Fencing Equipment

[blackjohn]

Ahoy shipmates...

My group often talks about buying fencing equipment and having after hours no-holds barred fighting competitions. I'm inclined to agree with them. My questions to those in the know:

What do you find to be the safest yet most accurate blades?

What do you recommend for masks?

Where do you buy them?

Again, as I've said, on our mail list we've talked about the ins and outs of this before. Before I lay any money down, I'm looking for even more opinions.

Thanks!

[Gentleman of Fortune]

John

When I lived in England, I was a fairly active fencer and ordered stuff for me and my group via http://www.triplette.com/ (EVERYTHING in the UK is expensive!)

This company had good prices and quick delivery.

I wouldn't know what to reccomend for pirate sword fighting though....

gof

[Lady Seahawke]

The safest ummm no edge, no tip...made of plastic

the most accurate, an sober olympic gold medal winner...

Sorry couldn't help it. ok, if'n you be interested in a noth'n held back, I hope ye scallywags have had some major training in the arts...or tis padded every inch of yer body... cause trouble I see brew'n.

'nd to get a good fit with yer equipment I twould also recommend ye find'n a place where ye could actually hold the blade in yer hand.

Because the feel of it is mighty important. It needs to balance in yer hand properly. And that is something you cannot find out through the web. You might get use to whatever is sent, but if you are doing anytype of challenge...the best is that which becomes an extension to you.

Also, fencing equipment is different then boarding weapons. So, check wit the others and see if'n ye want to stipulate what type of blades ye twill be using befer suching to acquire. Cause when I think of fencing I tend to think of foils...espee etc, when I think of pirate I tend to think short saber ie cutlass.

[Lady Seahawke]

OH another thing...just a thought...can't you smell the cobwebs burning...sigh

ok, even with an anything goes...there are still rules to be had.

because me if'n someone tis say'n there be a challenge and anything goes wit no rules whatsoever....well...according to ta prize...

Be'n a pirate and all I could see meself be'n armed wit m'whip and daggers.

m'cutlass in one hand 'nd m'dagger or whip in ta other. Or any number of possibilities...and if'n ye say cheat I twould be remind'n ye

PIRATE.

Naw seriously get ta rules luv..there needs to be limits set...

don't want noth'n to be happ'n to ye.

[Cap'n Pete Straw]

I always bought all my gear from Santelli (http://www.santelli.com/), but they seem to have gone under. Their website is gone, and I could not be more disappointed about it.

Blade Fencing is also supposed to be really good, with reasonable prices, but I have not yet done business with them -- they come highly regarded by other fencers with whom I have spoken.

[Captain Jim-sib]

Got a pair of Foils if'n ye need.

[Red-Handed Jill]

American Fencing Supply in San Francisco is very good.

Their site

[Bilgemunky]

I would echo Gentleman of Fortune's Triplette recommendation. Their stuff is well made and reasonably priced, but as a bonus they have a number of items that have a proper feel to them - you can order a basic foil with a leather wrapped hardwood grip, for example. Many foils these days are rubber wrapped, or even worse they have those new ergonomic handles - can't feel piratey wielding one of those monstrocities!

Also check out Triplette's Theatrical Equipment section - they carry some gorgeous stuff!

[Bully MacGraw]

Aye Capt. Black John

I have two things for you.

Check out Poppingjays http://www.popinj.com/

They make small swords and cutless for fencing. THese are more in your period.

Now what about single stick?

http://ejmas.com/jmanly/articles/2002/jman...t_wolf_0202.htm

http://www.woodenswords.com/WMA/singlest.htm

Good luck mate!

[Hawkyns]

Where to start? Well, no holds barred says to me that you want more than fencing blades. Foils, epees, and sabres break when subjected to stresses that they weren't designed for, and they leave nassssty pointy sharp bits. American Fencing supply has double canelure blades that work for some things, though they tend to chew edges pretty quick. Starfire was making a series of blades that was working well for combat, but I don't know if they still are. There's Armour Class in Scotland- these are the best of the best, but you'll pay and you'll wait.

Masks are another story. USFA rated masks are designed to stop a 25kilo thrust. A stiff blade with an adult weight moving behind it is far more than that. They're OK for early training and slow work, but if you're going full speed full contact, they will give you a false sense of security. My crew prefers to go without masks and trains to avoid head and neck shots. You will learn to void properly and not depend on the mask to protect you.

I wouldn't worry about padding. A 4oz leather jerkin, good cowhide gauntlets, and maybe some heavy cuffs to protect the wrist bones. If you do decide to go with head shots, then a steel gorget to protect the soft part of the throat and the back of the neck is a good idea.

It's like any martial art. the more armour you have, the more you rely on it and the less you consider your technique. Pain is a great teacher. Just don't take it to the point of disabling.

Hawkyns

[William Blydes]

My Cavalier re-enactment group uses Triplette for the many supplies (especially the 3 weapon mask) and some blades (Zamerano rapier blade is good for sidesword/cutting play and the flexidagger for daggers).

We use Darkwood armouries for our main blades.

Darkwood

These weapons need to be tipped for safety. As well as participants wearing the protective clothing. We have the masks and gorgets as well.

You may want to start with thrust only to begin with. The cutting play can get real dangerous with people who do not have the basics. You will need more armour (i.e. back of the head) and bags of control.

[blackjohn]

Thanks for the replies. I should've been more specific. I'll try again.

My group is largely composed of re-enactors with 20 years of experience. Many of them, including myself, did or still do, medieval re-enacting, with armor of varying sorts.

We also have alot of experience with "stage" combat.

Last year we kicked around the idea of doing something that I believe is done in ECW groups. For lack of a better term, I'll call it full contact fencing. I guess what I'm really looking for is tips on ARMA style combat. But I'm too cheap to join them.

[blackjohn]

Masks are another story. USFA rated masks are designed to stop a 25kilo thrust. A stiff blade with an adult weight moving behind it is far more than that. They're OK for early training and slow work, but if you're going full speed full contact, they will give you a false sense of security.

Thanks Hawkyns, I've never heard that before. Is there such a thing as a blade that looks (relatively) period correct, but is flexi enough that it won't go through a mask??? What about schlager blades? I suppose what I'm looking for is something that looks like a smallsword, but acts like a foil. Does such a creature exist?

[blackjohn]

Check out Poppingjays http://www.popinj.com/

They make small swords and cutless for fencing. THese are more in your period.

Thanks! Somehow, I managed to miss this post. I believe they have exatcly what I'm looking for!!!

[Monterey Jack]

'Scuse me while I plug Popinjays shamelessly; the cutlasses you see on the website as well as a couple of the heavier sabres he shows were all made fer me. To date I have ten of his pieces, four of which I designed.

Adam is great to work with and can work from your designs or alter items you send him. I just sent him two Scots basket hilts that were worthless blade-wise and he put light, wide cutlass blades on them for me. They work like a charm!

Also Scott Wilson from Darkwood is starting to turn out hangers and cutlasses that are extremely historically accurate.

Back to lurkin below decks........

[Paisley]

i love my schlager blade...thats what i learned on, and what ive purchaced afterward....i only wish i had the diamond as opposed to the oval blade...the diamond is a little more showy on stage..

as for starfire...they are still around...i know several peeps that have them. heard good & bad....mostly is that they are very heavy!

so you guys actually want to contact each other with blades huh??? ummmm interesting...(not knowing the whole story, and dont mean to insult)...please tell me ya'll have had some formal training.

[Monterey Jack]

Aye, that always sticks in my mind as well; only because after 17 years of fighting and training in both stage combat and historical swordplay, they really drill that into you: learn how its used before you walk out onto the stage or into the "street"....or in our case, onto the deck.

With so many places out there now offering to teach its nearly impossible not to find a credible instructor. Of course one must always watch out for the few who, simply because they haven't been hurt yet figure they know how to teach correctly.

Sorry, again there's no offense intended here, just a big-arse soapbox of mine.

[Capt. Lazarus Gage]

Sounds fun.