Food Food WHat are they With out Food ?

[Seacutter]

Little help with a simple subject with a million answers.

Wanting to find some recipts for the menus of ship and port food 1790-1810. I have Scotish Duff, Hard tack, and Salt Meat. I know Scurvey was rampent in this time but to make is even harder I am looking around for certain areas Southhampton, England Jamaica, and, New Orleans.

[Capt. Morgan]

There is a book called "Lobscouse and Spotted Dog" that is all shipboard recipes from the era you are looking for... based on the menus discussed in the Aubrey / Maturin novels (Master and Commander).

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I am confused... are you asking if anyone has access to historical receipts (bills paid for goods received)…

Or are you asking if anyone has any historical recipes (instructions for making) for food items eaten aboard ship.

Not trying to ding you on spelling errors as either one is a good question.

GoF

[PirateQueen]

GoF:

Ain't a spelling error.

"Receipt" is an old way of saying "recipe," not much used nowadays, but quite common in the 19th century and earlier.

[Fox]

I think the book you really need to get hold of is "The Cottage Economy" by William Cobbett. It was originally published in 1821-2, and Cobbett lived at Botley in Hampshire, which is about two thirds of the way between Portsmouth and Southampton.

If you want to know about food in Southampton in the early 19th century there is absolutely no better source. It's available from Amazon.

Personally I LOVE Lardy cake, which I am informed is a Hampshire recipe. No idea how you make it I'm afraid but the way you eat it is to stick it in the oven for 10 minutes til it goes all sticky then scoff down the whole thing until you think you're going to barf, then sit back in a comfy chair with a huge contented smile and feel yourself getting fatter...

If it's not a rude question may I enquire what the interest with Southampton is? I live about 16 miles away and the wench is at Uni there.

[Seacutter]

In addition, the Masters Degrees come in handy for the forum. The spelling.......well I used old terms, and said FOOD. My stepsister is a technical writer for University of Memphis, and you know what, she is not fun to hang out with either. Hit her with some pirate slang and she starts twitching.

Thanks for the advice, I am writing a piece about a ship, which starts in Southampton, England, and ends up with misfortune at the hands of those seeking forbidden treasure. I am also trying to pull off some live action events for fun and charity to go along with it. Making the story, characters, props, food, costumes, and weapons has been overwhelming. I had a big crew to start and I am sure everybody knows how the lazy, and lame drift away at prospects of work. Jumping ship has been the way of things. Other project have had the same results and done extremely well in the end. Exercising this idea is my only hobby, work, past time, and, activity. It has become a challenge that has taken on a life on its’ own. Making props so far has yielded: Real Stocks, double stocks, hanging cage, knifes, backdrops, belts, Tomahawks, costumes, mannequins, bodies, chest, barrels, crates, dyed rope, chains, shrews fiddle, shell necklaces, bamboo cups, coconut cups, captains log book, and still working. Going to be great time live action, or the most authentic pirate room in three states.

The muddy river brings no pirates to the area, and here I sit planning for the future by dwelling in the past. Good thing I have a great job or I would be walking the beaches around Cape Horn.

John

[corsair2k3]

Not much help for your problem, but Dampier is always talking about he and his pals cooked assorted critters and stuff they came across.

Doughboys might work for your event. And boiled pease is certainly doable.

The Corsair

www.whydah.com

Who is going to have some of his famous Fudge Pie as a light snack...

[Seacutter]

Just ordered the suggested books. I'll let you know how it turn out.

John Seacutter

[Gentleman of Fortune]

even so....

as I said in my first post, EITHER way it is an interesting question.

I imagine that cargo manifests survive for what goods were being commercially transported, but It would be interesting to see receipts for consumables used by the ship. Did they make their own Scotish Duff, Hard tack, and Salt Meat on board ship? If it was prepared before hand it had to be bought in quantity and stored aboard ship….

It would be nice to see the receipts, would it not?

GoF

[Seacutter]

I have read that all items on board where of the smallest quantity possible in order to cut cost and increase load availability. If I could remember where I read it, I would post the book that tells of the minimum requirements or food standard per man per day. It was unbelievable, a great LA Diet for sure. The bills of lading or shipping papers of the time had to be something indeed. Politics having there hand in the cookie jar and port fees taxes and tariffs no telling what garbage was written in to the papers. Just think about the crew roster it self, scurvy taking out as many as 20-30 men a trip. The British lost over 100,000 men in a year to illness aboard shipping routes, that hard to believe.

John Seacutter

[Fox]

The British lost over 100,000 men in a year to illness aboard shipping routes, that hard to believe.

Almost impossible to believe I'd say! May I enquire as to the source for that statement and to what period it pertains?

In the 20 year period between 1795 and 1815, for only 5 years was the strength of the Royal Navy less than 100,000 men - the lowest point was 1803 when 67,148 men were mustered, while at the other end of the scale 147,087 men were mustered in 1813. Even when the men in the merchant service are taken into account to suggest that 100,000 men died of disease p.a. would mean that Britain couldn't possibly hope to maintain its population of seamen. Surely it must be a misprint?

Source for the numbers is Rodger, Command of the Ocean p. 639.

[Seacutter]

It was so hard to believe it was not true. I stand corrected it was from years 1792-1815 it was out of 176,000 men 42000 were lost to desertion and 81% of 104,000 casualties from disease. That is from Derek Lundy (The way of a ship.) Reading too much and the numbers getting hung in the jibs. Thanks for catching that, so I did not keep passing the scuttlebutt.

John

[Seacutter]

I am still learning and finding that the more I learn the harder, it is to see the truth. There are so many variations, in food, clothing, tactics, and politics. It is like trying to pin point one gangs style, clothing, diet, and “MO’S”. Finding easier to find out the goods one group and stay with it. I am going to leave the pirates to another day. British Navy 1790-1814 and keelboats of North American Rivers is now my only focus. What a hobbie!

[Patrick Hand]

but Dampier is always talking about he and his pals cooked assorted critters and stuff

Yah... and lots of yams... potatoes... and plantains (?) (bananna kinda thing)

I haven't found anything about them eating bouccan yet.... (but just starting to read his stuff (online.... one page at a time....)(I got to check out Amizon.com........)

[Seacutter]

I have a couple of books coming so I let you know how they help me pretty soon.