Bos'un..Quatermaster..

[Charity]

I have often trouble with the language as English nautical terms aren't so easy at times, and somehow i have trouble knowing the difference between a Bos'un and a Quartermaster.

Is there anyone who can explain?

[Silver Steele]

Bosun or Boatswain was generally the #4 man on a ship (Royal Navy). He was in charge of the provisions for th ship. Supervising the maintenance of the ship and it stores including the ship's boats, anchors and booms. (Food, water, gunpowder, shot, rope, wood, spare sails, etc.). He was responsible for inspecting ships sails and rigging each morning. He was in charge of all deck activities, including weighing and dropping anchor, and handling of the sails. He oversaw the duties of the carpenter and the cook. He was the person who, with the Bosuns call, would call all hands on deck. He reported to the Quartermaster.

The Quartermaster was the ranking officer in charge of overseeing the general interests of the ship. He was the number two man on the ship. He was responsible for enforcing the ship's articles and administering punishment when necessary. He was generally in charge of the ship when it was not in battle and while in battle he generally led the men in boardings. He was also responsible for watch-to-watch navigation of the ship, under the direction of the navigator. He was the person that was responsible for counting the booty and splitting the shares with the crew. Basically, he made sure everybody had everything they needed to do their job. Kinda like a union leader between the union and the workers.

I've got almost all ships positions listed on my webpage, but unfortunately, I've got it down for a couple of days for a revamping.

[King's Pyrate]

Bosun or Boatswain was generally the #4 man on a ship (Royal Navy).

Madam, your explaination may very well apply to a pirate ship however I assure you it is not applicable to Royal Navy ships.

Try the Maritine Historical Society

under Nelson's Navy.

Hope this helps for Royal Navy ships

KP

[Silver Steele]

My resources were the "Sea Man's Vade Mecum" 1707. I was giving an answer from a resource around the time of the Golden Era. I do not recall exactly where I got the infomation regarding him being the #4 man on the ship. But I shall check my resources on that matter.

Maritime Virtual History Archives

So yes my answer was not for anything dealing in the Napoleon Era of the Royal Navy (around the late 1700's to early 1800's, 80 to 100 years past the Golden Age of Piracy) the time of which you speak and of which the Marine Historical Society deals with. And upon looking at their site, I see no mention of a Bosun, or Boatswains duties. And I was speaking of a pirates ship, as I seriously doubt they would have had a Captain, a 1st LT, 2nd LT, 3rd LT, 4th LT, 5th LT, a Master, a Masters Mate, a pilot, and about a dozen other Royal Navy officers that would be found on a Royal Navy ship of any era.

I also looked at the Duties of Naval Officers, 1797 and I did not see anything regarding the Boatswain's position in rank on the ship. However, it concides with what I stated was the duties of the Boatswain, or BosunA Short Account of the Several General Duties of Officers of Ships of War

Update: Upon looking thru my notes, the statement of a Bosun being #4 came from either Patrick O'Brian's "Men-of-War" or Richard O'Niell's "Patrick O'Brian's Navy".

[King's Pyrate]

I think that in the Royal Navy, it would depend on the size of the ship. In most cases positions 1 thru 4 would be commissioned officers with Bosun being a warrant. In some cases of small ships Bosun may have very well been the #4 with perhaps only the Captain, First Lieutenant and a midshipman above him.

In today’s US Navy, Bosun is the senior enlisted Rate. In military affairs the Bosun Mate is in charge of all equally ranked Petty Officers.

Your research is very good. I would enjoy visiting your site. Please let me know when it is up again.

joe@josephlosteen.com

KP

[Charity]

Thanks Steele :)

I meant on a pirate ship, so that's just the explanation i needed.

I was kinda confused, because it seems on the Black Pearl the guy playing Bosun had the rank of both Bosun and Quartermaster.

Very confusing.

[Silver Steele]

I gotta tell ya Charity, trying to "decode" the ranks, duties, and everything else that goes with the Royal Navy is seriously like trying to decode an encrypted message. They were sometimes very precise on matters in their "manuals" or "handbooks", and at other times they were very vague. And then you have to take into consideration how they changed over several hundred years.

And to agree with Pyrate, it would depend upon the size of the ship and how many crew members/troops would have been on board. Some ships had only a bare bones crew, while full fledged ships of the line may have had 20+ "officers", not including their assistants (Cooks Mate, Carpenters Mate, Gunners Mate, etc.)

I think on a pirate ship, they would have had a chain of command, but they would not have had all the specified officers. Basically a Captain (however he came to the position he did), a Quartermaster, a Bosun, some kind of Navigator and Pilot, and a Master Gunner. Other than that, they probably did the best they could with other matters, such as a Surgeon or Cook. (If they even had a person that had any medical background for a Surgeon or Doc.) They wouldn't have done the ships bells or anything really official like the Royal Navy. However, some like Drake and Roberts did do things a little more officially than others. If you had a small ship like a sloop, you wouldn't need all the extra "officers", but if you had a larger ship, say a Brig, you would need the extra "officers", and with a ship of the line you would need all the "officers".

As for my website, I only had it up about a week or so, and as I added things from my library I quickly realized that I needed to organize it in a much easier fashion to navigate on the web. Im not really sure if I'm gonna have it reorganized with what I had on it in a few days, especially since I'm doing all the graphics and adding flash menus to it.

And BTW, this is a little bit OT, but does anyone know what the advantages of using Dreamweaver vs. Front Page is other than the ability to do flash menus on the fly? If so, will you PM me please.

[Nomadicalpirate]

It be my understanding that bosun and quartermaster were(are) not all that different in rank, but simply have different duties.

The Quartermaster in charge of matters to do with the crew, ie. food, clothes etc.

and the bosun in command of matters to do with the ship itself. rigging, repairs and whatnot.

[Charity]

Makes sense :)

Thanks guys, in POTC there were just Barbossa and bosun giving orders, so i wasn't sure what would be the quarter master.

It's a lot more clear now :)

[Fox]

The question of the quartermaster is one that has always vexed me. On a Royal Navy ship, and as far as records show on merchant ships generally, the quartermaster was lower ranking than the boatswain. Also, there were four of them except on the smallest ships, when there might only be two. Why then the Quartermaster (singular) should supplant the boatswain in pirates crews I have no idea.

To say that the boatswain was in charge of supplies such as food is probably erroneous. On smaller ships maybe, but generally the supply of food and clothing was the province of the purser. Also, the boatswain did not generally oversee the work of the carpenter, he was not qualified to do so. The carpenter was responsible for the ship's structure below deck, and often the masts, while the boatswain was responsible for the ship above deck, ie all rope, tackle and canvas.

And btw, according to a 17th century scale of pay a 1st rate RN ship had 47 officers, not including mates. There were 19 mates, so the total would be 66 officers of one form or another.

[Charity]

Bloody H*ll

That's a lot, considering the ships were smaller then the ones we have now.

That's mad, so many officicers..i wonder what good it did having that many?

[Nomadicalpirate]

I've nothing knew to add, but to defend my honour and what i thought was a pretty informative reply.

I didn't mean the bosun actually repaired or rigged anything, but if the crew-members whos job it was didn't do it, they'd have to answer to him

similar with the QM

[Fox]

Nomad, I quite agree, the boatswain was responsible for the rigging, and as I said, everything else above the deck. I only said he didn't oversee the carpenter's work, which was everything below the deck. Although the Boatswain was a higher ranking officer than the carpenter he did not have much if any jurisdiction over him professionally.

I've just found a later scale of pay: In 1686 there were 94 officers on a first rate (including mates). This figure (and the one in my earlier post) is slightly misleading, for I have included anyone who was not able seaman, seaman or grommet; thus I have included people like the cook and yeomen of the powder room, who were paid slightly more and had specific duties but whose authority did not extend outside the galley and powder room respectively.

Incidentally, in the pay scale quoted earlier (1626) a 1st rate RN ship had 4 quartermasters, 60 years later there were 8.

Writing in the second quarter of the 17th century Admiral William Monson describes the boatswain's duties thus:

"...to have the charge of all the cordage, tackling, sails, fids and marline spikes, needles, twine, sailcloth and rigging of the ship...

As the master commands the tacking of the ship, the hoisting or striking of the yard, the taking in or putting forth the sails, upon the winding of the master's whistle the boatswain takes it with his, and sets the sailors with courage to do their work, every one of them knowing by their whistle what they are to do...

In a fight he must see the yards slung, top-armours and waist cloths, the flag and pendants put forth, and call up every man to his labour and office. The boatswain serves for a provost-marshal to commit all offenders. And to conclude, his and his mates' work is never at an end, for it is impossible to repeat all the offices that are put upon them."

And the quartermasters' thus:

"The quartermasters are four, and every one has his mate; they have the charge of the hold for stowage, rummaging and trimming the ship in hold. they have their squadron in the watch, and see that every one do his office both by day and by night: they have a care to look to the steerage and the traverse-board."

Hope that helps.

[Fox]

I was enjoying this thread and it doesn't seem to be moving, so for that reason, and for the sake of completeness I thought I'd post a full list of RN officers. This list is taken from the 1686 pay scale, the numbers in brackets denote how many of that officer there were on a first rate ship, no number denotes only one. They are in descending order of pay, so presumably are also in rough order of seniority

Captain

Lieutenant (3)

Master

Boatswain

Gunner

Purser

Carpenter (Boatswain, gunner, Purser and Carpenter all paid the same)

Mates and Pilots (6)

Surgeon

Midshipmen (18)

Captain's Clerk

Yeoman of the Powder Room (2)(paid same as Midshipmen and clerk)

Carpenter's Mate (2)

Quartermaster (8)

Boatswain's Mate (2)

Corporal

Gunner's Mate (2) (Paid same as Boatswain's mates, Quartermasters and corporal)

Yeomen of the Sheets (4)

Coxswain (paid the same as Yeomen of the sheets)

Coxswain's Mate

Quartermaster's Mate (4)

Surgeon's Mate (2)

Master Trumpeter (paid the same as Quarter Masters' and Surgeon's mates)

Sailmaker

Quarter Gunner (8)

Ordinary Carpenter (10)

Steward

Cook

Armourer

Gunsmith (paid the same as Steward, cook and armourer)

Ordinary Trumpeter (5)

Able Seaman (Many)

Steward's Mate

Ordinary Seaman (Many)

Grommets

Boys

There ya go.

[Charity]

My god..how would anyone be able to remember them all.

Nice list

Thanks for posting this

[Jolie Rouge]

Alot o' what I've read says that on pyrate ships the quartermaster held an (theoreticly) equal footin with the capn, cept fer times of action (chase, boardin, or runnin), at which point the cap'n was not ta be questioned. Only reference I kin sight out o' memory be "Under The Black Flag" though I seen it elswheres. An' the quartermaster was generaly actin' in the interest o' the crew.

Bos'uns tended ta do.....bos'unry. An' bos'uns taday still bein' what they 'ave fer the past few centuries, tend ta 'ave very little interest in the crews well bein'.