In Defense of the Authenticity Nazis

[Nigel]

Let's face it once and for all-

Unless you actually live on a sailing ship (full time!)

Unless you actually steal from other sailing ships

Unless the Navy has a warrant out for your arrest

If you have never killed anyone

If you use a microwave

If you drive a car

If you have a phone

If you smoke manufactured cigarettes

If you watch POTC, Hook, or even Captain Blood on your VHS or DVD player (no matter how much you love the movie)

If you were born in a century that starts with a "19"...

I have news for you:

You are not a real pirate.

We are all playing the part of pirates from a past century in a 21st century world. None of us are really pirates. We are actors. Actors of different sorts, yes, but actors nonetheless. What we wear is, in actuality, costumes. Not uniforms.

In essence, we are all posers. I know it's hard to hear, but hey, the truth can be that way.

I remember a quote from my Ren Faire days:

"It is the fantasy of adventure that we are bringing back, not the plague."

Go out there, have some fun. Share your ideas with yor mates on how to make it more enjoyable for everybody. Stare in awe at those who have put time, money, love, and effort into making their costumes beautiful, authentic, fantastical, outrageous, whatever.

Even though I am not personally overly concerned with being authentic, I do marvel at the wonderful costumes and rich historical knowledge of my fellow pirates. People who love what they do and put their heart into it are to be respected and admired. They enrich my experience as a pirate.

One person's costume is not "better" than another. If you don't like it, fine. Let's see what you're really made of, mister (or miss) "more authentic pirate than thou"..... Go tell the biker gang with the skull & crossbones on their bandanas that they are not "period"; chastise them for being a bunch of posers, and I'll salute your remains as I pass them on the side of the road.

Or try this one on for size: Go join the real modern day pirates in Malaysia. Let's see what they have to say about being "authentic".

Remeber, have fun!! If not, what is the point?

[Desert Pyrate]

Aye! I concur with Nigel one hundred percent. 'sides... actin' be loads of fun.

[Deacon Frye]

Never mind.

(Edited, as I posted a bit too quickly.)

[CaptRehab]

As a Revolutionary War Re-enactor I have seen all the same arguments before. Some people wanted to show up for a battle in cutoff polyester pants and shoes with buckles tied into the laces. I was one of the first to revert to the old straight lasted shoes, which by the way are murder until you stand in the mud for a couple of hours then march several miles in the wet shoes. I think as Rev War re-enactors we have found a working truce between the "thread counters" and those who don't want to bother upgrading thier kit. We have adopted the 10 foot rule. If what you see from 10 feet away looks authentic, then it passes muster. A lot of people have done research to guide us in how we dress and behave, but they realize that there is a lot they don't know.

You have to ask "What is the purpose of this re-enactment" If it is a bunch of people out to have fun, and not publicizing the event as a historical re-enactment, who cares how authentic it is? On the otherhand if you are organizing a re-enacment to educate the public and portray a bit of history, you should strive for authenticity to the best of your ability, and don't hesitate to inform the public about what you know is authentic, and what things are uncertain.

The thread counters (those who inspect the cloth to determine if it was machine or hand woven, and the level of technology required to produce the cloth) have thier place in teaching us more about the history as well.

As for me I will continue to carry my 1777 reproduction musket into the re-enactment of the battle of April 19, 1775 as long as the public can not tell the subtle differences between my musket and the 1763 model from 10 feet away.

[the Royaliste]

Anas long as they don't check me diesel, I'll continue to impersonate a 1755-1790 gunship!

[CaptRehab]

Aye but is she trunnel fastened mate?

[the Royaliste]

Her original construction as a yacht, no. Her rebirth, refit, redecking and planking as an 18th century vessel, yes.Plenty of 'tree-nails'(the origin of the phrase 'trunnel') All refit plank are rough hewn, all carvings and signage hand-chiseled, alloperating parts lashed, not bolted. Her sweeps are hand hewn, 18 foot of white cedar from an original Royal Navy Spar treestand in Quebec.

"Welcome to piracy, mate!"

[Thorr the Destroyer]

it has been my experience that authentic is prefered, until it starts interfering with enjoyment. if your not enjoying what you're doing whats the point, right? that goes for those around you too. don't ruin someone elses fun for the sake of 'being right' . In some instances, the Authenticity Nazis are wrong anyways. If something existed or could have existed at the time they have no right to say something is wrong. Unless they have seen every piece of clothing ever worn from said period, which they obviously couldn't have. 200-300 years from now reenacters will be argueing that capes aren't period for our time, but by gosh I wear them in this time period, so they will be wrong won't they? In conclusion "applause", do what makes you happy and let the next guy worry about his own garb, kit, costume, what ever.

[Cap'n Slappy]

We're pirates through and through - it's an attitude you carry, not a particular accurate weapon.

Aye! That's a little somethin' I likes to call "Pirattitude!"

Besides, I always try to go for that authentic "Pirates Smell." Come, take a quaff o' me "authenticity!"

Cap'n SLappy

[Cracked Carrie]

I fully believe in being historically accurate when you're teaching the subject.

I know I'm comin' late to the party, but I thought this was the most salient point in the whole debate...one we keep comin' back to.

Diff'rent approaches for diff'rent objectives. If yer teachin'...be as accurate as possible. If yer pleasin' kids who wanna see pirates...mebbe the requirements be a bit divergent. There's room for a lot o fish in the sea.

And now that I've mixed me metaphors into a big jumble, I'll be headin' off.

[Cracked Carrie]

We're pirates through and through - it's an attitude you carry, not a particular accurate weapon.

Aye! That's a little somethin' I likes to call "Pirattitude!"

Besides, I always try to go for that authentic "Pirates Smell." Come, take a quaff o' me "authenticity!"

Cap'n SLappy

"Pirattitude", is it? So THAT'S the name of yer new scent. I been pillagin' me way through the perfume departments at Macy's fer over a year now, a-lookin' for it, without no luck.

ARRRRR, it's to the mall with me, for that pungent tang o' blackpowder, unwashed, grimy body, sea-salt, and clothing what's been rinsed in stuff we won't mention in public!!!

[Cap'n Slappy]

"Pirattitude", is it? So THAT'S the name of yer new scent. I been pillagin' me way through the perfume departments at Macy's fer over a year now, a-lookin' for it, without no luck.

ARRRRR, it's to the mall with me, for that pungent tang o' blackpowder, unwashed, grimy body, sea-salt, and clothing what's been rinsed in stuff we won't mention in public!!!

Aye, Lassie! We've missed ye! We need yer positive influence and marketing strategies to get "Pirattitude" off the drawin' board and into a boutique near you!

Here's to ye! Cracked Carrie!

Cap'n Slappy

P.S. How's mom?

[Cracked Carrie]

Aye, Lassie! We've missed ye! We need yer positive influence and marketing strategies to get "Pirattitude" off the drawin' board and into a boutique near you!

Here's to ye! Cracked Carrie!

Cap'n Slappy

P.S. How's mom?

'ow's mom? Mom's barking mad, I tell ye! She ain't a-changin'...not at this stage o' life! Mad Margaret she'll be, to the end of her days, and likely to the end o' mine.

Ole Cracked Carrie's gotta get off her posterior and post her latest adventures (or lack thereof) over at TLAPD. I think I likes the pirate boutique concept far too much, that I do.

*wandering off, shouting...*

Here, Muse! C'mere, Muse! Get over here, ye damn wee thing...hidin' in me sock drawer again, no doubt...tipplin' and carryin' on...

['Salem Bob']

Not to stir up trouble, being new and all...

I think many people have misconceptions on both sides of this issue. Firstly, if a bunch of people want to dress in frilly blouses, karate pants, a nondescript vest, and a do-rag with a skull and crossbones on it, and *play* at pirates for their own edification and amusement, be it in a fair, or on a boat, or at a clam-bake, who the heck has the right to waltz in and tell them "You all are doing this wrong", and then proceed to point out all the shortcomings of their costumry and accessories? First off, many of them know precisely whatever shortfallings thier gear has - some might know more about the subject at hand than the wet blanket who is boorishly interrupting their fun. What they are doing is adequate for their purpose, and those who do not care will not be convinced by the interloper, no matter how good their intentions (not all of them have good intentions, some merely want to lord it over others to make themselves feel better about them living in their mothers basement at the age of 40, some people can't feel good unless they are spoiling others fun).

On the other hand, if one is making a pretence of an educational presentation to the public, and is allegedly interpreting history, then one has a duty to be accurate, both in information and appearance. You ought not say "this is the way it was" to a group of people, while looking like a refugee from a bad college film project (or frat party gone horribly wrong). On this point, I feel rather strongly, having done interpretation on a semi-professional basis for several institutions.

Another misconception, I have to agree with Baptiste - using authentic materials makes for a more comfortable experience, and it is no more expensive to do a portrayal authenticaly than inauthenticaly - good lord, a sailor impression is about one of the cheapest ones to do. Wool and linen breathe, synthetics and blends don't I've worn wool and linen and worked a gun in 100 degree heat with no harm, and less discomfort than some of the spectators in shorts and short sleeved tee-shirts. All wool is *not* horseblanket weight, you know. I myself have been accused of being an 'authenticity-nazi', it is a term that gets flung about too freely.

As for the fellow criticizing your splinter with a beam in his eye, just remember, he is probably living in his momas basement, and he has to feel superior to somebody. If he persists - stuff him through a hawse-hole.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

ping

[hurricane]

Even as one who balances between history and entertainment, I have to agree that it's just as easy to use the right materials than cheezy polyester and sequins. I can't count the number of coats I've seen online made of satin that just look hokey. There are plenty of sources for more authentic material - even a fabric store will have some of it if you have a keen eye.

And I can't count the number of people at otherwise good events who think a pair of raggy white pants, a t-shirt with a skull on it and a bandana is a good costume to wear. At least make an attempt. The fashion police should cuff these people and soak them in lye until their bones turn white...

Soothe.... soothe...

Hurricane

[HarborMaster]

I know this wont go over well...., but., Piracy runs rampant in many places around the world.

Including So. America., and S.E. Asia. Malasia and Indonesia. And the mediterannian ?

Pirates do use AK-47's T-Shirts,.,Cell Phones.,50 caliber sub machine guns mounted to high speed boats., GPS., and many other things.As pirates they use every modern convienience to acheive theft.,there is in place International law to apprhend these thugs.

Theyre' are plenty of Real Pirates out there..,and as pirates they arent interested in 350 year old clothing styles..., they are interested in the ships manifest .,cargo and equipment. and they are killers. Real Killers.

Tho it is not part on my Piratical kit as it were.....,And I am not a Real pirate., I am a Plumber with make believe pirate clothing and real cannons and a real stretch of beach I am having fun trying to carry out my dream of a themed Diving resort. I love my Bucket boots., and frock.,and being a muzzle loader most dont find it a threat and let us play with our toys and take enjoyment from it.

This is part of why I am building my own little world., a place Nazi's and Real Pirates are not welcome. But people of all diving interests or pirate fun can come and not be out of place or time.., I am grateful to be able to work for such a retirement playground.

If someone shows up to Dive for a week or use a day cabana for a bar b que., or hang out at the karoeke bar., in authentic 17th century clothing or frilly hollywood pirate attire.., we will be grateful to make their aquantance., and see to their happy good time.

[Patrick Hand]

I'm coming into this one kinda late..... but

I always thought "Authentisity Nazi" was a derogitory term, (and ment to be so...)

My deffinition... an Authentisity Nazi is the person who (usuly) has one good period thing (usualy thier outfit), and procedes to tell you how wrong your stuff is. (Then goes back to thier dome tent....)

I have never heard the tern "thread counter", but have used the term "Hardcore authentic" (I use to re enact the American Civil War, and our stuff wasen't 100% corect, but very close.....) We worked hard on getting everything as close as we could, but made allowances for the new guys.

Someone comented eairley about starting all of the campfires with flint and steel, at a Rendezvous, in the primitive camp, I had already started my campfire with flint and steel, when one of the guys who was very proud of how well he did in the F&S contest (less than 1 minute) but when he reached for a box of kitchen matches, I gave him a hard time (not That hard of a time... mostly joking) anyway, he started his fire with F&S.... we then waited untill the next camp got ready to start thier fire...... anyway, all the fires that weekend in the primitive camp were started with F&S. The point I'm trying to make.... we all knew how to start fires with flint and steel, but sometimes get a little lazy.... It was fun.... kinda added "something" to the event. (and if anyone realy had to start thier fire with matches, we realy wouln't have cared....)

Now back to topic.....

I don't see myself as an authentisity nazi, and hope others don't see me that way. I do want to become a Hardcore authentic pyrate. I want to make my stuff better, and keep improving it so it is as period as possible. But my entheusiasim (however it's spelled) may put some people off.....

[JoshuaRed]

I think alot of us have that enthusiasm in common, Patrick. My goal in this reenacting thing is to eventually come as close to really "being" a period sailor/pirate as I can. And in doing so I have no time for fantasy. If that makes me bad, so be it. I'm not doing this to make friends and go on parade. Sure, the comradery is a great fringe benefit, but the core of it is that I want to experience early 18th Century maritime life as much as is possible.

So, yes, it is enthusiasm for what I'm doing, not disdain for what others are doing. I think sometimes we "authenticity nazis" are misread that way.

[Captain_MacNamara]

I too am coming into this conversation a tab on the late side, but here goes... *deep breath*

I've said 'afore that I mix a bit of history with a splash of fantasy for my experiences in the SCA... My personna is based lossely on my family's history, with a little imagination thrown in... But my garb, as it is, is more accurate than most people's in my area. At least for *my* personna. True, there's the lady from the "barony next door" who has that perfect elizabethan gown, hand sewn, and very correct right down to the last real pearl... and of course, that lady tends to look down her upturned nose at alot of us poor-er commoners... My crew recieves much disdain from those "stiff necked aristocrats", just as our brethern of old recieved as well. My crew is comprised of both men and women, who each portray their personna to varying degrees of authenticity... alot of whom are still taking their baby steps in the learning process.

But being the Captain of my fine little crew, I *do* try to lead by example. I have a very period-style (although probably incorrect for my specific timeframe) canvas double bell wedge tent. I shelled out about a year's savings for a real 1:1 scale deck cannon so that we'd have something other than the miniature "toy" cannons we started out with. I personally do not carry a weapon if is couldn't be used at a moment's notice... (except my gun... I don't carry it loaded, that's just stupid) you won't find cheap pakistani crap on *my* belt (which I had made myself) I shy away from discussing mundane issues when I'm "in character". My garb is made from the fabric I can afford, but one can tell it's not cheap halloween junk, though I do on occassion wear a bandana with skulls and crossbones on it. And my encampment is a fine sight to behold as well, though my crew doesn't share in my good fortune and as such have to camp in modern nylon tents. My point is that I try within my limited funds to be as accurate as possible while still being able to have fun, which is the example I set for my crew.

And when the "period police" or "authenticity nazi's" come my way, it's not because my encampment isn't an attempt at a period one... it's the fact that pirates are frowned upon in the SCA... because n'ere a word is spoken to the "bellydancer" in naught but a chainmail bikini and satin loincloth... Or that one guy who shows up to events for the free beer and wears his blue jeans and T-tunic with a modern belt and modern zinc-cast chrome plated pakistani fantasy sword. They only seem to pick on those of us who are genuinely trying within our budget to portray our personna properly and authentically.

Equality is all I ever ask for fer me and my crew. And when the person is standing in front of me telling me that I can't fly my black flag because it isn't period, I grit my teeth, wait fer them to finish and then point at thier modern watch or nikes and say simply "he who is without sin cast the first stone..." An' if they argue with that, I tell'em "This is my encampment, and I'll do as I damn well please until his Majesty or an official representative thereof tells me otherwise".

:)

[MadMike]

Personally, I don't think the outlay for the beginning reenactor strains the pocketbook or wallet that much. Try Townsend, Smoke & Fire Company, or Godwin for these ready to wear items for the GAoP enthusiast-

1. Wide brim, low crown felt hat- can be steamed to shape to make a cocked hat, starting at $15.00, or cut down for the smaller naval variant. Other headgear as per personal preference (headkerchief, straw hat, thrum hat, etc).

2. Shirt, plain or ruffled, or a smock (haven't seen a checked shirt offered)- $35.00

Neckerchief or headkerchief- buy fabric locally (WalMart or fabric store).

3. French fly trousers or breeches- $55.00. Trousers need to be hemmed above the ankle.

4. Colonial straight last shoes, $90.00 and up

Buckles- $35

5. Stockings (not entirely period, but worn by just about everyone)- $8.00

6. Sleeved waistcoat, sleeveless waistcoat, Coat- optional, starting at $85 for the waistcoat, $125 for sleeved waistcoat, and considerably more for the coat (buy the wool and make your own from a pattern).

7. Spectacles- round frame only (sorry, no modern sunglasses). $35

8. Cutlass, sword, etc- minimal cost, starting around $90.00.

9. Pistol, musket, blunderbuss- see the Discriminating General or Loyalist Arms website. Probably your most expensive outlay; not required but hell, who doesn't love the smell of black powder in the morning?

10. Tent- optional, I've seen some great canvas tarps (sail lean-to) without the bothersome grommet holes for under $40 (Home Depot).

11. Flint and steel kit, castile soap (seen it at K-Mart, women's beauty section), pewter plate, eating utensils, etc.

Nothing prevents anyone from machine sewing or hand making their own clothing, I've hand sewn my own garments just for the experience.

Yours, &c.

Mike

[JoshuaRed]

Yeah as Greg has stated, it's cheaper to go authentic than fantasy!

[Patrick Hand]

I just kinda got lost looking through some F&I reenactors pages (and I was looking for something else.... sheeeesh... gotta love the internet....)

But something that I noticed in thier photos..... lots of them were wearing modern boots.... they were using a modern version of tarps to sleep under.... well I could go on "picking" them apart (not what I wanted to do...) but I am questioning levels of authentisity.....

When I went to rendezvous, I slept in a weland style tent (not period, but it looks ok) there were a lot of non period things, but they "passed"....

It the "10 foot rule" common, what levels of authentisity do others "play" at?

[Fox]

Over this side of the pond the vast majority of events are small living history events rather than skirmishes and battles (though many LH events include skirmishes and battles too). The result is that the viewing public are a damn site closer than 10 feet, they are encouraged to look at the kit and artfacts, handle them and examine them.

For the big battles and skirmishes with no living history attached the 10 feet rule is fairly standard, but amongst the groups who do LH, which is most, the rules are far stricter. Anything which is obviously inauthentic (modern boots etc) is absolutely forbidden, things which are less obviously inauthentic are basically in the hands of the event organisers/sponsors/group commanders, but generally the aim is to be as authentic as possible within the confines of modern legal and safety requirements. Many of our events take place at sites owned by English Heritage (an enormous body, check their website: English Heritage ) and if a group doesn't come up to scratch they will neither book them again nor recommend them to anyone else, so apart from any other reason that's an incentive to strive for the best.

Speaking personally, in Bonaventure we take the attitude that it's not worth doing something unless you're prepared to do it the best you can. If we are aware that something is inauthentic and it can be changed then we change it or do without. What's the point otherwise?

Where it is unavoidable that modern things creep in it is made clear to the public why. A good example would be fires at istoric buildings. In the UK the majority of historic buildings are owned or managed by either English Heritage (or their Scottish and Welsh counerparts), or the National Trust. Both those bodies have the very strict rule that any fires lit on their sites MUST have a fire-extinguisher nearby and in full view. SO, if we want to do cooking or musket-ball making displays at events then we must contaminate our site with a bright red fire-extinguisher - they're usually put somewhere unobtrusive in the hope fewer people will notice them, but they have to be on full view. If any of the public notice the fire-extinguisher then we explain to them that the risk of burning down a 600 year old house just isn't worth running for the sake of authenticity and they are usually satisfied with that.

[MadMike]

Depends on the activity. "Rendezvous Rules" usually state all gear must be pre-1840 and non-period items kept out of public view (modern items under a blanket or otherwise concealed). Kinda ruins the atmosphere seeing a wall tent with a wooden framework (yeah, was interesting to see the guy put it together with a portable drill). A majority of the participants were recreational buckskinners out for a good time (notice I didn't use the term "reenactor").

On the other hand, went to the Rocky Mountain national rendezvous one year and the level of authenticity was excellent. If you didn't have period correct footwear, you didn't get in (that meant no slipper moccasins, cowboy boots, etc).

There are things we have no control over, such as diesel engines on tall ships, but it's not asking much to use natural fabrics or outlay the cash for period style clothing and gear. Research, using the internet or the local library, doesn't cost much.

In my humble opinion it's absurd for an adult to strut around with a Denix replica, pirate logo clothing, capes, and whatnot and present oneself as a "pirate" (or the stereotypical "mountain man" passing himself off as a voyageur or Lewis and Clark).

Try hitting a few local reenactments and see what standards they abide by, it varies from group to group.

Yours, &c.

Mike