Reformed stitch nazis confesses

[Gentleman of Fortune]

*is there some kind of rehab group for re-enactors*?

Ok I admit it, I am a stitch nazi. There I have said, it and I feel better already.

But over the years and especially recently, I have discovered that I am not the center of the universe as I had originally thought.

Every day, people live their lives and have good days and bad days with sunshine and rain.....

I can't change the world and I am not the patron saint of re-enacting.

That doesn't mean that I do not still highly value authenticiy and trying to replicate the past with anal retentive obsession.

It just means that I do what I do and I let others do what they do.

For After all, we go to Pirate FESTIVALS. Its a festival. Wear what you want and have fun.

And if there are ever events that say 1710-1725 kits only, than I hope that is what shows up and I hope that others respect that.

I think they will

group hug?

[Lady Seahawke]

tis a find gent, grand pirate, and good man tat sees ta error of his ways...and as such have mug or two on me... so, tis will'n to participate in ta group hugs...

{{{hugs}}} and hope that if I ever meet ya at a fest...ye'll be forgiv'ns fer me duds...as tis a fantasy pirate as such...be'n a lass and dress'n to match me character bio...smile...

[DocF225]

Not sure about the Hug, but I applaud yer enlightened attitude .

This is after all a Hobby (at least for me)and should be seen as such.

If'n I wanted to be Inspected everyday I'd still be in the service.

[maudelynn]

Hello Fine Gent,

I am indeed glad you have changed your ways a bit! Since you brought up the subject I shall share my feelings on this topic.

Being a Lady most of my life and having my clothes made by others I just started sewing seriously about a year and a half ago. I seem to have a knack for it and feel very lucky of the fact. But not everyone is as grand a sewer as others may be. I know I am still learning everday, why the lovely lass Kass helped me just yesterday with draping a gown. I know, from experience, how badly it hurts when you have tried your best on something and people cut it to shreds. It takes alot of courage for some people to even put on something that is usually seen as a costume and walk around in it, much less make it. Most people are so happy to be able to do that alone and have fun. Then when someone comes up and criticizes it can be ever so cruel, sometimes even making the person stop doing costuming or going to events or Faires at all. I always think the happy smile someone wears as well as their outfit make authenticity a bit trivial at times. I am always so tickled that people even try. For most people their real life is such that it is a big change to even try and I applaud them for that

We all have our strong points, someone who may not be able to sew may be able to fix my toilet and for that I am grateful. The person who keeps my car running for a fair price may not know where the term sleazy came from but you can be sure I depend on him and would gladly take him to any event with me :}

With respect

[Capt Grey]

I've said this with the Star Wars costuming Nazis and I'll say it about re-enactors: The fault is in not being historically accurate/canon, but in they way they are so snobbish about it.

A better approach would be to offer to help the budding costumer make their costume more period-accurate. A newbie always wants to learn and helping them learn should be the goal, not criticizing.

[Captain Jim-sib]

In Tony Horwitz's Confederates in the Attic, he relates his encounters with re-enactors who strive for accuracy. Some would not wash their costumes/garbs after summer time events claiming that the smell and stains would make it more authentic. Non-authentic items and dress was ridiculed by hard core re-enactors. The term some used was "FARBY"...being short for "Far Being From Accurate". This may be true, yet when dealing with the public at faires and festivals, especially if one wants to be invited back or referenced, certain aspects of historical "accuracy" should be politely curtailed. From the events that I have attended, it is the children that get off the most on the pirate dress, and the gleam in their parents' eyes tells me that they are excited about this interaction, and nit-picking accuracy is not high on the list.

[Paisley]

never really got into it with nazi, but always wondered if those far-winged people got to their faire on horseback....

just a thought

[Rumba Rue]

The first year the Southern Ren-faire moved to Devore, I worked in the costume department. I had to 'judge' people's costumes for looks. I let a whole lot of people slide by cuz I didn't see anything wrong. I later got the crap thrown at me by Leslie Patterson who was then running things, who told me I wasn't doing my job right!

The only time I said no to anyone that season was some gal who showed up in bright neon royal blue outfits for herself and her husband as peasants. The gal bitched left and right at me, but hey, neon blue ain't gonna pass anyone's judgement!

I rarely say anything about anyone's costume anymore, as I ususally don't care. Though more than once I've offered suggestions on how to improve their look, which done properly are welcome ideas to the costume wearer.

Though I do laugh at those who insist on wearing Nikes with their costumes, and Nobel gals whose hoops don't fit right with the skirts -you know, the ones you can see all the hoop ribbing or hanging below the skirt or the skirt itself is way too short and they look like someone who should have a cane and herding sheep.

But you can bet, I'll never, ever wear Nikes with my costumes!

Rumba Rue

**You never learn to swear until you've learned to sew**

[William Brand]

Ye be fine. Relax and enjoy the pub. All is forgiven when a pint passes between mates.

But that does remind me of a story. I once had a "Stitch Nazi", as you put it, get in me face about the material I used in an outfit. He was quite uppity that me outfit wasn't "period".

I just smiled me slow patient smile and looked at the white sneakers he was wearin' under his garb and cleared me throat.

He didn't skip a beat. He then attacked me hat.

I just smiled and kept on smiling until he was quite through. Then I went on enjoying myself.

[maudelynn]

He didn't skip a beat. He then attacked me hat.

Attacked your hat ?? Ohhow dare he ? He was quiet a lucky upstart that it was such a relaxed and fine pirate as your self he was belittling the hat of. In some pirates eyes you should as soon mess with your own heart beat as to attack a man's hat!

Here is a free round and a kiss on the cheek for your patience and knowing when an impertinent ship jumper is not worth the effort of sharpening your tounge on !

[TabithaAnne]

I'm some of the fine people here participated but I was rummaging through pictures of my mom's and found pics of the ren faire in the 60's. They had NOOOOO idea what historical accuracy was. Faire is supposed to be fun not having to worry about whether your trim is the right percentage of natural fibers. Eventually I do plan on making a historically accurate pirate outfit for those events that I go on boats for, or for the time period. But for most of the faires I go to they are for fun so that's why I wear the fun costume. It really irritates me when one person thinks that just because a jacket is made out of upholstery fabric it's no good. It ruins the idea of why we are at faire TO HAVE FUN! Some of the jackets I've seen are gorgeous but not even close to be "period proper."

I shall step off my soap box now. Thank you for your time.....

-Stacy

[Stynky Tudor]

I do what I do and I let others do what they do.

For After all, we go to Pirate FESTIVALS.  Its a festival.  Wear what you want and have fun.

Stop!

Don’t you know what you’re say man?

Everyone knows that once ye been pressed into the cult, I mean crew, you’re not allowed to just get up and leave, much less do what ever ye wants. I mean bad chain letter type things might happen to us all, stars might fall from the sky, polar ice caps might melt, the planets could misalign.

Oh disaster! What has the world come? Good pirates be throwing faire festival fashion to the wind or worse, overboard. Oh for shame. . . .for shame.

(burp)

[AkashaZuul]

I've just always believed that any real person from history would have been so damn excited to have even a scrap of the amazing fabric we have around today (microfiber nylon and ultrasuede, anyone?), they'd have used it too! Good gosh, what self respecting peasant *wouldn't* have loved a nice stretchy t-shirt? No more embarrassing "rear" accidents at court when you bend over in those snug 1770's court pants, now with 5% Lycra!

I applaud anyone who takes the time to make their own clothing and costumes, even if it's hot pink and fits into no real time period imaginable. After trying to attain perfection myself for a while, I read that 1700's seamstresses would have never even considered cutting strips on the bias. . . it would have been considered a terrible waste of fabric that was so expensive back then. Hacking away in my basement at fabric that I bought 3 yards extra of "just in case" makes me realize how lucky I am to have Jo-Ann's 50% off coupons, and access to such great (if not totally 100% accurate) fabrics.

[Paisley]

AkashaZuul Posted on Aug 23 2004, 10:14 PM

I applaud anyone who takes the time to make their own clothing and costumes, even if it's hot pink and fits into no real time period imaginable

is that a hint akasha??????

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I am not too sure about "not wasting" fabric in 1700s fashion. Maybe for the lower classes, but for the rich, the idea was ot show that you could AFFORD lots of expensive fabric.

But I digress....

I think the problem that mature "stitch nazis" have (or at least me) is when someone is trying to REPRESENT a Golden Age of Piracy pirate to the public. I think there is a line (and not too fine a line either) between having fun at a festival (in a fun costume) and trying to eductate the public.

I have often seen folks with very unauthentic costumes in front of the public saying "this is what a 1710 pirate wore" and "this is what they did" when a pirate most certainly did not wear East German Jackboots, nor did he have a polyester joustaucoprs and cary a late 18th century flintlock.

So if ones intent is to be a "living historian" and "educate the public" I think that there should be a higher standard of authenticity. But for eveyone else who just wants to have fun, drink, and shout arrrrrr!, Live and let live

[AkashaZuul]

AkashaZuul Posted on Aug 23 2004, 10:14 PM

I applaud anyone who takes the time to make their own clothing and costumes, even if it's hot pink and fits into no real time period imaginable

is that a hint akasha??????

Make thyself a pink garment of the finest polyester, and wear it proudly with style and grace!

Hmm. Upon further consideration, I guess it comes down to this. . . if you're going to represent yourself and your attire as "period correct" for reenactment or educational purposes, you owe it to yourself and those you educate to make an effort to get as accurate as possible. If you screw up, be prepared to be viciously corrected by other stitch nazis.

If you are not going around saying "I'm too sexy for my period clothes", wear what the heck makes you happy, accurate or not.

Like pink!

Sort of what Gentleman of Fortune said. Yeah!

I'd check up on the sources of the fabric usage, though, Gentleman. I was surprised to read that myself. What I also found interesting was that most silk dresses in museum collections have been redone a number of times, and often have to be "repaired" to their original style because the silk was changed over periods of decades to reflect current styles. Why would they do that if fabric wasn't rare and expensive? The book on the collection from Colonial Williamsburg talks about this phenomenon, I believe.

[blackjohn]

I think the problem that mature "stitch nazis" have (or at least me) is when someone is trying to REPRESENT a Golden Age of Piracy pirate to the public. I think there is a line (and not too fine a line either) between having fun at a festival (in a fun costume) and trying to eductate the public.

The situation comes to a head at festivals like Hampton Blackbeard Festival, where both types are comingled -- the "less than authentic" and the "authentic" are side by side. I think this rubs some authenticity types the wrong way, since environments such as these will lend an air of legitimacy to the less than authentic, due to the fact that the unknowing public will assume both are equally correct.

Here's an example of something that can happen at one of these festivals. A spectator at such an event approaches the "authentic," and asks some questions about the life and times of pirates, clothing, et cetera. Then said person asks the "authentic" about the clothing of the "less than authentic" pirate" standing alongside. Things get a bit tricky at that point, because now you have to educate the public about different schools of pirate "re-enacting."

Eh... kicking into taoist mode... it all comes down to the ego, and expectations...

oops, sorry...

Ok, something else I've been thinking about, I believe there is a correlation between the reputation attached to the "less than authethic" pirates by site directors at historic venues, and difficulties I've had in trying to convince these site directors to allow pirate re-enactments at their sites.

Blackjohn

[TabithaAnne]

Gentleman of Fortune-I agree with you fully! I go through this every year at Southern with the group I am with. The basic dress for the women has no documentation of how it is period. I have been told by the costume mistress herself that the dress was just something she came up with but yet when others talk to her she insists that it is historically correct.....it's really irritating. That's one of the reasons I went with the colors and fabrics I did on my costume. There's NO WAY that it can even remotely be considered historically accurate and I would NEVER tell someone that it is.

Hmmmm.....neon pink frock coat.....could be interesting.

[William Brand]

Attacked your hat ?? Ohhow dare he ? He was quiet a lucky upstart that it was such a relaxed and fine pirate as your self he was belittling the hat of. In some pirates eyes you should as soon mess with your own heart beat as to attack a man's hat!

Here is a free round and a kiss on the cheek for your patience and knowing when an impertinent ship jumper is not worth the effort of sharpening your tounge on !

The lad was an idiot of the first order. Sooo I kept it friendly until he left.

It was quite similair to having a bee in the car and waiting for an opportune moment to pull over and let the buzzing little devil out.

[blackjohn]

Hmmmm.....neon pink frock coat.....could be interesting.

Pink...

Pink is good.

When I got tired of doing RevWar, and was looking for something different, I was more than half-tempted to re-enact either a Hessian RevWar or Prussian SYW unit, both of which wore blue coats with turned up with pink.

Blackjohn

[Gentleman of Fortune]

IS it possible that the present (and last century) are the only times that people thought that pink wasn't cool?

oooops... even the dreaded nazis used it as color indication for the armor troops on their black uniforms! (even the evil sinister ss panzer divisions!)

I thought about using the Pink and Green combination on a Napoleonic Dragoon impression...

Pinks ok with me.

And any of the pastel colors seemed to be hip in the 18th Century.

AkashaZuul

I didn't mean to imply that the fabric was not expensive.... I fully understand that it was very expensive. My point was that, for the rich, that is one of reasons that they used so much of it in their clothing. My silk grosgrain jousaucorps used about 6 yards of fabric!

It shows off how much money you have... or in my case how stupid I am to spend that much money on something that I have worn 3 times in the last 4 years!

And because the fabric itself was so expensive, they re-used it later.

[Red Maria]

IS it possible that the present (and last century) are I thought about using the Pink and Green combination on a Napoleonic Dragoon impression...

It worked for Capt. Ned of the raging Queen! John Beluchi in a hot pink and lime green satin pirate outfit! From an old SNL skit about a young lad named Miles Copperswaite played by Michael Palin.

Ah the memories! :)

[Hawkyns]

Said it before and I'll say it again- location, location, location. Ya plays by the rules of the site, whatever they may be. If you're at a historic site and they have strict rules and jurying, play their rules or don't play. At a fair or festival with relaxed or no standards, wear what you are comfortable with.

When it comes to historic sites and re-enactments, I'm the biggest hardass stitch counter you ever want to meet. It serves me well and it's got me into places that most people don't get to see.

At fair, I relax and have fun. I'm currently working on a fantasy pirate costume for Gwen based on a Clive Caldwell drawing ('Treasure Chest' for those who know his work. Got to modify it a bit because of the damn stupid rules about nudity). Hope to have it for MD Ren Faire Pirate Invasion.

What people need to realise is that there is no 'one size fits all' rule. Standards vary by site and event. If you don't like the rules for one, either adapt to them or don't go. If you want to wear pink chiffon, don't expect to get invited to a museum.

I've spent more hours than I care to think about staring at period portraits and artwork, trying to figure out how something was made. If I'm at a site where it counts, then I get PO'd at somebody who tries to skive around the rules, If I can do the work, I expect everyone to do likewise. If I'm at fair, I like watching all the non period and fantasy eye candy just as much as the next guy.

It all depends what you call fun. I have a hell of a good time spending hours making museum reproductions. Not everyone does. Still boils down to doing what gives you the most pleasure.

Hawkyns

[Hawkyns]

Ok, something else I've been thinking about, I believe there is a correlation between the reputation attached to the "less than authethic" pirates by site directors at historic venues, and difficulties I've had in trying to convince these site directors to allow pirate re-enactments at their sites.

Blackjohn

Truer words were never said. Museum and historic site directors are walking a very fine line. On the one hand, they have to attract people to their site to pay the gate fees and keep the money flowing. On the other, they have to maintain their standard and keep their academic reputation as a legitimate site. If they have to err, it will be on the side of their academic and historic credentials.

Unfortunately, the pirate community can be it's own worst enemy. Having the attitude 'I'm a pirate, I don't have to follow rules' is not going to make many friends among site directors. It is often not appreciated among faire managers, either. It creates the impression that we are not really interested in the site, other than as a place to do waht we want, whether it relates to the site or not. Self centered and ignorant are words I've heard used.

Also unfortunately, pirates are frequently out of period for many sites and faires. Tricorns and 'captains coats' are 120 years after the Elizabethan period, which is the basis for the majority of fairs. Many other events bill themselves as being of that period and the coats and hats are just as out of place. Ren faires can either be accepting or not and it doesn't take long to find out how your kit is going over. Same goes for other events. I know I was royally pissed to see tricorns, long coats and Queen Anne pistols at Pennsic. There are a number of us who are on staff who are working to make enforcement of the pre-1600 rule a lot more harsh. A number of historic sights that I work with are doing the same, but they have more clout to enforce the rules.

Even if you are wearing 1720's kit and working with an early 18th c site, you can still be unwelcome. The average mariner of the period did not walk around dripping skulls and crossbones. Advertising yourself as a 'pirate' was a quick way to get an introduction to the hangman. If you were not in a very few cities that had a looser attitude, you were not welcome. So you have tobe realistic in your portrayal if you want to use a historic site. So a huge collection of skulls, celtic knotwork, and enough crap hanging off your belt to rival Batman's utility belt won't please the director of interpretation, either.

Not meaning to rant here, I just think there are ways we can help ourselves to get more events and venues to play, if we consider what the site wants, instead of what we want to do.

Hawkyns

[Cascabel]

So a huge collection of skulls, celtic knotwork, and enough crap hanging off your belt to rival Batman's utility belt won't please the director of interpretation, either.

Aye, Hawkyns !!!

There are way too many pirates (and Renny's too) that look like walking junkyards....

>>>> Cascabel