Pirate Sword Source

[hurricane]

The camping right now if on the last weekend. You'd obviously qualify on the period encampment thing. So it would be Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday day and night. At night the campers go to the fort by lantern and look around. The campsites are located near the thieve's market which is located between the beach and the fort under a canopy of trees. Very nice. The pirates who camped there last year loved it and the gates to the public close at 6 so there's time to cook, sing songs, and exchange tall tales. I can only imagine that growing in the future.

Even for the seasoned street performer the "Argh!" thing can get pretty tiresome. Who says that anyway? And the endless argh jokes and plays on the word - I can live without.

I'll be skulking around the armor site when I get more time - trying to close down the year in my real job...

Safe harbor...

The Captain

[Barbossa II]

In MaryLand there is an event in April calle "MTT" or Marching Through Time. It includes a racous contingent of Pirates so if ye're interested come on out! Its a good Living History Event with a pretty good public turnout, and plenty of after hours fun for those who're camping.

Barbossa II :angry:

[hurricane]

Boy, that does sound fun. Unfortunately we're tied up entertaining Fortune 500 execs at a huge pirate party on the beach those days. And we save the bulk of vacations for PiP - would never miss 10 days in the Keys. Perhaps in 2006...

-- The Captain

[Patrick Hand]

I've been thinking about the "authentic" vs "Hollywood" pirate image recently...

I use to do Civil War reenacting (14th Tenn. vol. Inf. ) and participate at Rendezvous... (and the S.C.A. but that is a "play" group" ... never meet anyone that was more authentic than what I did (sorry... that's a wierd backhand comment about the authentisity minded.... the ones who wear semi-period court garb.... then go back to thier dome tent....(if they are camping).) A few year ago, I was going to get into WWII reenactments.... but all of the U.S. troops were Rangers or airborn... and all of the Germans were SS ... (Little known historical fact..... WWII was fought entirely by eleat troops...) I was going to do reenactments of Bill Mauldin cartoons.....

Anyway... One of the things I like about playing pyrate (notice.... I did not say Reenact...) is that it is a growing process...... My shirt is the correct cut.... but it is cotten, and machine sewn .... my cutlass is an old "wall hanger" broadsword, that I filed into shape...... I can't document my Sea jacket.... but I realy don't care.... it works... it looks right.... Oh..yah.... and the Enfield musket... makes a nice loud "boom" but WAY outta period.......... just don't have a doglock musket yet.....

I have decided that I will make my stuff (never could get into the use of the word Kit...) close to period.... but I'm not going to sweat over the minor details that no one will ever notice..... (haven't yet met anyone that anal... (don't mean to be offensive to those who enjoy making thier stuff absolutly correct.... but I still ain't met anyone with more authentic stuff to enspire me to do even better.... )

So I will continue to make my stuff astetic ... as aposed to authentic..... and have fun doing it..... When I'm in a parade or at a public event,(or getting my picture taken by tourist....) and someone points at me and says... "look a pirate" I may not be historicaly acurate... and I don't claim to be..... but I strongly feel, that I am getting closer to correct.....

[Barbossa II]

Sounds good Mate!

Barbossa II :angry:

[Paisley]

ok...here's my .02 cents....actually it's probably bout .01....lol

i'm for both (fun pirate & historical pirate), but it depends on situation....

and all i'm going to say is, if i'm not at an historical event & i have my "fun" pirate clothes on....you'd better not start counting my stiches! (unless you want a pink sharpie all over you..lol..and i'd better not catch you with any farb!)

there is a time and a place for each "outfit"....unfortunately money has everything to do with my wardrobe. so...if you'd like to donate to my historical pirate clothing, you can make the check out to:

[Cap'n Pete Straw]

Mr. Hand...

As a CW reenactor myself, I applaud your hangin' on to your Enfield (wouldn't trade mine for the world)... but if you're out of the 1860s biz, ye might be able to trade "up" for a good 18th century flintlock or musketoon.

Just my 2 pistoles worth.

[Charity]

WOW..now that's interesting prices..

I've one problem, we're not allowed wapons, i just don't know how to get it into the country.

i don't know how it goes with shipments such as that ..otherwise i'd get the "Pirate Sword with Wire Wrapped Handle

DBPAK207G $16.99" right now!

It's awsome, and since i'll be making a buccanneers outfit for POTC3..

I need to get some solution for this

Great link mate

[Barbossa II]

You're best bet would be to have it declared a "NON-weapon... "

a "decoration only"

Barbossa II

[Charity]

I'd have to ask if thát's allowed these days

I know several years back the cops made a big action and everywhere on tv etc, it was told if you had any knifes etc yet, you could now bring them and have them taken in without getting a fine or something.

People who owned old pistols such as flintlocks had to have the inner workings removed so it could not be used as an actual pistol etc.

They're going a little far with that crap... one thing is for sure, i'll get me a cutlass sometimes, one way or another!

I love'm .

[Patrick Hand]

ye might be able to trade "up" for a good 18th century flintlock or musketoon.

I want to keep my Enfield..... but I'm trying to save up enough to start buying the parts to make a period musket.... been searching some of the web for more info.... so far Track of the Wolf looks like it might be my best source...

[Roger the Red]

Ahoy, Mates- Out Here we Doesn't Call 'em "Stitch Counters"- We Terms 'em "Authenticity Nazis" with all the endearment that Term Implies-Bottom Line- We all Does the Best We can at the Given Time-We Learns and Grows as We goes, Pays What We can Afford (right...) and Like that. And the Term is Re-en-ACT-ing- it's a Performance Mate, Ye Ain't Back in the Bleedin' Golden Age! I Prefers a Good Performer, Properly Garbed or No- to a Boring Museum Quality Replica- and in Parting, do Ye Know what the Real and Actual Pirates of the Golden Age wore in the West Indies? Oft times, Nary a Stitch. Yers, Roger "the Red" Cochoran of the Port Royal Privateers.

[blackjohn]

As one of the moderators here on Plunder, I'm going to ask everyone to refrain from using the term Authenticity Nazis.

Those of us who are authenticity-minded DO NOT like being compared to criminally insane genocidal maniacs.

At best, using that term may hurt someone's feelings. At worst, it is going to start a flamewar.

[Roger the Red]

John- though We Ain't Never Met, I will Honor thy Wish and Never Use "Au-" well, You Know- Again. There is A flipside to That Coin, Sir-

But I'm Assumin' Yer an Intelligent Fella, and I doesn't Wish to get into any P*ssin' Contests. Fair Winds and Followin' Seas, Roger the Red

[blackjohn]

Thanks. I try to be a moderate moderator. Lets hope I am wise enough for the job.

[Cap'n Pete Straw]

I must concur.

The term "Stitch Counter" is generally accurate... those thus dubbed are known for their level of authenticity (but sometimes reviled for that same level). The term is often used to express a degree of "anal retentiveness"... but don't anyone complain about my using THAT term, as I admit to being be one of the most anal retentive people you will ever meet in terms of authenticity (but I pick and choose where to draw the line, and make no claims to be a stitch counter).

However, "Stitch Counter" is a title / label which can be proudly owned up to by the most rigid of stitch counters without shame, and I doff my tricorn hat to those willing to subject themselves to such a degree of authenticity.

[Master Sully]

Yeah...um...OK, but back to the swords. I found a company out of Ohio that has some very cool period blades. They have several smallswords to select from, and a German hanger as well. I have ordered the hanger, but I probably won't get it until the middle of Feb. Check out their other gear as well because they aren't too expensive. Smiling Fox Forge is their name and I'll tell all about the quality of their goods once I get them.

[Hawkyns]

Smiling Fox Forge is their name and I'll tell all about the quality of their goods once I get them.

Don't know about their swords, but I've bought a bunch of their other stuff; buckles, musket tools, accoutrements, etc. Clarissa bought one of their dresses, too. All excellent, well made, and great folks to boot.

Hawkyns

[JoshuaRed]

I have ordered the hanger, but I probably won't get it until the middle of Feb. Check out their other gear as well because they aren't too expensive. Smiling Fox Forge is their name and I'll tell all about the quality of their goods once I get them.

Small world Studley! I was just looking at that very hanger myself last night! It's one of the only ones around I really like for some modicum of accuracy. I'm no expert, but I've spent a good deal of time lately researching real period swords and this one seems to fit the bill.

[blackjohn]

Their cuttoe does look nice. And if memory serves, "forward" facing shell guards similar to that might go back as far as the 17teens...

[the Royaliste]

As one of the moderators here on Plunder, I'm going to ask everyone to refrain from using the term Authenticity Nazis.

Those of us who are authenticity-minded DO NOT like being compared to criminally insane genocidal maniacs.

At best, using that term may hurt someone's feelings. At worst, it is going to start a flamewar.

The pharase is older than this pub, mate...so, in the interest of 'hurt feelings', how's about nixing all of the derrogatory stuff regarding 'Chinese' in the Rabble Rousing column if we are 'cleaning up' the place.....Just my .02 marevedis,eh

..altho', I've often marveled at how well some costumes are, whilst their owners carry modern swords and sidearms....the 'real' ones are out there, pay the price....

[blackjohn]

The pharase is older than this pub, mate...so, in the interest of 'hurt feelings', how's about nixing all of the derrogatory stuff regarding 'Chinese' in the Rabble Rousing column if we are 'cleaning up' the place.....Just my .02 marevedis,eh

Sorry, but I'm not a moderator in Rabble Rousing, only here...

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Their cuttoe does look nice. And if memory serves, "forward" facing shell guards similar to that might go back as far as the 17teens...

I think John has a good point here... is that a pun?

Going by Neumann's Swords and Blades of the American Revolution, on page 83 there are three photos of hunting hangers that have "forward" facing shell guards.

Neumann has the three dated 1720-1736, 1720-1750, and 1710-1740.

Just from my causual observation (as I am no sword expert), it seems to me that a majority of hunting hangers/hangers that are pre-1720 have shell guards that are perpendicular to the blade, where as almost all of the post 1720 swords have the forward facing style.

Anyone want to chime in with some thoughts on this as I would love to get smarter.

I am concerned about this because a lot of new folks that are trying to be authentic pirates are running into a stumbling block for sword acquisition.

Are there any AUTHENTIC swords out there for 1700-1720 that do not have to be custom made?

I have seen good small swords for our period but how about hangers and baskethilts?

I would like to steer clear of rapiers though.

Anyone?

[Hawkyns]

[i am concerned about this because a lot of new folks that are trying to be authentic pirates are running into a stumbling block for sword acquisition.

Are there any AUTHENTIC swords out there for 1700-1720 that do not have to be custom made?

I have seen good small swords for our period but how about hangers and baskethilts?

I would like to steer clear of rapiers though.

Anyone?

It's still sort of a transtional period for the sword. As the musket becomes more and more the weapon of the infantry, and the pocket pistol becomes the defense weapon of the gentleman, the sword goes in two directions. First, it becomes the small sword, mostly as a piece of jewelry and for duelling. This is not a sword you take into a street fight or a boarding action. Second, it becomes the weapon of the cavalry, long heavy blades that are good for cutting down infantry or pressing a charge.

Basket hilts were mostly cavalry swords, with the exception of a couple, most notably the highland broadsword of the scottish regiments. Cav swords are long, heavy, may have a straight or curved blade, and take strong wrists to wield. In my experience, they are a bit long for using in a tight quarters fight like a deck action. Most of the pieces available today tend to be 19th century blades, ACW types. There are a few around of earlier periods, like the highland piece, but not many.

Infantry hangers are still around for some regiments, but while they have nice short blades, the hilts tend to be simple knuckle bows with a single quillon on the back side. Cast brass hilts are the norm, with slick grips. Much more a holdover and not really intended for use. As far back as the 1640's, army command had noted that the primary use of infantry swords was for 'cutting firewood and menacing the populace', and had advocated removing them from service.

The mid level of the population still used hangers for personal protection, especially in the colonies. That, and the hunting hangers of the gentlemen were the primary source of swords of a non-military nature. Therein lies the problem. These were either one of a kind custom pieces made for the gentlemen, or things banged out on the local blacksmith's anvil, rehilts on old blades, cut down cav swords, or even remade scythe blades. By their very nature they were one of a kind pieces.

Some ships captains had blades made for defensive fighting, and the cutlass was still in use. There again, though, there was no pattern as such. They would be privately contracted in batches of 20 or so. It would be after the golden age that we would see many variations, although the common sort was the 'figure 8' or 'double d' hilt, two discs at right angles, one as a quillon, the other as a knuckle guard.

In the French and Indian War, and even into the Revolution, militia still carried swords, although most Militia Acts permitted either a sword or a short axe. Most militia, other than officers, carried the axe as being more useful. Even military units dropped the sword in favour of the axe for combat operations in the American wilderness.

So, to boil all this down to the original question, most pirates should have a custom made sword. Shell guards, basket hilts, ribbon hilts, all sorts of hilts on shorter blades would be good. There are some weapons out there that are acceptable as purchased, but theyare expensive. I would say that the best thing to do is to purchase an inexpensive infantry hanger, get some cardboard and make a hilt pattern, then transfer it to 14guage steel and cut it out with a heavy duty sabre saw. Hammer it to shape, carve a hilt that you find comfortable, and reassemble the piece. Or find a hilt that you like and have it mated to a shorter blade. Or go to a sword cutler and have one made.

It will not be cheap or easy. That is the price (literally) of authenticity.

Hawkyns

[the Royaliste]

Ebay, as well as most collectors, occaisionally lists just period blades; I've aquired several for under a hunnert bucks....Look for swords, sub group militaria..