Slops

[Pirate Petee]

I love the slops.

[Black Hearted Pearl]

I appreciate this thread. As I have signed on to crew for the Royaliste at Dana Point, I was looking for more appropriate garb. My current garb consists of ladies bloomers worn without a skirt, a shirt and my corset. I have worked sailing this before on a 15ft custom square rig (seen at Ojai) along with my boots (considering we had 5 on the boat, the boots saved my knees). However, the lace on the bloomers downplays my sailing capabilities. Now I have time to make myself some proper slops for Dana Point.

[Patrick Hand]

I love the slops.

simple pattern.... like I typed,,,,, use that French fly breeches patten form Gof"s page,,, but make the legs much wider...... (OK not heming the bottem of them ain't period... but it looks cool... and the same wit..... all the patches onth' butt......) ( I have a problem wit.... being both a "play " Pyrate,,,,, and trying to do it period......)

If yer interested in the pattern... I can re-draw it out an send it to ye.........

[Demon Cat]

I'd be interested in that, ifn its not too much trouble

[blackjohn]

I love the slops.

I'm curious Petee, did you try using the pirated pattern I sent?

If so, did it work?

[Fox]

Actually Patrick, patches on the butt are probably dead right. In the Musuem of London there is a surviving seaman's outfit from the mid 17th century. One of the buttocks of the breeches is almost entirely worn through, but the other side is fine. The current theory is that he may have been a helmsman (he was a fat bugger so he certainly wasn't a topman!) and the wearing was produced by his leaning on the tiller on one side.

So, patch one side of the butt.

[Pirate Petee]

I love the slops.

I'm curious Petee, did you try using the pirated pattern I sent?

If so, did it work?

I started the waistcoat first since I thought it to be the hardest to do and get it out of the way, I'm almost done. I just have to do the pockets, button holes and buttons. I'm going to get the fabric for the slops wednesday and start then. Thank you again Black John, your a life saver. I'll post pics when I'm done.

[blackjohn]

Glad to be able to lend a hand. One caveat with those... I was looking over the pattern and I noticed they are fall fronts, which are technically a little too late for use in the Golden Age of Piracy. But (a big baggy but), it should be pretty easy to modify them.

[Patrick Hand]

I was looking over the pattern and I noticed they are fall fronts,

Yah... Thats why I like French Fly breeches pattern on GoF's page...........

http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/images/v...chespattern.jpg

[lorien_stormfeather]

Me mate just finushed hand sewing his slops from the Kannik's Korner pattern (available from Townsend). A protective garment worn by sailors fishermen farmers and laborers. Pattern includes sizes 32 through 52. All sizes are included in one envelope. $14.00.

The pattern has a fly, and optional pleating , to make true "petticoat breeches" or a flat front.

I'd say the pattern was worth the money...

BTW I found fustian (linen and flax blend) in a natural color at Joanne Fabrics in the upolstery section. Only $6.99 a yard (very wide fabric) and with 40% off coupon it is a steal.

I'll post pictures later.

[Pirate Petee]

Just an update, they are coming along nicely.

[Gentleman Jeff]

Patrick,

Those slops with the patches and ragged edges are awesome! Great job!

[Pirate Petee]

Thank you Black John, the slops turned out excellent. Ifin there be anything I can do for ya in my power let me know.

[blackjohn]

Always glad to be of service, sir, always glad says I. In return, all I ask is someday when we meet, we shake hands like ol' shipmates and ye buys me a rum.

[Monterey Jack]

The Kannik's pattern says, "protective garment". Now does that imply it was worn over another pair of breeches, or it was designed just to protect yer legs, period? I'm having linen ones made for me by Townsend and need to know for sure whether I should get em to fit over another article o clothing.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

OK

lets see pictures of your slops then!

GoF

[Fox]

The question of them being worn over other garments is one that hasn't really been settled. (Other historians generally believe that it HAS been settled and that slops and petticoat breeches were worn over other breeches - but I'm not convinced).

There are a number of descriptions of runaway slaves wearing heavy duty slops over their breeches as a protective garment, and there are also a handful of pictures (not many mind) that show petticoat breeches being being worn over what look like normal breeches by seamen. These two things constitute most of the evidence in favour of slops being like overalls.

Against the first point I say runaway slaves were not seamen. Their social background was different and their work was very different - so there's no real reason to suppose that slaves and seamen did things for the same reason.

Against the second: there's just no way of telling exactly what is shown as being worn in the pictures. IMHO it is likely that at least some of them show not breeches, but drawers. We know for a fact that seamen wore drawers, and there's no question that if drawers were being worn under slops they would peek out the bottom from time to time, so why invent unsatisfactory reasons for them to be breeches?

In addition, I would add that aboard ship you want as few layers of clothing as possible. Apart from the obvious restriction of movement and the sheer weight of wet fabric in poor weather, can you imagine the heat of wearing three layers in the Caribbean?

In terms of being a protective layer for seamen: it doesn't make sense. We know they sometimes wore something (breeches/drawers) under their petticoat breeches and slops because we can see them in the pictures right? In that case they don't work. If the garment that you're trying to protect sticks out from underneath the over-layer then it will get dirty, so what's the point. Either make the protective garment bigger, or just wear the working layer without the other stuff underneath. I believe that the garments shown being worn by seamen were a sustitute for breeches, which sometimes (but probably not always) had drawers underneath, and the garments described as being worn by slaves were probably slightly different, longer articles.

In short, I really think it's up to you whether to wear your slops over breeches or not. I don't think you should, but I'm in a minority. In the end I don't think the evidence is conclusive enough, so I suggest making your decision on what you'd find comfortable.

[Monterey Jack]

Thank ye, Foxe;

Wasn't really looking forward to extra layers m'self, so will likely get em to be a sub for breeches.

[Capt. Lazarus Gage]

Tryin to find the perfect thing is a pain.

[Black Hearted Pearl]

bump for easier referencing by ME.

[Deadeye]

The question of them being worn over other garments is one that hasn't really been settled. (Other historians generally believe that it HAS been settled and that slops and petticoat breeches were worn over other breeches - but I'm not convinced).

I agree with Foxe, mates. I be a'wonderin if "protective garment" means simply somthin to wear in the stead of breeches, so theys could get dirty, and yer breeches, bein kept in yer ditty bag, be nice and clean...

by the by, anyone know of some good, premade slops fer sale? not much of a seamster, meself

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Egad... that is a question. I am kind of a freak about things and very particular. Slops are probably one of the easiest items to make. Maybe you could sweet talk a tailor/seamstress (mom, wife, girlfriend, buddy, dad, brother etc) into making one for you.

I would search for linen/hemp/fustian. Most commercially available slops are going to be cotton machine stitched. If that is ok with you go for it.

You can PM me for folks who will make them in their spare time. But time IS money.

GoF

[Deadeye]

I would search for linen/hemp/fustian. Most commercially available slops are going to be cotton machine stitched. If that is ok with you go for it.

A'right,, wel ol' Deadeye were never afear'd of a new challenge, so methinks its time to get a needle and thread and have at 'er. Would light weight salicloth be suitable? I know at times sailors would make articals from old sails. if not, i know where i can find Linen. Wish me luck mates....

*Cue inspirational music*

[Scarlet McBayne]

Ahoy there...Tall, dark and hansom ( dona be telling yer lady friend that I said that. I dona fancy me throat slit by the fair damsel ) It was a grand time at Tall Ships and I was very pleased to see ye both there, sorry I was not to see ye on Sunday though. I look forward to seeing and drinkin with you and Jessica-Rabbit ( heehee ) at Ojai if ye be going? Til then....

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Yes now that is the question too...

I personally think that sail cloth would be just about the best thing to make slops from as old sail cloth would have been plentiful as would the sailors time so the two go together to make slops....

The sticky wicket is that we need a special "kind" of sail cloth which isn't made anymore.

Specifically

"Great care has to be exercised in the manufacture of canvas for the British Admiralty. The yarns must be made wholly from long flax, well and evenly spun, and properly twisted. They must also be free from blacks, and be twice boiled in order to remove all injurious matter. From the ,grey state to the cleaned state the yarns must lose 10% of weight, and no deleterious substance whatever must be used in any stage. The mill washing and first boiling reduce the weight about 8%, while about 2% is removed during the second boiling. Finally, the yarn is thoroughly ~washed to remove all traces of alkali. The successive processes which the yarn is subjected to remove all impurities, and leave the yarn in the best condition for weaving. Canvas is made in sixteen different qualities: the heaviest is No. oooo,then follow Nos. 000, 00, 0, I, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, II and 12. Of these sixteen varieties Nos. I to 8 are mostly in use. Nos. 1, 2, 4, 6 and 7 are used for royal navy canvas, and Nos. 4 and 6 for the merchant navy. The canvas for the Admiralty is 24 in. wide, and the pieces, termed bolts, should be as nearly as practicable 40 yds. of legal measure in length, and to be completely manufacturedparticular attention being given. to the weaving; the selvages to be evenly and well manufactured, the thrum to be left on each end of the bOlt, and to be made as nearly as possible in the proportion of weights given below."

So says the British Admiralty

Even our heaviest modern linen would not be considered "heavy" by Navy standards. Not only that, since traditional sails mildew, they are not being made anymore. I have heard that someone a while back had some made to order, and I think that he had a # 10 made....

Anyway, Hemp canvas would be cool too. IF you go to my site, under sources, there should be some links to hemp, linen, fustian etc...

Good luck

GoF