Going "Hollywood"

[Pirate Petee]

Noooooo, Boot Leg your Booty in your Boots.

[William Brand]

I have to admit it, despite my view that history is better, I love the boots...

(William ducks an assault of flying, short, buckled shoes)

[blackjohn]

Wait, isn't that a part of a Three Stooges skit?!?!

[Pirate Petee]

Aye, I do love the boots too. I like to call mine "Historically accurate with a touch of artistic license."

[Captain Jim]

Nooooo, follow the shoe! By wearing the shoe, one's calves are exposed, but for a thin layer of cotton (or cotton-poly blend  ) and allows one to attract all manner of followers! Oh the irony, that this would be my 1000th post!)

John,

Congratulations on yer DP Status.

[Iron Bess]

It may come as a shock but it's not all about them.

Realistically, it's about making the event sponsors happy so they invite us back.

If it's a sponsored event then you ought to know what the dress criteria is for what you're doing BEFORE you go as a matter of course. That's only common sense.

That being the case, you dress appropriately and there is no problem.

I'm saying that no one, such as another participant with only his own opinion to back him up, has the right to pick on anyone else.

[blackjohn]

I'm saying that no one, such as another participant with only his own opinion to back him up, has the right to pick on anyone else.

Agreed. Picking on someone is detrimental to us all.

I'm curious Bess, have you ever done any historical re-enacting? (And pardon my ignorance if you have, I certainly mean this as no insult, but an honest query.) There have been times when I, in an official capacity, have had the task of asking someone to remove modern objects from plain sight, put away things that "aren't right" and so on. It's not of out malice, but out of respect for the majority who are following the rules for that event.

Again, it boils down to, do what's expected for the event. If it is plainly listed as a re-enactment, dress one way, if not, feel free to dress another.

[blackjohn]

Congratulations on yer DP Status.

Thanks! I've had fun. I've learned much. There are good folk here.

[Iron Bess]

Agreed. Picking on someone is detrimental to us all.

I'm curious Bess, have you ever done any historical re-enacting? (And pardon my ignorance if you have, I certainly mean this as no insult, but an honest query.) There have been times when I, in an official capacity, have had the task of asking someone to remove modern objects from plain sight, put away things that "aren't right" and so on. It's not of out malice, but out of respect for the majority who are following the rules for that event.

Again, it boils down to, do what's expected for the event. If it is plainly listed as a re-enactment, dress one way, if not, feel free to dress another.

Yes, picking on folks can tend to take the fun out of an event for some people. Maybe not those picking on them.

I've never had a problem when I've asked someone to *adjust* their rigg or make a small change in what they were wearing. It's my experience that the MANNER In which you ask them is more important then the reason. Tell them that they are dullards and fools and have no sense of history to dress in that way and it must come off with all haste will only end badly for all parties. Don't scoff, I've seen and heard people do it. (Talk about your dullards)

(shrug) I compliment them on all their efforts, find something (even if I have to lie) and tell them how much I like it and then suggest that *This or that* particular thing does not really lend itself to the correct dress and would they mind tucking it away for now? I can then send them off to someone that can help then plan better for next time.

And if that fails with them.... I have them press ganged.

[Ace of Harbor Bay]

It may come as a shock but it's not all about them.

Realistically, it's about making the event sponsors happy so they invite us back.

If it's a sponsored event then you ought to know what the dress criteria is for what you're doing BEFORE you go as a matter of course. That's only common sense.

That being the case, you dress appropriately and there is no problem.

I'm saying that no one, such as another participant with only his own opinion to back him up, has the right to pick on anyone else.

Unfortunately that happened over and over to me last year at Ojai.

There were several members of several groups (PRP included) that harrassed me the whole time.

I think part of that was the fact I am not from So-Cal and hadn't been very active on the pub, etc. So I was a new face and a "Hollywood- Sparrow type" on top of it.

This year being booked on stage makes it easier for me, because then they just become fodder. I do love to take down a good heckler.

I seriously hope that now that I've been there once before, that it will lighten up a bit so I can just enjoy myself.

[Iron Bess]

This year being booked on stage makes it easier for me, because then they just become fodder. I do love to take down a good heckler.

Whoo Hoo!!

Save me a good seat lad and I may even send a few your way just to watch you work!!

(sharpening her harpoon for you...) Here lad, feel free to heft mine!

[Demon Cat]

The garb I'm putting together is just for fun, and not for re-enactment. The approach I take is to research the actual history, and then modify as I see fit to make things more interesting (from a fantasy/Hollywood perspective). By starting with a historic base, it helps "sell" the outfit, making it feel more belivable.

The costuming in POTC basically takes the approach. Many of the clothes they used were accurately based upin historic sources. But, there is artistic lisense taken in places, and the costume pieces appear to have been taken from range of periods in the 17th and 18th centuries.

[Monterey Jack]

I don't think I've ever started a thread with this much input!

Thanks to all of you for your insight into this thing. It seems the most common way to go is to start off historically and add the bits you like, keeping in mind what event you are planning to attend, the folk who you'll be accosting...er...aproaching, and the rules applied therein.

I may be wrong, but as far as I can tell there are no truly "living history" piratical groups out there the way there are Rendezvous, Black Powder and Mountain man groups, though I'd love to hear from a living history buccaneer group if one exists.

The group I'm working on is part educational demos of 17th-18th c. maritime weaponry, but also family-oriented and so must also be flashy. I like what was done in both PotC and Cutthroat Island so far as the costuming, so I think that's where we'll head our group; as I think someone stated already a bit of mix between 17th and 18th century.

Don't let this post stand in the way of continuing the discussion, though!

[Fox]

Sticking my oar in, mind your heads.

I am, for the most part, a dyed in the wool living-historian. I spend a great deal of time and effort researching my gear and making as accurately as I possibly can, and I take pride in the results. However, very occasionally I do "Hollywood" pirate type events.

My normal GAoP period navy gear consists of a short seaman's jacket, waistcoat, striped shirt (or checked), striped petticoat breeches, hose, buckled leather shoes, neck-cloth, and a cocked hat turned with the point at the back. When I want to go Hollywood I put the neck-cloth round my head like a bandana and turn my hat so the point's at the front. I have never yet not been recognised as a pirate - heck, I spend half my time at Navy events explaining that I'm not a pirate.

You don't need big boots or long coats to be instantly recognisable. If you want to wear them 'cos you like them then fine, but don't feel they are necessary if you want people to know who and what you are. Never underestimate the general public's tendency to regard anyone in old-looking, maritimey-looking clothes as a pirate. I've been called a pirate in everything from my ECW engineer's gear to my Nelsonian petty-officer outfit.

As John said, it's a damn site easier to go from being an authentic pirate to a Hollywood pirate than it is to go the other way, and if you want to do both then you really only need one set of gear. In terms of when to wear what - if you've got two sets then wear whatever's most appropriate for the event in question; if you've got one set that does both then it really doesn't matter does it?

The important thing is to enjoy it. I've noticed on this thread a couple of people saying words to the effect of "what's the point in being authentic if you can't have fun?" Excuse my being dense for a moment, but how does being authentic inhibit fun? OK, I don't get to say "arrgh" as much as some might like, but anything else that fantasy pirates get to do I probably get to do, even in my authentic mode - plus, I get expenses paid trips all over Europe, regular paid TV work, I get employed as an historical advisor by museums, theatres, and TV companies, and I get to muck about in boats. Why? Because of my authenticity, which I find fun and rewarding in itself. I don't seek to convert anyone away from whatever it is they like to do, or however they like to do it, but please don't imagine that being authentic means you don't have fun.

[blackjohn]

I may be wrong, but as far as I can tell there are no truly "living history" piratical groups out there the way there are Rendezvous, Black Powder and Mountain man groups, though I'd love to hear from a living history buccaneer group if one exists.

Do you mean buccaneer, or pirate? Well, either way, my group tries to be a "living history" group dedicated to the 1680s-1720ish era. Fwiw, it ain't easy. I believe many look down on us as the ugly stepchild, due, possibly, to the "stigma" associated with renfest pirates. I believe they are thinking, "no one actually re-enacts pirates!"

And Faire folks, I don't mean that as an insult. I'd try to re-word, but I'm pressed for time. Gotta run!

[Rumba Rue]

Something about you British folks that always is consistant, you prefer to do history as history, and that's fine with me.

[The Doctor]

Especially with pyracy, sorting out historical truth from "traditional" truth is easier said than done. And a hell of a lot less glamorous. :)

[Deadeye]

I tell you this, mates... I believe that however you want to play a pirate is good and well as long as you are happy with it.

I also ask meself, "what would my charicter wear historically?" Deadeye is my alter-ego, i made a backstory for him, the whole works. but what he basically is is a Scottish Pyrate (their just seemed to be too many English pyrates runnin round and since I'm a Scot descendent i figured "what the hell?") so one artical i wear that most would not is a tartan sash under my belt, because no matter inside the law or without, a Scot is PROUD of that fact! I also bought a pair of bucket boots for practical reasons.. i was working around hot, and sometimes Molten, metals and didnt want me legs exposed. now that i am not, i am retiring the bucket boots and gettin some shoes and stockins...

ok enough ramblin... i guess what im tryin to say is Do what ya like, now THATS cool...

[Rummy3]

A Scott that's a Pirate! Hey Deadeye! My sister Scarlet McBayne is over in Initiation Rights tying blue ribbons onto volunteers! Join us in Wench in Training. Tyme for a ceile!

[Monterey Jack]

.

My normal GAoP period navy gear consists of a short seaman's jacket, waistcoat, striped shirt (or checked), striped petticoat breeches, hose, buckled leather shoes, neck-cloth, and a cocked hat turned with the point at the back. I spend half my time at Navy events explaining that I'm not a pirate.

Sounds similar to what I do for my Boarding Weapons Classes. Pretty much a very tame waistcoat and breeches from 1800, officer's boots, black neck stock and a simple belt with the British "snake" buckle. I find it pretty much sets the correct attitude between the instructors and the students. We get everything from folks in sweats to Hollywood pirates at the workshops but the gear we wear, plain as it is sets us apart as the instructors. (That, and we're holding all the weapons for the first half- hour!) We reserve the more "fun" costumes for other laid-back gigs.

BTW, you can see some of the shots of the boarding weapons class at maritimecombat@yahoogroups.com for anyone interested.

[Monterey Jack]

I may be wrong, but as far as I can tell there are no truly "living history" piratical groups out there the way there are Rendezvous, Black Powder and Mountain man groups, though I'd love to hear from a living history buccaneer group if one exists.

Do you mean buccaneer, or pirate? Well, either way, my group tries to be a "living history" group dedicated to the 1680s-1720ish era.

I was referring to buccaneer groups that set themselves up similar to the Rendezvous folk; dress it, live it, suffer thru it for weeks at a time, basically recreate every step along the way to living the way they actually lived. Hard to do in the states, where you don't have the climate and conditions of Hispaniola, let alone Hispaniola of 1650-1720 but someone may be attempting it.

[Hawkyns]

Well, I'm with Foxe on this one, but I don't suppose that's any surprise. Being authentic has allowed me to sail on several ships as master gunner, allowed me to command full broadsides, get into the backrooms of museums and play in lots of places marked 'private- staff only'.

The more accurate I can be, the more it gives me credentials with museum directors and the more willing they are to trust me with ships, living history villages, powder magazines and the like. If you are doing Faire, that's one thing. I tend to do maybe one or two a year and generally look like a deckhand, next to the squadrons of admirals, commodores, pirate chieftains and the like. If that's your game, have fun. For those who don't have other opportunities, it may be your best shot to dress hollywood. Faire is a different game, comprised of fantasy, flirting, playing with the punters, etc. Flirting doesn't work for me or get me the girls, as I tend to reek of gunsmoke, tobbaco smoke, salt water and bilges, but it has it's other compensations.

So I'll stay with the historically accurate. Yeah, I take flak over it. No, I don't care.

Oh, thanks for the compliment, Rhumba. As another Brit, I aprreciate it.

Hawkyns

[Monterey Jack]

Being authentic has allowed me to sail on several ships as master gunner, allowed me to command full broadsides, get into the backrooms of museums and play in lots of places marked 'private- staff only'.

If you are doing Faire, that's one thing. I tend to do maybe one or two a year and generally look like a deckhand, next to the squadrons of admirals, commodores, pirate chieftains and the like. If that's your game, have fun.

That's exactly where I find myself right now. I've been doing western martial presentations of boarding weapons for 3 years now;most recently under the new HMCA, but I got my start on the ren circuit 17 years ago. Its embedded in me to play as well.

As far as I can tell if I intend to be taken seriously at instructing I almost have to divorce myself from the "pirate" image, even though 98% of my students all show up mumbling "arrrgh."

[Gentleman of Fortune]

This is certainly a new take on the Authenticity vs Fantasy theme. I am surprised that Hurricane hassn't arrived to condemn us all to the netherworld

There are some groups that strive for authenticity.

Pirate Brethren

Merricks Privateers (this link is down now though)

Fish Broth Society

Colchester Historical Enactment Society (UK)

Bonaventure (UK)

There are probably others, if you know of any list them.

The bottom line is that Authenticity is hard and expensive. Most people don't know or care to know what is correct. And they are reluctant to let go of pirate myths that have no historical basis what so ever.

Fantasy Pirating is assumed to be more fun because there are no regulations or restrictions. Authentic pirate re-enacting is bound by the latest information available about what happened 300 years ago.

You could wear a star wars outfit and call yourself a pirate at a lot of events... who would say anything? What would they say? "My fantasy pirate outfit is more correct then your fantasy pirate outfit?????

To make matters worse, there are very few opportunities for "authentic" pirate re-enactors. Most are word of mouth, invite only affairs. There seems to be a pirate, ren or maritime festival somewhere, at least once a month, all year long. These events usually are open to anyone that calls themselves a pirate.

There is nothing wrong with folks wanting to have fun mind you. I am taking a live and let live approach myself. I just can't understand why the majority of folks seem to think that fantasy stuff is cooler than what was originally worn by pirates.

Authenticity is just a question of money, how authentic do you want to be?

GoF

[hurricane]

Ah, GoF...

Then I would have to commit myself to the netherworld as well for I am now have a foot on each side. Since my visit to Port Royal I have been working not on GAoP, but on the buccaneer period, particularly the reign of Henry Morgan. Something about touching his actual treasure that got me going and everybody in Port Royal itself kept callling me Henry. I also got inspired by my old friend Ben Cherry who is by far the best Blackbeard interpreter around.

So I now understand the other side. The history and accurate representation is amazing. Still play the loose interpretations of pirate for some gigs as that's what people many people want to hire us for but the buccaneer age fascinates me even more than GAoP.

So no damnation. Just kudos to whatever path someone chooses, as long as its piracy. We needs more pirates in this world, and fewer bureaucrats.

Hurricane