Blackbeard's nursery rhyme ?

[Cut-throat]

Ever hear the nursery rhyme that goes, " Sing a song of six-pence/ a pocket full of rye " ? Ever wonder what it really means ? I came upon this here little tid bit as I was doin some o me research. I hope ye all like it as much as I did...Damn, can't stop singin it now.......(check it out mateys) - http://www.snopes.com/lost/sixpence.htm

[TortugaWench]

Well read, sir. Very interesting find indeed- and something that will most likely stick with ye fer many years to come. (The only ryhme I know of having been created under true afflictions is Ring around the Roses- though it has nothing to do with pirates, its quite an intriguing story in itself)

-TW

[Cut-throat]

Wasn't Ring Around the Rosies about the Black Plague ? Interestin indeed !

[lady snow]

yes, it was. a lot of nursery rhymes have their origins in something pertaining to life of the era. i also have a book - the real 12 days of christmas - that details the origins of the christmas carol.

there's seems to be a controversyin - sing a song of sixpence. snopes has it as blackbeard's recruiting poster and 'mostly true stories: urban legends revealed' says that it isn't so. okay - do we have a tie breaker?

[Cut-throat]

Good catch, me lady. I'd like to see how this one pans out. Lemme see if'n I can find somethin on it.

[Cut-throat]

Neither one seems to back up their claims with anything but opinion...but here be the other side o the issue ye mentioned.

http://www.snopes.com/humor/mediagoofs/sixpence.asp

[Fox]

I believe the first time the Blackbeard/Sing-a-song-of-sixpence tale appeared on the net the site which produced it had a page 2 which read something like "Don't believe a word of this, we made it up to prove how easy it is to fool people..."

Gimme time and I'll remember the original site, but it ain't true.

[Fox]

The tie breaker is that the site I was thinking of was Snopes who admit that the whole thing was an exercise in creative writing and proving that no source is infallible. See this page of their website.

[Cut-throat]

Thanks for the info, Foxe. It be a shame though, it be a pretty interestin tale all the same. I was sort of disappointed that it isn't true. An I still can't get that damn song out o me head. The funny thing about the whole topic be that when I was searchin the net about it, there be tens o hundreds o sites that claim it be true. They don't back it up with anything, but they be quite sure o their own false claims....Have to admit that it be the first that I ever heard o such a thing, but I be glad for this forum to get to the bottom of it. Thanks again.

[Cire]

It struck me as nonsense the moment I clapped eyes on it. I can't believe so many websites claim it as true without at least trying to test the integrity....

[tishsparrow]

well, there goes that english class essay... really hope the teacher didnt read this...

[lady snow]

i'm forever checking tales out at snopes.com. i have a personal bookmark for it on my browser.

[Cut-throat]

How funny, I just happened to bookmark it me'self.

[Fox]

So often we read on bulletin boards and news-groups "I read on this website that... so it must be true", drives me insane! The trouble is that so many websites simply plagiarise from others - mistakes and all.

Books are a little better because in theory you need more integrity to get properly published, whereas anyone is free to web-publish. In practical terms though there is also a lot of tripe perpetuated and regurgitated from one book to the next (see my opinions on pirate flags for example).

[Captain Jacob Badger]

Gossip....an' Pyracy lives.....in the modern myth......... lol

[Cut-throat]

I understand your frustration Foxe. I have only just begun to educate myself on the life and time of pirates and already many of my deeply rooted preconcieved notions have been dispelled in a matter of days. The only book of piracy I have in my personal library is Under the Black Flag by David Cordingly. But in your thread about John Quelch, you mention a discrepency within Under the Black Flag. How accurate is Cordingly ? I can't help but wonder....Ugh, what a headache !

So where can a newbie enthusiast begin ? Can you recommend any books worth searching for ?

[JoshuaRed]

"Between The Devil And The Deep Blue Sea" by Marcus Rediker

"Captain Kidd and the War Against The Pirates" by Robert Ritchie

These, plus period writings by Dampier, Woodes Rogers and Silas Told REALLY helped clear the cobwebs of myth for me, in addition to Cordingly of course. :)

[Captain Jacob Badger]

Hussah!.....for those who were remembered....an' writen about...........tankards up fer those who weren't....

[TortugaWench]

You mean the story isn't true after-all?!?! *faints* Damn... so intriguing. After hearing this I'd be worried that the 'Ring-around-the Roses' ryhme too isn't true, but I've almost definite proof it is since a place here in Nashville called the Adventure Science Center sports a fairly large replica of the Paris Catacombs in which numerous bodies of those killed by the Bubonic Plague are buried. (Sadly, the site does not offer any info or images of any kind on this exhibit )

[lady snow]

i have the 'annotated mother goose' and as soon as i locate it, i will look that up.

[Captain Jacob Badger]

Ring -a-ring ....is well true.....there are still 'mounds'...that peeps still won't dig up cos' o that very, reason...

[TortugaWench]

I wonder what it would be like to actually visit the original place of the catacombs- freaky yet cool at the same time, me thinks. According to the exhibit I visited last month (the Catacombs Replica at ASC) there was an old man (unknown name I think it said) who was a survivor of the plague- he dressed in a long overcoat, a hat and wore a bird image mask (complete with beady eyes and long beak) It was said that he placed the petals of roses and posies in the mask's beak to ward off the negativity of the Bubonic Plague.

Also featured was the fact, that the spread of the plague was futher advanced due to 'nobility'; they believed that the plague only affected the lower income/houses of their society and therefore snubbed most (because rats infested the streets more in the run-down areas of Paris) and once wind caught that fleas had something to do with it, they started gathering and killing all the dogs and cats within the city, thus allowing the growth in rat population.

Thats what ye call ironic- killing the one thing that could have saved the majority of them. *shakes head*

[Cut-throat]

Thankee kindly JoshuaRed, I'll definately be hntin these down as soon as possible. Once again, grammercy, I really appreciate the help.

I agree with Badger. I took a college history class a while back, A survey of British History, an we touched on the subject a bit. The professor was in agreeance that the rhyme was attributed to the Plague. But after all the notions that have been shattered for me lately, anything be possible. ( Oops, guess we simul posted Tortuga, sorry )

[Fox]

Cordingly is generally pretty good, certainly he's well respected, and he does have a pretty good list of primary sources (the ONLY criterion for being classed as a good historian in my book). In fact, it's quite gratifying and smug-making to have found such a clear hole in his research.

The bird mask was quite common wear for doctors and surgeons in time of plague, there are quite a number of pictures of English doctors from the 1660s wearing them.

I ought to point out (*reaches for responsible hat*) that the fact that various plagues happened doesn't mean that the nursery rhyme is anything to do with them, certainly the existence of the plague in Frnace probably has very little bearing on an English rhyme. On the other hand the association between the plague and the rhyme goes back a long way and certainly pre-dates the modern fad for making everything fit nicely.

[Cascabel]

I've heard of this "Pirate Recruiting Story" quite a bit, and never thought that it sounded at all like reality.

Having been around GENUINE nefarious characters quite a bit myself, I know that they could not be bothered with such foolishness. Such things are handled by quietly passing the word in private to trusted individuals today, and I suspect that has been the way it was handled for centuries. The story just doesn't ring true !!!!!

>>>>> Cascabel