Scandanavian Pirates?

[Captain Morgana Bloodheart]

Aside from the Vikings, has anybody come across any information if fthere were any well known, or lesser known Norwegain/Swedish pirates during the Golden Age of Piracy?

M. Bloodheart

[Kon-Tiki]

Closest I could find, was some woman called Alwida, but it's not in the Golden Age of piracy. Was around the Viking age as well.

[Kon-Tiki]

Saxo Grammaticus included the tale of Alwida (aka Alfhild, Alvilda)--who dressed in male attire and became a pirate rather than marry the King of Denmark's son--in his history of the Danes. Only after Prince Alf captured her did he learn that the infamous pirate was his intended and they wed aboard his ship. There remains some question as to whether Alwida was a viking pirate or whether she lived before the Viking Age and many historians believe her tale is a myth.

-> That's a short summary 'bout her. Will keep on searching.

Edit:Also found something 'bout an article in preparation that's called "Pirate Kingdom: Sweden 1562-1583.", written by Jason Lavery.

[Redd Oktober]

Not really a pirate ship...but the Vasa was pretty...BEFORE SHE SANK!

BTW...I be Swedish...does that count?

[Captain Morgana Bloodheart]

-> That's a short summary 'bout her. Will keep on searching.

Edit:Also found something 'bout an article in preparation that's called "Pirate Kingdom: Sweden 1562-1583.", written by Jason Lavery.

Thank ye Kon Tiki!

"Pirate Kingdon" sounds like an interesting read!!

[Captain Morgana Bloodheart]

BTW...I be Swedish...does that count?

Of course it helps me Scandanavian homie! I be half Norwegian! To be honest! I look like the poster child for all Viking women everywhere.

[Lady Seahawke]

Hey, m'grandpap came from Norway in the early part of the 1900's...he met me grandmum (British) on the ship and they got married when they got to US shores...

[the Royaliste]

Not really a pirate ship...but the Vasa was pretty...BEFORE SHE SANK!

BTW...I be Swedish...does that count?

Bloody 'eck!! Me too! Me pop wuz Carl Gustav, an' me granpop wuz Erik Carl.....Buncha Swedes........An' besides, I figure NOW be the 'golden age 'o piracy'!! :)

[Captain Morgana Bloodheart]

Aye! It looks like we some of that hot Viking blood in us! ARRRG!!!

[Lady Seahawke]

ok, now a bit research and...

Viking/ Pirates

Princess Sela c. 420 A.D., Norwegian Viking

Princess Rusla Norwegian Viking.

Russila and her sister Stikla Norwegian Viking.

Wigbiorg 800s A.D., Viking.

Hetha 800s A.D., Viking.

Wisna 800s A.D., Viking.

Alfhild, a.k.a. ÆÆlfhild, Alwilda, Alvilda post-850 A.D. (some wrongly say. 450 A.D.), Swedish Viking.

Ladgerda c. 870 A.D., Viking

ÆÆthelflææd "Lady of the Mercias."

And will look just a bit more...smile...

[Mission]

Were Vikings considered pirates? They would seem to be...

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Viking were as pirates as they come.

He was interesting gaop pirate http://brethrencoast...o/derdrake.html also there were (I think) suprisingy many swedes in "normal" caribbean crews. There were also north europeans in navies as well e.g HMS Victory had them in 1805.

Quoting Foxe when I asked about swedes and gaop " There were a few Swedish pirates, usually in predominantly English crews. I can't recall details off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure that one of John Quelch's company was a Swede" and I have found e.g Peter Cornelius Hoof who was a pirate (or forced man aboard Whydah.

Being Finn I am always interested in north european pirates in gaop...

Edited June 14, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Mission]

Did they attack other ships at sea or was the sea just their means of attacking land-based settlements? (My knowledge of vikings is quite limited.)

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Well robbery on the coast is piracy but they propably atacced ships as well. I have neither much info about them...

[Mission]

Is robbery on the coast technically piracy? If you took a train to a town and robbed it, you couldn't call that a train robbery. (Specious, yes, I know. However, piracy is usually recognized as being something that takes place on the water - not from it.)

We had this debate on another website, but I don't recall it ever coming to a successful conclusion on this point. I DO recall it sort of depending on what time period's definition you wanted to use. At some point, courts in one country defined piracy as "robbery on the high seas", but someone (probably Foxe) produced some ruling or definition closer to the GAoP that didn't mention the 'high' part.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Well from wiki but: "Piracy is an act of robbery or criminal violence at sea. The termcan include a committed acts on land, in the air, or in the Other of major body of water or on a shore. Normally it does not include a committed crimes against persons traveling on the vessel from same as the perpetrator (eg one passenger stealing from others on the vessel from same). The term has Been Used To Refer Thurs raids across land borders by non-state agents"

[Daniel]

The Caribbean island of St. Thomas was Danish during the early 18th century, and was a frequent place for pirates (including Captain Kidd) to sell their plunder. Stede Bonnet intended to get a privateering commission at St. Thomas, but never made it there. I don't know if any actual Danes joined the pirate crews there, although "Danskers" were common enough on English ships in general.

I have trouble accepting the Vikings as pirates for two reasons: 1) Norse law regarded Viking raids as simple warfare and entirely legal; 2) Christian Europeans didn't treat captured Viking raiders differently from any other captured Norsemen - i.e. as heathens they could be treated just about any way their captors wanted - so it's not clear that Christian Europeans regarded them as pirates either. I'm not sure you need both of those elements to have piracy, but I do think you need one or the other.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Oh I was about to metion that but I forgot. thanks Daniel.

[Mission]

See, this where we get into trouble with privateers. That was legal according to the country that sent them, but illegal according to the country they were attacking. It's all relative.

[Fox]

I have trouble accepting the Vikings as pirates for two reasons: 1) Norse law regarded Viking raids as simple warfare and entirely legal; 2) Christian Europeans didn't treat captured Viking raiders differently from any other captured Norsemen - i.e. as heathens they could be treated just about any way their captors wanted - so it's not clear that Christian Europeans regarded them as pirates either. I'm not sure you need both of those elements to have piracy, but I do think you need one or the other.

I also have difficulty accepting Vikings as pirates, for those reasons and because the vast majority of Viking raiding occurred on land. Sure, they used boats to get to the land, but they rarely (if ever) took vessels at sea.

The word 'piracy' might be used in reference to acts committed on land, but it's not a strictly accurate use. It can also be used today to describe software theft and in the 18th century was used to describe plagiarism, but they're not act of actual piracy per se. In English law at least, piracy was defined as robbery at sea or on tidal bodies of water including estuaries. Once you set foot on land it becomes simple robbery, not piracy

See, this where we get into trouble with privateers. That was legal according to the country that sent them, but illegal according to the country they were attacking. It's all relative.

That's something of a misconception. Privateering was seen by most nations as a legitimate form of warfare, provided that the privateer held a valid commission from a recognised state and that a state of war existed between the privateer's country and their victim's. This is where the misconception comes in. Drake, for example, was considered a pirate by the Spanish because he (probably) didn't actually have a commission, and at the time of his 'privateering' England and Spain were not at war. In another scenario, Jacobite 'privateers' were treated as pirates under English law because James Stuart, in whose name their commissions were issued, was not recognised by the English state as representing a legitimate state. Some Jacobite privateers tried to get around it by taking French commissions, but then they were guilty of treason for taking a foreign commission against their own country. However, American privateers in the Revolution, for example, or French privateers during any of the wars against England, were treated as prisoners of war if they were captured.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Hmmm also buccaneers who were privateers done mostly port blundering (but took ships as well) so are many buccaneer raids e.g Panama even privateering or piracy since they happened on land (buccaneers even attaced on land)?

[Fox]

That's one of the reasons that I generally don't include 'buccaneer' evidence when discussing pirates...

[Mission]

I think I'm going to walk the line between sea surgery and pirate surgeons in my historical article and leave the vikings out completely. (I want to include Wafer. He's my favorite sea surgeon from the period. If I were one of those people who Quixotically tries to portray an historical character, I would try and portray Wafer. He was a surgeon-writer with a fine sense of humor and a rather open-minded view of the world.)

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Hmmm do you have the " a fine sense of humor "

Vikings were a quite different than many other pirates so Mission leave them be that is wise....