Gentleman of Fortune Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 I have a few original Late 17th and Early 18th pewter/brass buttons. They are really tiny compared to what we "think" button size should be. It seems to me that later buttons (rev and F&I period) buttons are larger, but since that is what most suttlers are carrying, that is what pirate re-enactors are wearing. I know that there are "ranges" of buttons size, but what would the most common size for sailors? Any takers? Most of mine range from about 1/2 inch to about 5/8ths inch. GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted August 6, 2005 Share Posted August 6, 2005 My waistcoat buttons are about 1/2 inch. My shirt collar/cuff buttons are tiny, only 1/4". I hand carved them from Mahogany, as I figured it's something a GAOP pirate would have had plenty of access to due to all the logging they did. Same thing for my slops buttons, but they are bigger, about 3/4". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMike Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I just found a picture from a 1715 shipwreck with an archaeological line drawing of a button. It is quite fancy and is about 1 inch in diameter. Will forward it to you via e-mail. Am curious what was found on the Whydah wreck regarding buttons. Yours, Mike Pirates of Massacre Island http://www.geocities.com/flpyrate/index.html Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 I have a handful of pictures in the collection which show seemingly large buttons, and a number which show pretty small ones. Of particular interest are these two which both show quite different sized buttons in the same picture. From the title page of "The Sea-Gunner" 1692. "The British Hercules" 1737 Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 The button you mention Mike, is being referred to as a "cloak button" Here is a to a picture of it. http://www.imacdigest.com/2001rep/images/0138.jpg Cloak buttons are generally larger than regular buttons, and this one is about 1". There is an excellent site regarding Spanish buttons from the Americas in the 1600-1800s here Spanish Military Buttons and the site gives some rough sizes of some buttons as ...and seen in coat (24-25mm), waistcoat/vest (20-21mm), and gaiter (16-17mm) sizes Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 Plus you have to figure that buttons were constantly coming off, getting lost, breaking off, etc...at sea a sailor would make replacements with whatever was at hand. Spare wood, hard cheese, bone, etc...and there had to be a huge range of sizes and looks from these handmade on-the-fly jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMike Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 GOF, Thanks, the artifacts.org site button I've seen before (e-mailed link to you earlier via Pyracy.com). Many of the specimens were recovered close by. I've found some interesting pictures of historical clothing and buttons on the following websites- The Costumers Manifesto Victoria and Albert Museum L'Age d'Or website Artcyclopedia.com Fox's websites (of course!) I don't have the Whydah artifacts list handy, will run to library tomorrow and see if they have anything on buttons. Yours, &c. Mike Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted August 7, 2005 Author Share Posted August 7, 2005 Mike If you have access to more of the Wydah's finds... could you check out the silver buckles that they found and see if there is any more info on these? They found a lot of buckles that I had heard were referred to as knee buckles (which I found odd becuase there was a significant number found). I had often wondered if these may have been shoe buckles or ? Thanks for all the research though! GoF Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 That's it Josh! I'm gonna make me some cheese buttons! Can we decide on the correct size before I start? Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMike Posted August 7, 2005 Share Posted August 7, 2005 With any luck Corsair2K3 will read our posts and answer any inquiries... Probably someone knowledgeable on button sizes would be Kass (and undoubtably a few others who have reconstructed GAOP clothing). None of the slops contracts mention button sizes, unfortunately. Looked over the Henrietta Marie website, no buttons, but lots of neat artifacts- http://www.melfisher.org/henriettamarie/drawings.htm Perhaps Foxe can review some of those English clothing contracts and provide some input... Yours, &c. Mike Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Foxe, that would be SO cool if you made cheese buttons. Send pics!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 I've got three different types of cheese maturing to a sufficient hardness as I type, cut into different thicknesses to see what works best. "Experimental archaeology" I calls it... Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Blydes Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Reminds me of the BBC TV series Lovejoy.... "Ah yes... late Saxon.... late last week" William Blydes I don't get lost, I EXPLORE! Adventures on the High Seas (refitted and back on station!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMike Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Found some button sizes on at least one 1687 era coat- http://www.kipar.org/military-history/kirk...orms_style.html "The outer shell was made of scarlet broadcloth, lined with sea-green baize (a coarse felt-like wool) or serge (a sturdy woollen twill), and cut from four panels. It was a rather straight, loose kneelength cut with little definition at the waist. The sleeves were turned backed to reveal the lining. The coats had pewter buttons from neck to hem, but were commonly unbuttoned below the waist for ease of movement on the march and in the field. Buttons should be about 5/8 - 3/4" (15-18mm) in diameter, at least 24 down the front, 7 on the rear vent, 5 on each sleeve, and 5 on each pocket. " Speaking of Whydah buttons, am running to the library now... Yours, &c. Mike Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMike Posted August 12, 2005 Share Posted August 12, 2005 Cliffords "Expedition Whydah" ISBN 0-06-01923291 has drawings of many artifacts recovered from the wreck. The buttons illustrated on page 176 are quite fancy (they include brass buttons and silver collar studs). Thirty-five were recovered from the wreck, according to the archaelogical manifest in "The Pirate Prince" (also by Clifford). The best I can describe one type of button is a fancy filigree, something similar is pictured on page 50 in the September 1990 National Geographic ("Track of the Manila Galleons, Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion"). It bears some resemblance to those those pictured in the "Ornately Embellished Stud-Shanked Buttons" section listed here- http://www.artifacts.org/Mission.htm Yours, &c. Mike Try these for starters- "A General History of the Pyrates" edited by Manuel Schonhorn, "Captured by Pirates" by John Richard Stephens, and "The Buccaneers of America" by Alexander Exquemelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Hand Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 Dang... me 2 cent worth..... From what I can figure..... buttons were realy small.... ( see the link about Spanish artifacts......) offa Gof's page .. But wern't buttons a "show: of afflunce........ (kinda lik the guy back in the 80's with the bag of coke...... showin off.......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaRed Posted August 13, 2005 Share Posted August 13, 2005 True that nice, high quality buttons were a show of wealth. Literally 18th century Bling. All the more reason pirates would covet them! And in hard times, you still needed to keep your cuffs/coats buttoned, so enter the proverbial wood, bone, cheese, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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