How silly is this?!?!

[KW Pirate]

I can't believe that this high school student has to go thru this.

Deadly Aim

Teen Suspended Over Civil War Weapon

Wed Oct 13, 9:46 AM ET Top Stories - AP

PINE BUSH, N.Y. - A teen-age Civil War buff has been suspended from school and faces serious charges after his replica musket was found in his car trunk at school in the Orange County community of Pine Bush.

Joshua Phelps had been at a re-enactment with his Civil War costume, including a musket last week. He threw the uniform and equipment into his truck and forgot about it. Yesterday a security guard at the Pine Bush High School saw it and called police.

Phelps was sitting in study hall when the security guard told him to go to the assistant principal. When he was told they saw the rifle he wasn't concerned - thinking they would understand it's part of his costume.

But it didn't happen that way. Town of Crawford Police were called and Phelps was cuffed and charged with a misdemeanor charge of criminal possession of a weapon.

His mother, Valerie Michaels, is outraged, saying the school has blown this thing way out of proportion. She says also in the trunk was a costume, shoes, leather belt, powder keg, and a leather cartridge box.

Phelps used the costume when taking part of the re-enactment of the Battle of Chancellorville which was staged by the 124th New York State Volunteers. The re-enactors say they are models of the unit that came from Orange County and fought in the Civil war. High School students were recruited to take part in the re-enactors club. Phelps' mother questions why give the students fake guns and then arrest them.

[Captain_MacNamara]

It's a sad day when us history-lovin' types be lumped in with the common terrorists...

Common sense (in this case, with the police) in this country has decayed to the point of nothingness... Hell, I'm only 24 and I remember when kids were given .22 rifles are birthday and christmas presents, and not too many kids were involved in shootings back then. The police there must just be bored, and want some publicity for their "anti-gun" campaigns... although, if he got a good lawyer, he'd probably get the charges dropped, as muzzle-loading antique and replica antique guns are exempt from the Gun Control Act... and also since he had the rest of his kit in the trunk with the rifle.

[El Pirata]

A non-firing replica is a weapon? Oh man. I guess they might as well take all the pens, pencils, clothes and cars from high school students because any of them can be used as a weapon.

[the Royaliste]

Sounds to me like the school is interferring in an ongoing living history diorama, and should therefore be charged with tresspass or B&E for opening his trunk and confiscating said replica......... :)

[Captain_MacNamara]

not neccesarily... the security guard probably saw the weapon when the student opened the trunk. Being nosy, yes, but within his position legally, so long as he had just cause.

Now, I DO think they can sue for unlawful siezure of said "weapon" simply because it is NOT by definition a weapon (even if it WAS capable of firing):

From "Federal Firearms Regulation, ATF P 5300.4"

Title 27, Part 179, section 11, Subpart A

Destructive Device.

subsection c.

The term shall not include ... or is an antique or is a rifle which the

owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

From the section entitled: Definitions.

Antique Firearm. Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim

fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and

manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock,

percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof,

whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and

also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for

which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not

readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

From the section of Rulings and General Information

Section L, part 27. Muzzle loading firearms not capable of firing

fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, and replicas and

models thereof, are antiques and not subject to the provisions of either

Title I or Title II of the GCA. [179.11]

[Cascabel]

Interesting..... I just got back from doing a middle school presentation in South Carolina, and spent all day in the school fully armed with a cutlass and fully functional flintlock pistol and blunderbuss. They LOVED me being there.

I'm SO glad not to live any where near "THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIK of NEW YORK !!!!!

>>>>>> Cascabel

[Animal]

Once again the absurdity of the anti gun folks are at work. Here in Washington State, a student had his paintball gun, empty CO2 canister, field dress in his locked box in his locked trunk of his car. The security guard saw a paintball decal on the rear window of the car and went to the principle with the licence number of the vehicle. Mind you that the paintball gun was in no way visible from the outside. The police were called and ran the number and pulled out of his calculis (sp) final and ordered hihm to open the trunk. He complied. they then ordered hihm to open the locked box. He complied. He even had a trigger lock on the paintgun. He was charged with having a wepon at school, suspended and missed hihs graduation. He sued the school districe, the local police and the security guard personally for a total of $2 million and won. He graduated with honors and didn't have to finish the test as he had aced it as far as he got. Everyone fought the suit on appeal but it was upheld. I guess he taught the powers that be a lesson. He later had to threaten another suit for his gear that was taken.

Animal

[Animal]

I also hear today that a student who is a member of the high school skeet shooting team and an honor student, wanted to have his senior picture taken with his "high grade and expensive" skeet gun. The school officals denied it. I think I heard that he was thinking about a law suit also. I didn't hear where thihs happened.

Animal

[Toe Cutter]

ARRR, if tha ANTI-GUN people gets their ways even our flint locks wont be safe. And paintball will end up like it is in most other countries where you have to keep your paintgun at the field and can NEVER take it home.

I don't want to get all political here but one of the candidates running for President has voted ANTI-2nd amendment EVERY chance he has had since he has been in office.

ARRR, they can has me guns when they pry em from me cold dead fingers!

[DocF225]

The young man in question is a member in good standing of the Orange Blossoms - the NY 124th infantry. We just skirmished with them over last weekend (I'm 3rd Alabama). He was recruited by the Blossoms at the same school from which he was suspended.

The firearm was not in plain sight, it was on the rear floor of his car under some clothes and his Union Uniform. The "butt plate" was barely visible. The "Security Guard" is not certifed by any law enforcement agency (as NY Ed law doesn't require them to be trained or certified). The guard performed an illegal search of the car and the arrest which came of it is fruit of the poisonous tree.

[DocF225]

Now, I DO think they can sue for unlawful siezure of said "weapon" simply because it is NOT by definition a weapon (even if it WAS capable of firing):

Here's a good one for you, New Jersey classifies my 1862 Springfield Musket as an "Assault Weapon" because it has a Bayonet Lug.

welcome to absurdity.

[Captain_MacNamara]

I'm glad that I live in oklahoma... most people here besides the police are still hickish enough to care about keeping their guns. I may only have my cannons, but dammit, this country was founded with the use of guns. People need to be taught a little common sense... all the GCA does is take away the honest man's defence. Criminals have always had, and will always have guns, and by enforcing gun control to this degree of absurdity just takes away the honest man's means of defence.

And aye... they can have my cannons... right after I give'm a full broadside!

[Meria Roseblade]

How sad and a pain in the rear for both he and his family. I've been out of highschool just over...well, under 15 years and I can remember most guys having their rifles in the backs of their trucks at school (usually on racks lol). A lot of 'em would go hunting before school for deer, hog ..whatever. What a ..sad..no stupid state of affairs we've come to when a nonfiring weapon is considered a 'threat'. Bet those boys back in highschool would've bust a gut laughing at the affair. :)

[Lady Seahawke]

well although I tend to agree, we must be willing to see the other side just a tad...ok, now put all the flints and cutlasses down. first in the past kids didn't think about shooting other kids...and once it began there were the copycatters.

And thus far (unfortunately this century has only began ...) Remember New York has been though the greatest tragedies of this century. It shocked the world. So I can understand they being a bit uneasy.

If that had been a firing gun, and he had been so inclined well it could have been a different story. IE, there was young man in his twenties that took a samuari sword to work some department store or other....and started slashing people.

Non firing weapons can be used to intimate people. A person that doesn't know better could be intimated to do things that they wouldn't normally do...A young child looking down a barrel wouldn't know the difference...Even teenagers...especially some of the young girls. And remember during the earlier centuries those flints, blunderbusses etc, took lifes too

Children need to feel save at school and not afraid to go. There was a story about some professor going off the deep end recently and had his students terrified. To the point that they called in the police to search the buildings for explosives.

Remember accidents can and do happen. If he taken it out just to show it off and an accident happen well again the story could have had a different ending. Perhaps not with the young gent in the story, but, what about the next one...that wants to do some damage to another...and thinks he could get by the band with bringing one to school... So, yeah the authorities may go a bit far...but, if it had been a different ending, we all would have been asking why it hadn't been found, why his parents allowed him to have it...etc.

[Cascabel]

I think the big issue here is, that after determining there was no criminal intent, the police and the school STILL decided to blow it out of proportion.

>>>> Cascabel