunner]

i must say that the acceptance by many groups of those of us who aren't 100% period authenic is heartening ......... as for boots i have always thought that whatever boots or shoes were gathered as booty by the crew was distributed to those it fit ....rich, poor or what have you ....if i was on board a ship in the carribean i would most likely be barefoot while on board but on shore i would wear the best i had to give the impression i was a successful marauder ... and i have the period shoes as well but i have saved those for more reserved events in colonial reenactments as in those in valley forge or williamburg ..but depending on the unit i am with depends on if i drag out high boots for the cavalry/dragoon regiments.... and hand sewn mocassins for the forager groups ...the periods were not as finely defined as we'd like to think there were periods when the older styles remained available for years after they had been a fashion fauxpah in polite society of the day... the same as polyester leisure suits can still be found today ....so i'm sorry but some folks need to take the "rods from their rectums" and lighten up a bit and the costume shop pirates need to understand that there are some other folks who strive for the "real deal" for themselves

we need to share our joy of the lifestyle we're trying to emulate whether it be in great detail or in a lesser dedication to the fine minutia of period thread counting

[Charity]

Thank you, it's nice to read such things.

Speaking for myself, i'd LOVE to be a seasoned re-enactor and have all the period clothing and be all perfect and such..i'm Dutch, and it's not big here.

I do my best to enjoy the whole thing but those who more or less expect everyone into "piracy" in any way at all to be perfectly period and accurate are very unnerving to me.

I'm just trying to have fun, but we don't have the resources other countries have and it's above my budget to buy anything too expensive anyway, let alone ordered in from the USA, so..i hope you all can just be a little understanding to people such as myself :)

[Fox]

I do my best to enjoy the whole thing but those who more or less expect everyone into "piracy" in any way at all to be perfectly period and accurate are very unnerving to me.

I think Charity has hit upon one of the real sticking points of this game. Don't be unnerved Charity, NOBODY expects 'everyone into "piracy" in any way at all to be perfectly period and accurate'

If you want to do events with my group or with the Pirate Brethren or any of the other groups that GoF listed (and other like groups not listed) then yes, you would be expected to give your best shot to being as authentic and accurate as you could (and we would offer as much practical help to that end as we could). If you want to do anything else piratical then nobody cares how accurate or not you choose to be, and we applaud your dedication to piracy nonetheless.

Period accurate re-enactors of piracy really aren't trying to change anyone or anything except for themselves. I've noticed on this board a real persecution mania amongst some Hollywood type guys who're convinced that we history-purists expect 'everyone into "piracy" in any way at all to be perfectly period and accurate'. It just ain't true.

We want to constantly improve our own portrayals, and we do the research to that end. IF you want to go authentic then please come and share the research too. If not then you're as welcome to the research as anyone, but it's entirely up to you how much of it you follow.

(Oh, and Charity, depending on the kind of thing you want I might be able to help you find some reasonably priced UK or European based suppliers)

[Gentleman of Fortune]

What I am really curious about is the percentage (or guess at actual number) of Historical Piracy purists there really are out there. I don't mean the ones that talk the talk and then dress in their own pirate fantasy outfit.

I mean really dedicated historical re-creationist/experimental anthropologist type.

Even in groups that profess to be "authentic," there are those "old time friends" that are great friends that you WANT to have around, but have not necessarily bought into the whole authenticity thing....

Every group of every period has those folks..... (By the way, I am not saying they should be "purged", I just think its a phenomenon.)

This really is meant to dovetail into Foxes post. We often “hear” of piracy stitch Nazis, but I rarely run into the ones that condemn everyone else to re-enacting hell.

Now personally, for my own kit, I am an ultra stitch Nazi. And I don’t mean to say that my kit is 100% either. I am just trying to go to the edge of what our modern knowledge of what was authentic 300 years ago will allow.

Which means, I will only go as far as the limited documented evidence will get me and then use the collaborative modern best guess until more info surfaces.

In a way I am glad that the fantasy pirates are out there because the hobby would not sustain itself if the only market was the 100 or so “authentic” pirates that are out there.

And, my contention is that eventually, somebody that is REALLY into piracy (or any other period) will search out was is authentic anyway. It might take LOTs of time to happen but I can wait.

Ramble over

GoF

[Charity]

nd, my contention is that eventually, somebody that is REALLY into piracy (or any other period) will search out was is authentic anyway. It might take LOTs of time to happen but I can wait.

Definitely!

I try my best and for one, having a satin blouse, i have decided to try and make one (new at sewing) from the same pattern in cotton or linnen as it's more original.

Anyway would love to be as historical as possible i think :)

Thanks guys, for the great posts andFoxe, i am saving up to go to Brittain next year and HOPE to visit a festival there, and money is extremely tight but i always am interested in tips on suppliers as i hope in the future to get more authentical stuff.

Problem is, with the amount or lack of amounts of events it would be silly to spend too much on it..i hope the events are on it's way and with POTC 2&3 there will be a growing interest :)

I will surely help it if i can!

Our country has a huge legacy and history in the great age of Sail (which obviously included piracy) so i am hugely disapointed at the lack of more serious events around this.

[Monterey Jack]

I have to say its good to see the "live and let live", or more appropriately "dress and let dress" attitudes out there. With my history of ren faire, arguably one of the least correct venues for authenticity, I've had my share of people telling me I'm not period while sporting items 100 years out of date.

My original question was sparked primarily by folk in fantasy piratical garb complaining about the lack of historical pirate groups to join. I hope it wasn't taken that I was forcing folks to take a stand one way or the other. I was more curious about where folks are drawing their own lines, if at all.

I prefer the historical, but will add flashy bits now and then; the only time I have to step away from that is when dealing with other Western Martail Arts Instructors who hear "cutlass" and automatically assume "costumed nut-case with a sword". That's when the extremely plain 1800s garb comes out, which in some respects already looks like a fencing instructors outfit.

Thanks again for all the input on this topic!

[Deadeye]

Just my humble opinion, But in keeping with what was said thus far, when i think of ren faire, i think "Make-believe time for Adults, with a bit of history thrown in" I have literally seen Kingons at ren Faire. My Basic consensis on the matter is simple: When in Rome....

Huzzah! for the Fantasy Pirates for their Ferver and keeping the interest going

and Huzzah! to Reenactors for their desire to educate and portray the Real Deal.

I myself was Lured by Captain Hook, and Long John Silver... But Stayed for Bart Roberts and Edward Teach! So their is Proof Positive, GoF, that Fantastic interests will lead for a quest for the truth....

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Ok... here is another observation and I would really appreciate Hurricane's (or is it Cpt Morgan now? ), Hawkyns, Foxe, and Black Johns input here as they have spent A LOT of time in Piratical (and other Living H ) pursuits.....

Theory:

If there is a progression from someone Interested in Pirates > Participant Fantasy Pirate (renfaireesque) > Pirate Re-enactor (with at least half of kit authentic) > Authentic Living History (trying to get to the mythical spot on)

My thinking is that as you move through the ranks/stages above, you get more crotchety. Now I don't mean that everyone makes the progression above, but we all started at some point and have moved along during our "careers".

The Fantasy folks who are out there just for a good time seem to have a lot of energy to entertain, "play the pirate part", work the crowd etc. The folks at the other end are (genereally) pooped and don't care about much more than themselves and their immediate group of re-enactors.

Not all but an observable amount (at least by me).

and another thing....

I am curious to ask Hurricane about his experience in his recent trip to visit actual places important to pirate history (a lot of it by boat it seems). I mean, if you are out on the water in a sailing ship in the freakin Caribbean, it has to be life changing... ?

GoF

[Monterey Jack]

Theory:

If there is a progression from someone Interested in Pirates > Participant Fantasy Pirate (renfaireesque) > Pirate Re-enactor (with at least half of kit authentic) > Authentic Living History (trying to get to the mythical spot on)

My thinking is that as you move through the ranks/stages above, you get more crotchety. The Fantasy folks who are out there just for a good time seem to have a lot of energy to entertain, "play the pirate part", work the crowd etc. The folks at the other end are (genereally) pooped and don't care about much more than themselves and their immediate group of re-enactors.

For my part, if I may.....

Over the past 17 years of faire work and half way thru that making the progression to historical studies and into teaching....

You get worn down. Early on by the experienced folk telling you you don't know anything, to the patrons who assume they know more than you (many do and are polite about it, but some...)

Then you gain the experience, make the move into the historical and find you still have less knowledgable people telling you you don't know anything, your theories are wrong or your technique is misguided. This, often with no reference to back it up.

It often not so much the negative input, but the constantly trying to be polite about it, maintaining the professionalism and still trying to have fun in the face of all the negativity.

Then other days you get great reviews, happy students or you discover a technique or a text that just simply brings you into the light again and life is good.

But, yeah...I can do crotchety!

[Master Sully]

I think many people start off with whatever gear is available in there price range. Personally, I picked up pieces here and there that were mostly in the fantasy/ ren area. As I learned more about period sutlers, I purchased better gear. Now I have 3 different kits; Hollywood/ fantasy for the kids, a period kit for schools and museums, and I'm working on a nasty, disease ridden, filthy kit for full emursion into the pirate lifestyle. The most important thing about it all is having fun!

[Iron Bess]

and I'm working on a nasty, disease ridden, filthy kit for full emursion into the pirate lifestyle. The most important thing about it all is having fun!

Oooooooooooooo..... PICTURES!!!

We'll want PICTURES!!!!

[Hawkyns]

Well, to answer GoF's question, that was not my progression. I started 29 years ago in the SCA. Did that for about 4 years, then got hooked up with a group that was doing WWII and joined the Brit Commandos. Those guys are real stich counters. So from there, any re-enacting I've done has been based on the ideas I learned in the WWII HRS. I pretty much hang around the period 1470-1740, mostly involved with ships and cannon.

Crotchety? Don't know that I'd use that term, but curmudgeon has been chucked about a bit. If someone's making an effort and wanting to learn, I'll do whatever I can to help them. If someone comes in who obviously has no clue and starts to tell me what I should be wearing... well, let's just say I don't suffer fools. Reasoned debate and historical discourse is fine. I've spent many a late night discussing various interpetations of archeological finds.

As for the public, I think I talk more to them now than I did in my early days. Bear in mind that much of what I do is at historical sites and ships, so I'm effectively a living museum exhibit. I'm expected to talk to the punters and explain what I'm doing, how the drill works, what they are really seeing. A full livng history weekend and I'm pretty damn hoarse by Sunday night.

Hawkyns

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

I'm working on a nasty, disease ridden, filthy kit for full emursion into the pirate lifestyle. The most important thing about it all is having fun!

Hehehe!

That's what I like about our latest "Hollywood" pirates. POTC did a fantastic job of combining big screen pirates with plenty of filth and disease and scruffiness.

That's one of my favorite parts of Sparrow is that he's still just a mangy bilge rat if you look close enough. I've had fun trying to come as close as possible to the carefully place filth and ditressing of my kit.

[Monterey Jack]

That's what I like about our latest "Hollywood" pirates. POTC did a fantastic job of combining big screen pirates with plenty of filth and disease and scruffiness.

As poorly as it went over in some circles, I was fairly happy with what they did with Cutthroat Island as far as aging and distressing the costumes. I can't stand having anything brand-spankin' new...in character or out.

[Pirate Petee]

Aye, I'll have to agree with you.