Pirate Sword Source

[Sidewinder]

Look under the word "pirate" on their search engine. Some really good prices here; http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerc...ode=Cat&Cat=175

[blackjohn]

Good prices, maybe, but certainly not the height of authenticity...

[hurricane]

Good prices, maybe, but certainly not the height of authenticity...

Sorry to break your heart, mate. But not everyone is into authenticity. Some pirates just like to go out and entertain - and these are just fine for some. I saw some good entry-level pieces for casual pirates and those that aren't authenticity MINDED...

And there is some misconception about what a pirate would ordinarily wear. While cutlasses were preferred for their superiority in close quarters as a hacking weapon, a pirate, particularly an ordinary crewe member, would be prone to trade up whenever a better weapon came along. This could have been anything used aboard the enemy's ship, including those of the Great Mogul's fleet. So there would have been a variety of styles and weapons aboard as not everyone could stop by the Pirates R Us store dockside and pick up standard issue.

It's akin to a Vietnam war re-enactor (imagine that some day in the future) who would only arm himself with an M-16 when many in the jungles preferred to dump the M-16 at the first available moment and arm themselves with an AK-47 instead (much more reliable in the dirt, less prone to jamming). The M-16 is fine, but so is the AK-47 for re-enactment, historical portayal... And for those without the budget, perhaps an AR-15 would do in place of the 16...

-- The Captain

[Barbossa II]

Well Captain...

Some do care about doing a TOP NOTCH Pirate impression whether it be for casual appearance or not. If "your" gear is cheap and shoddy it makes "you" feel really bad when you stand with those whose gear is spot on.

Captain Barbossa II

[Barbossa II]

Hey Sidewinder!

There was one blade on there that looked quite good!

Barbossa II

[Diosa De Cancion]

Well Captain...

Some do care about doing a TOP NOTCH Pirate impression whether it be for casual appearance or not. If "your" gear is cheap and shoddy it makes "you" feel really bad when you stand with those whose gear is spot on.

Captain Barbossa II

I don't believe that is what The Capt meant.... there is a difference between items not being perfectly authentic and items that are shoddy, and not made well. The two are not one and the same. I wear a Spanish Sword that would not have been logical to use aboard a pirate ship(too long of blade) but I have been at numerous events, where others admire the sword and it's blade, and don't really seem to care that it would not fit perfectly into the pirate persona... besides... I figure not every pirate who was out plundering and pillaging had a perfectly new weapon... they were used... they were lost/found/beaten up in the process.

Besides, some of the items on the site, looked rather nice.

[blackjohn]

Good prices, maybe, but certainly not the height of authenticity...

Sorry to break your heart, mate. But not everyone is into authenticity. Some pirates just like to go out and entertain - and these are just fine for some. I saw some good entry-level pieces for casual pirates and those that aren't authenticity MINDED...

No heart broken here. Just pointing out the fact for those who might be interested in that sort of thing, but are new to the hobby.

:)

[the Royaliste]

Seems to me that it is still 'about having fun'...If not, why do it at all??..Seems to me that from a casual observation, I see a zillion copies of 'piate swords' that are cheap copies of model 1860 U.S.N. cutlasses...waaay out of 'period', but..so what, 'tis an accepted looking sword. If you enjoy them, fine, eh??...At the same time, I doubt the average availability at sea to plunder blades that were 'too long', as no prey would be carrying a weapon that was improper for service, no matter how 'nice', it'd have been cut down to become serviceable, as movement on deck was still a priority.

[blackjohn]

Seems to me that it is still 'about having fun'...If not, why do it at all??

Because for some, maybe even many, part of the fun is trying to get it right.

[Diosa De Cancion]

Seems to me that it is still 'about having fun'...If not, why do it at all??..Seems to me that from a casual observation, I see a zillion copies of 'piate swords' that are cheap copies of model 1860 U.S.N. cutlasses...waaay out of 'period', but..so what, 'tis an accepted looking sword. If you enjoy them, fine, eh??...At the same time, I doubt the average availability at sea to plunder blades that were 'too long', as no prey would be carrying a weapon that was improper for service, no matter how 'nice', it'd have been cut down to become serviceable, as movement on deck was still a priority.

Totally agreed, perhaps you took what I said wrong. I know my sword is not 'authentic pirate wear' but I frankly don't care because I like it and it looks good on! I totally agree with you that it is all about having fun!

[Bilgemunky]

Personally, I'm more an enthusiast than a reinactor. And while I try to keep my own costume more or less authentic, and certainly wouldn't feel right with a "costume" sword at my side, a resource like this is perfect for dressing out my house for pirate parties.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't hang swords from every wall if they're going to cost me $300-$600 a pop. But $19.99? THAT I can afford (and they'll look soooo much better than plastic ones from the local party supply shop.)

[hurricane]

I agree - my main arms fit my personality, not necessarily period. And since it mostly must stay "holstered" at my side as bars and establishments don't often like you pulling our your weapon, I choose one for public appearances that accents the look, damn the authenticity.

I have a second weapon that is classic cutlass that I use when posing with the public so they can hold it in the photos and make themselves look daunting... but it isn't the most comfortable piece I own, hence, it's just for festivals and such where people want to have a photo of them holding a sword to a pirate's throat.

I've never had anyone freak out because it's not exactly period, but if they did I'd simply run them through, because while not totally authentic, it is freaking sharp!

It's one thing to be a pretty pirate at an event with top notch gear - it's another to be a top notch pirate with the gear you have...

-- The Captain

[Hawkyns]

It's akin to a Vietnam war re-enactor (imagine that some day in the future)

-- The Captain

The future is now.

http://dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Humanities/Histo...Living_History/

Saw my first VN re-enactment group back around '85.

About the swords- wall hangers or carry pieces only INMSHO. I wouldn't fight with them, or pull them as examples of weapons for a living history display.

Yeah, some of us do care about the authenticity of what we do. ( Glad you edited that, BTW, that could have caused problems. I'm a stitch counter and proud of it. ) A sword should be able to do everything the original did. The fun is getting to the point where you can't tell originals from repros except by the age patina.

It's like everything else, you gets what ya pays for. A $20 dollar machine stamped sword will always look like a $20 dollar machine stamped sword. If that's OK for you, fine.

Hawkyns

[Cap'n Pete Straw]

*(Pulls up Soap Box, and climbs on top)*

Excuse my long post, but I want to log in on this topic. And I don't mean to step on any toes, so forgive me if my carefully selected words are not careful enough, for I do not mean to Offend or Label.

In Civil War reenacting circles, this (ongoing recent thread) is known as a "Stitch Counting" argument. Stitch Counters (for those unfamiliar with the term) actually argue about the number, size and frequency of the hand-sewn stitches in your shirt (kepi, tunic, trowsers, what have you) when they are not exactly accurate from a historical standpoint. While I fully respect and appreciate historical authenticity to the smallest detail, this degree of anal-retentiveness (outside of museum replicas) rarely adds to the enjoyment of the activity. Such a careful scrutiny has educational value, but I have sadly witnessed it used all-too-often to belittle those who are simply not up to speed with the hobby.

Don't get me wrong -- I personally strive for authenticity in all my areas of reenacting. Historical reenacting is usually (FIRST) for education of oneself and the public, and (SECOND) for Fun and/or Love of Theatre.

Myself? I have several costume (but historical) pirate props in my sea chest. And I am not trading them. And the cops won't hassle me for carrying them (and I live in the single U.S. State where the firearm edicts were patterned specifically after those established in Nazi Germany -- I kid you not, and don't get me started on THAT discussion). They look mighty fine for what they are: theatrical props. The black powder weapons stay locked up at home, unless an event calls for them and supports their use.

Historical clothing is not a costume -- it is clothing. If made authentic to the period in question, it is clothing. A costume is a costume, whether for Hallowe'en, theatre, or photo ops. Having said that, I will confess here and now that most of my pirate clothing is, by definition, clothing -- but some of it is costume. Finances and time dictate these decisions for me; when factors allow, costume will be traded off for clothing.

I support "stitch-counters" in all their authenticity. And I support those that try very hard to improve their authentic swag as their finances, knowledge and experience increase. And I applaud those who discard the more "Fantasy" items for the "Historic" ones when they become available.

My personal pet peeve is those who Don't Give A Damn. For this I will post a new Reply... to follow...

[Cap'n Pete Straw]

Okay ... two posts were added to this topic while I was typing. One echoed a lot of what I was trying to say (in far less words) and the other person admitted to being a Stitch Counter, without my having said it yet ... I am so embarrassed...

Hawkyns, as I said, I support stitch counting. I simply cannot abide by those who use stitch counting as a means to belittle the efforts of others. (And I make no claims that this is being done here by you or anyone else. I was trying to say that I have seen it done, and the damage it has done, at Civil War Reenactments).

So here's what I was going to say -- which I admit is WAY off topic, but I feel it emphasizes my point (although you may disagree).

Among the many things that I do (much to the chagrin of my eternally loving, patient and supportive wife) is Klingon pre-enacting (I made up that term just now). Yes: I have a full bumpy-head-to-metal-spiked-toe Klingon costume. It looks exactly like the costumes in the TV series and movies, and most people think it is a Hollywood cast-off -- it is difficult convincing anyone that I made it myself.

So... When we have Klingon Invasions, I wear my costume -- complete with the two-hour make-up job and foamed latex prosthetic forehead. And there are a few others who do a damned good Hollywood-would-be-proud job. There are some who wear substandard latex foreheads, or don't attempt to blend their makeup to look like it's part of their face, but still do their best to get in the spirit of things and try for an authentic impression. But there are others who Don't Give A Damn.

Some show up as half-Klingons in Dr. Suess hats, bouncy antenna hair thingies or Dr. Who scarves. Or all manner of silliness. Okay, so I admit we are not being historical reenactors, and perhaps I suddenly sound like a Klingon Stitch Counter (no, there is no such thing)... but suddenly, the activity no longer feels even slightly "real," but rather stupid. While I do not even wish to begin defending the point of Klingon Invasions (too far off topic) or the perhaps perceived inherent stupidity of going out in public dressed up in a science-fiction costume (IAKTYWU), my point is, if you are going to try, at least TRY. ("Do. Or Do not. There is no try.")

And I applaud those who try. If your heart is in it, I support your efforts to make it so.

But if you show up as a Pirate in a Dr. Suess hat, I don't have to talk to you.

... I apologize for the off-topic thread. I felt it was related so far as making my point for me.

[blackjohn]

... I apologize for the off-topic thread. I felt it was related so far as making my point for me.

No problem... I've got my finger on the "edit message" button in case a flame war erupts. And anyway, we all know real klingons don't have lumpy heads!!!

[Barbossa II]

Hey Captain... I definitely agree with the difference between a pretty pirate and one who is top notch.

I prefer a Top notch Pirate with Top notch gear!

And Goddess/Bodice... I don't think I misunderstood at all. WHen I use the term shoddy it can mean... shoddy as in poorly built, or IMHO shoddy can mean someone showing up in an horribly unauthentic "costume" to play Pirate.

I agree with Capt Straw as well. If someone is making a sincere effort then I would gladly accept them aboard and help and encourage them. In no way would I ever belittle anyone... I am not the Farb police.

But if it can be done right then I'd like to see it done so. I do this with all my reenactment endeavors (Victorian British, WWI German, Civil War, WWII American and German, and 18th Century Pirate)my professional costume endeavors (Star Wars stormtrooper, GI JOE, etc) and with certain professional gigs like FULL CONTACT jousting, Elvis Impersonations etc that I engage in.

If others want to do something different so be it... live and let live. I just know that if someone is wearing a costume which appears cheap and shoddy next to the real stuff then it makes THEM feel bad. I don't want people to feel bad or sad about their efforts. I'll never forget the look on this grown man's face when he came to this costume ball in a homemade Vader outfit (cheap mask, black jeans, and sweatshirt, cheap toy lightsabre) and then he saw our Vader (who looked like he just stepped off the set at Lucasfilms), the guy hung his head in shame and left. There was no FUN there, no JUST OUT HAVING A GOOD TIME, and we felt bad for him. If he had tried to talk we would have encouraged him and helped him (if he wanted) in the right direction. Instead he had probably the crappiest night in memory for him.

When I do it you get the real deal.

Not a just a pretty Pirate with Top Notch gear only.

Barbossa II

[Sidewinder]

Well, it appears this turned out to be flame bait. There were maybe a couple of swords that I would consider in the lot. I didn't mean to imply that they were all ok, in my eyes.

Now, while we are on the subject of "authenticity", do you think "Pirates of the Carribean" was anything in that dept.? Essentially it was a Hollywood pirate flick. Did people really care? Yeah, Disney cried all the way to the bank, and is planning more in the series.

Not everyone can afford to buy a "designer" sword at first. Several years back I bought a Walloon Hilt Hanger that was surplused by a Hollywood prop house. It's a stage sword -no edge, but it looks like it saw service in more than a few swashbucklers on the silver screen. I went to an event in Colonial Williamsburg a few years back and had several reenactors offer to buy it for more than I paid [around $100]. I happened to have the money to get this at the time I did, but if I hadn't I would have looked over others, maybe even some on that web site. Replacement scabbards can be made. I've seen some other swords that looked similar selling for a good bit more.

A person doesn't need to look like they are over-age trick-or-treaters. Yeah, I can see that. In Civil War you have folks who bring radios and portable TV's into camp too. On the other end of the spectrum

You have folks who expend tremendous sums for an item that's not all that different from something as good that costs a good bit less elsewhere. It gets sort of like high school, with folks talking about such and such an item made by so and so; Rodeo Drive meets Sutler's Row. There is a web site selling Rev. War American cartridge boxes for about $150-$200 that are a designer job, and another made somewhere like India or Pakistan that runs around $50 and is about as good. Personally, I'd feel a lot "sadder" if I learned I'd paid $200 for something I could have gotten for $50.

The point is to do the best you can with the funds you have at your disposal. I'd rather see someone carrying a good looking fake flintlock vs. a firing percussion gun. As one person has already mentioned, some states have such restritive laws there is almost no alternative.

Here is one of the swords:

http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerc...y=8&SKU=DBYK132

If nothing else, it might look nice on the wall.

Here is the other: http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerc...15&SKU=FRC799CB

The last one would be helped by cleaning whatever etching that is off the blade and getting a leather scabbard for it - or make one yorself. For some folks who like to "Do-It-Yourself", the price you are paying is worth at least the cost of the blade.

Yrs. Piratically,

Sidewinder

[who still ocassionally breaks into a Robert Newton imitation - Argh!]

[Gentleman of Fortune]

Once more into the fray....

Why is it that when people with unauthentic impressions are asked about the validity of their clothing they always mention something about stitch counters/nazis?

In the spectrum of re-enactors, you have the ultimate farb down at number 1 and someone wearing original uniforms and equipment at number 10.

Is the mentality for the unauthentic, "since I am too _____ (fill in the blank with cheap, lazy, ignorant, uniformed, apathetic etc) i will just use what I can and call myself a ______ (fill in with whatever impression they are doin) anyway"?

Since I don't have enough money/skill/knowledge to be a stitch counter I will just be as unauthentic as I can? Can't they strive for 1 notch below a stitch counter? OK 2 notches????

I know there are the newbies that don't know any better and make uniformed attempts but are trying to do there best.

But there are also the folks that for years have been wearing the same black jeans and east german jackboots and stand up in front of the public and calls himself (or herself) a golden age pirate.

I am really working hard to let go of this and let people just do whatever, but I hate it when people (the unauthentic) use the word stitch counter like its a swear word or something.

Its not the stitch counting that is bad, its a stitch counter with an un-helpful "better than everyone else" attitude that is bad.

Enough....

[Sidewinder]

Since I don't have enough money/skill/knowledge to be a stitch counter I will just be as unauthentic as I can?  Can't they strive for 1 notch below a stitch counter?  OK 2 notches????

I know there are the newbies that don't know any better and make uniformed attempts but are trying to do there best. 

But there are also the folks that for years have been wearing the same black jeans and east german jackboots and stand up in front of the public and calls himself (or herself) a golden age pirate.

I am really working hard to let go of this and let people just do whatever, but I hate it when people (the unauthentic) use the word stitch counter like its a swear word or something.

Its not the stitch counting that is bad, its a stitch counter with an un-helpful "better than everyone else" attitude that is bad.

Enough....

I agree here. I think most folks would want to look reasonably passable.

Someone, say a student, might not have a lot of money to throw around. Authentic clothing can be made fairly easily, or bought at a modest price. I've made a good bit of my gear.

There were some other swords listed on the same site, not under "Pirate" that might work also. There are several Spanish swords on the web site, too. Myself, I'd prefer to carry the old "Captain Blood Special".

Compare some of those swords to this;

http://www.a2armory.com/picusw.html

If you can afford it and want one, fine.

Look at some of the items here as well;

http://www.middlesexvillagetrading.com/

now compare the above cutlass to this;

http://www.gggodwin.com/59.htm

Hey, if you can afford it, fine.......

I think someone is either making a doglock musket now, or has one in the works. Here's something on that;

http://www.militaryheritage.com/muskets.htm

Argh!

Sidewinder

[Hawkyns]

Personally, I prefer these guys

http://www.armourclass.com/Data/Pages/17Ce...ntury_Main2.htm

I know I can use them in a combat scenario without fear of breaking or bending, they look right, and the edges and points are bated so that even fighting without armour or masks, we'll only deal with bruises or the odd broken bone.

For more formal (i.e Scadian) combat, I swear by this guy

http://www.darkwoodarmory.com/swordhilts17.shtml

I just got a matched set of Irish hilt sword and reiver dagger from him for the sidesword experiment. Can't wait to try them out.

For sharp carry pieces, I find blades and have hilts made or make them myself.

No question, I'm picky about my weapons. If I can't expect it to hold up in a fight, either for mock combat or , gods forbid, the real thing, I won't carry it. Most of my events are living history events and I need to maintain a museum standard. Years ago, when I first got involved with Plimoth Plantation, I found I loved their authenticity standard. I have lived by it ever since. Not for everyone, perhaps, but it works for me and it's what I insist on for my gun crews.

Hawkyns

[hurricane]

There are two divergent approaches here... and the only time I've ever seen re-enactors, Hollywood pirates and pseudo-pirates in harmony as been at Pirates in Paradise, when you're just a pirate. And those that are can tell those that aren't whether they're wearing authentic togs or a three piece suit. The clothing doesn't make the pirate, it comes from deep inside.

So, let's just celebrate the differences... for example, our own group (The Pyrates of the Coast) is out in the public 50 to 75 or so days out of the year - our clothing needs to survive the rigors of regular use that includes sailing, personal appearances, little kids with cotton candy in their hands and old ladies who want to cop a feel. The same clothing needs to fit the cold of the Pacific Northwest in the dead of winter and the tepid heat of Florida in June. So authenticity takes a back seat to comfort and the ability to outfit oneself for 10 days in the rotting stink of a 100% humdity day or an unexpected snowstorm.

Then there are those who love to go out and camp in period gear, either on their own or as part of a gathering of others who love the pursuit of history. All fine and dandy too. I don't think they could do what the performer pirates do and vice versa. In fact, if I recall, it was Hawkyns himself who said he was a little out of kilter at PiP because of all the general public duty in town... (correct me if I'm wrong on that, sir -and as an aside, you'd love the new event at the fort which would was absolutely time-space transcending). It simply wasn't his thing. Just as it's not my thing to do without the modern comforts of a hotel and hot tub. :)

The point of this is, we're all trying to convince the other side that their point of view is more correct, whatever that means.

Pointless. And yes, I love to stir the pot as much as anyone. But I for one, as a performer/entertainer pirate, could never do what the likes of Ben Cherry, Spydr, Cascabel, Blade or Hawkyns can do. They're simply amazing at what they do.

But I don't think they could equally throw themselves into the unknown frackuses we entertainers do and be able to improv their way into the hearts of many and avoid a few fists in the face at the same time.

And I'm neither one to envy the gear of those seeking authenticity or castigate those who come in a costume in a bag with a plastic sword. I've stood beside both countless times and I make all feel welcome.

So let's all move on to our respective paths and recognize that we have different callings.

The new year is upon us and there's plenty of plunder for all of us in 2005...

-- The Captain

And Hawkyns, thanks for the fine link - love their line of swords - my bank account is about to take a beating however because of you. Happy new year!

[Barbossa II]

Well Mates! I see this has finally wound down... and I'm glad for it. I agree completely with Sidewinder, Gentleman of Fortune, and Hawkyns.

And yes Captain Hurricane... I even agree with you here on the 2nd page. I am both a reenactor and a performer/entertainer. I have seen many who cannot do what performers do in front of and amongst the public/crowd.

I will say that when you are involved in displays and performances at which the public is present and in close to you, the quality of your equipment becomes even more important! I've been doing this a long time Mate... sounds like you have too. There are far more people who appreciate when you've got it right than those who don't know the difference.

I have been performing in front of crowds that have numbered as few as 20 and as many as 80,000, YES that's eighty thousand.

So I agree with your sentiments. Let's help all have fun. Its a new year, may the seas be prosperous for us all!

Barbossa II

[Cap'n Pete Straw]

Its not the stitch counting that is bad, its a stitch counter with an un-helpful "better than everyone else" attitude that is bad.

Again, someone summed up in a sentence what took me a few paragraphs to say.

[Hawkyns]

Then there are those who love to go out and camp in period gear, either on their own or as part of a gathering of others who love the pursuit of history. All fine and dandy too. I don't think they could do what the performer pirates do and vice versa. In fact, if I recall, it was Hawkyns himself who said he was a little out of kilter at PiP because of all the general public duty in town... (correct me if I'm wrong on that, sir -and as an aside, you'd love the new event at the fort which would was absolutely time-space transcending). It simply wasn't his thing. Just as it's not my thing to do without the modern comforts of a hotel and hot tub. :)

-- The Captain

And Hawkyns, thanks for the fine link - love their line of swords - my bank account is about to take a beating however because of you. Happy new year!

Yeah. it wasn't the public as such, at a major living history I deal with thousands of people a day. It was their expectations that threw me for a loop. Saying 'Arrgghh' and waving a cutlass around is not my thing. I love to sing, but I prefer the period stuff, not what most pirate groups sing. Just used to a more historically oriented crowd where I talk weapons, history and ships until my throat's dry.

What's the status with the fort? Is it daytime only, or can you set up camp and live on site? I didn't have the chance to get there when I was down at FF, but it does look good from the outside.

I'm going stir crazy at the moment. It's been about 9 weeks since I went camping and it will probably be another 9 or 10 'till I can get under canvas again. There is the possibility of a snowshoe trek in February. Out for a couple of days in the woods in 18th c kit, just tarps, no tents. (OK, I'm insane. No news here )

Which of those gorgeous blades are you looking at? My apologies to your bank account, but it's my duty to place as many weapons in as many hands as possible.

Hawkyns