Making a full kit in four months

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Ok so he past few nights I've been throwing some half awake effort at prepping a natural dye batch for a sample swatch. The steps, as unthorough as they have been were as follows:

1) buy pound of black beans.. dump in container and cover with water. Refill as it gets absorbed. Let sit for 24 hours

2) buy small bottle of alum powder (which is in the spice section but I have no idea what food use it has). Boil water, pour boiling water over alumn powder and stir till dissolved. (I used .5 litre of water to about 3/4 tsp alumn, all non precise measures) While dissolving, strain beans out of water

3) soak fabric swatch on alumn water for about 20 minutes. Probably should have done longer but this seemed to be the minimum requirement.

4)rinsed mordant from fabric, threw it in the dryer so I didn't have to wait to dye it.

5)dipped it in the bean water, making sure fo swish and make sure everything got covered. Let it sit for 24 hours.

6) pulled out dyed fabric and rinsed a few times. Rinse didn't cause any run off and color looks pretty good.

Now sitting in the sun to dry.

[michaelsbagley]

I'm not a culinary expert, but I think allum is used in baking, especially with merangues or other things with lots of whipped egg as an agent to help preserve/prolong the frothing of the eggs (and likely other frothy things). I thinks it's universally optional, but some "more serious" bakers prefer it for the slightly improved results.

[madPete]

I remember my mom using alum when pickling cucumbers. It supposedly keeps the pickle firm. But I also read something about alum being toxic in large amounts.

Since those were black beans, I assume the dye is black or brown, or a dark gray? The color on my monitor looks like gray.

Congrats on the efforts to make dye from a natural source!

That is something I was researching because somewhere I read that there were no bright green natural dyes. There were natural green dyes, but not like we see today. They used the dyes for yellow and blue to get green. whether mixed dyes or separate dye steps, is unclear to me so far.

[madPete]

PS... DID you maked baked beans also? LOL

 

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

so here is the dried results....

I'm pretty pleased all things considered, especially since I was rather half assing the trial.  Moreso even then how well the dye took, I'm also pleased with the color and think it would go well with the color skirts I have (a consideration of vast import cause I don't want to have to have two separate Mantuas to coordinate)

17 hours ago, madPete said:

Since those were black beans, I assume the dye is black or brown, or a dark gray? The color on my monitor looks like gray.

Congrats on the efforts to make dye from a natural source!

It's a blueish grey....think maybe a slate color? Or maybe a It probably would have been more blue then grey if I had started with a bleached/white fabric. Using black beans can get your from a light blue grey to a truer blue to a dark version of those based on fabrics, mordants and dye times and pH levels. You can also even get it to be a purple tone if you change the ph on it with an acidic.  Apparently 

 

[madPete]

i have a good amount of white linen and thinking about dyeing some of it.

Have you run across a formula for blue and white checks? LOL

At the current time I'm undecided what color to dye it. My last shirt batch was just before Ft Gaines and I'm pretty set for shirts now. Maybe I should just make white rev war waistcoats... If it was another color I would make waistcoats, but white doesnt lend itself to much else unless you dye it.

[Morgan Dreadlocke]

3 hours ago, Tudor MercWench Smith said:

so here is the dried results....

I'm pretty pleased all things considered, especially since I was rather half assing the trial.  Moreso even then how well the dye took, I'm also pleased with the color and think it would go well with the color skirts I have (a consideration of vast import cause I don't want to have to have two separate Mantuas to coordinate)

It's a blueish grey....think maybe a slate color? Or maybe a It probably would have been more blue then grey if I had started with a bleached/white fabric. Using black beans can get your from a light blue grey to a truer blue to a dark version of those based on fabrics, mordants and dye times and pH levels. You can also even get it to be a purple tone if you change the ph on it with an acidic.  Apparently 

 

Have Ye tried wild black rice? Turns pork or anything else cooked with it a dark bluish black.

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

I have not tried that as this has been my first foray into dying anything, but I will have to keep that in mind. Now that I know this works I have to decide if it's worth trying to scale it up to be able to dye six yards

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Ok, finally back at the mantua project after several weeks.

I'm not crazy about how I have the side gores kinds of pleated into the seams, but I think that is as much a cut/fabric/hasty stitching issue rather then any kind of functional misunderstanding. 

Working on the facings etc tonight, and hopefully the pleating, but looking down the pike, can anyone explain why the shape to the cut of the sleeves? Is there a functional reason for this or can I just plan on doing sleeves the way I know how to come the next trial?

[michaelsbagley]

What facet of the sleeve shape isn't sitting right with you?

I've noticed the "suggested" pleating as per the out-of-box (bag) pattern tends to be too much (too snug) for almost every one I have made.... So I can suggest up front, easing the pleating on the sleeves a fair bit.

Is the shape the opening? How it has what might seem like a steep arc to it? (going to go on a limb and answer to this assumption, let me know if I was wrong so I can try and be more helpful)... But the way the opening arcs, allows the cuffs once attached, to hang in a manner that will have the outside slightly lower than the inside (when your arms are comfortably hanging at your sides) as is depicted in much of the period art-work. I don't think there is any function to this, I think it is just the "fashion of the time" being different from modern fashion/comfort standards, and so seems weird.

[Mary Diamond]

On 8/25/2024 at 8:49 PM, Tudor MercWench Smith said:

Ok, finally back at the mantua project after several weeks.

I'm not crazy about how I have the side gores kinds of pleated into the seams, but I think that is as much a cut/fabric/hasty stitching issue rather then any kind of functional misunderstanding. 

Working on the facings etc tonight, and hopefully the pleating, but looking down the pike, can anyone explain why the shape to the cut of the sleeves? Is there a functional reason for this or can I just plan on doing sleeves the way I know how to come the next trial?

Late to the conversation, but I seem to recall the sleeve cuff edge always having a longer trailing edge. 

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Ok gang, back to my bedsheet nightmare....

 

But I think I got a handle on the pleating on the back . . . understanding that this is a poorly cut poly-cotton that has been hastily stitched and even more hastily pinned, the back still somehow looks something like I'd imagine it's supposed to

 

 

This might just be late night hubris and desperation to have this done, so I have done at least one upgrade to my kit for FKG in December, but I *think* if I go very carefully about it, I could make the cut on some good fabric. Allowing for all the jankiness of the poor execution, someone tell me if I am just seeing things or if this seems like the right concept?

[madPete]

wow, looks like you got it! Maybe a quick pass of the iron will help? It's hard to see past all the wrinkles.

[michaelsbagley]

What Mark said, the wrinkles make it difficult to truly tell, but at a glance, it is looking very much on the right track.

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Awww man, are you guys really going to make me get out my iron??? Allllriiiiiiight .. . . but I'm only going to do the bare minimium . .. 

Here's the results of a very lazy quick iron, and then some equally quick stitches - please ignore the flappy sleeve that was still open at the time of taking photos. Still with some issues and flaws, (and yes, I know, still wrinkly - so much for poly cotton being "easy" care and wrinkle proof), but the results make me confident (hubristic?) enough that I feel like I can make a move on an actual wearable version.  

 

 

I think I want to do the wearable version in a navy, as it's the color that will be most versatile with the existing pieces I have. I am kicking myself cause the most gorgeous "deep space blue" linen/wool blend was on sale on fabricmart . com for like $12 a yard, but I apparently went temporarily insane and didn't instantly buy it, and now it's back to $45 a yard. I have a giant roll of a kind of "homespun" cotton, pretty sure it was a home dec roll, same as what I had used to make my jacket that got turned into a waistcoat. I cut off some yardage last night and prewashing it today, and might cut it tonight. I worry that it's going to be too heavy a fabric. It's great weight for jackets, waistcoats, and would probably also make a fine riding habit. I just worry about how stiff the pleats will look, and if the sides will drape correctly when bustled up. 

If that ends up being the case, and I don't score  another find for fabric, and/or i just run out of time, I did some trial runs on outfits pairing my waistcoat with the stays and skirts, and with a bit of tailoring and/or putting some lacing up the back of the waistcoat, which probably needs to happen anyway to make it less bulky and bag like, it kinda works - rather like an underdressed riding habit, and if I put my wool frock coat on over top, it actually pulls together pretty ok - which will either free me up to wait for a fabric deal for the manuta, or to use lighter fabric I already have on hand in a different color that will only go with SOME of the pieces I already have. 

Sooo... finally some progress now that we are closing in on being a month out from the event . . . 

[madPete]

3 hours ago, Tudor MercWench Smith said:

Awww man, are you guys really going to make me get out my iron??? Allllriiiiiiight .. . . but I'm only going to do the bare minimium . .. 

Here's the results of a very lazy quick iron, and then some equally quick stitches - please ignore the flappy sleeve that was still open at the time of taking photos. Still with some issues and flaws, (and yes, I know, still wrinkly - so much for poly cotton being "easy" care and wrinkle proof), but the results make me confident (hubristic?) enough that I feel like I can make a move on an actual wearable version.  

 

 

I think I want to do the wearable version in a navy, as it's the color that will be most versatile with the existing pieces I have. I am kicking myself cause the most gorgeous "deep space blue" linen/wool blend was on sale on fabricmart . com for like $12 a yard, but I apparently went temporarily insane and didn't instantly buy it, and now it's back to $45 a yard. I have a giant roll of a kind of "homespun" cotton, pretty sure it was a home dec roll, same as what I had used to make my jacket that got turned into a waistcoat. I cut off some yardage last night and prewashing it today, and might cut it tonight. I worry that it's going to be too heavy a fabric. It's great weight for jackets, waistcoats, and would probably also make a fine riding habit. I just worry about how stiff the pleats will look, and if the sides will drape correctly when bustled up. 

If that ends up being the case, and I don't score  another find for fabric, and/or i just run out of time, I did some trial runs on outfits pairing my waistcoat with the stays and skirts, and with a bit of tailoring and/or putting some lacing up the back of the waistcoat, which probably needs to happen anyway to make it less bulky and bag like, it kinda works - rather like an underdressed riding habit, and if I put my wool frock coat on over top, it actually pulls together pretty ok - which will either free me up to wait for a fabric deal for the manuta, or to use lighter fabric I already have on hand in a different color that will only go with SOME of the pieces I already have. 

Sooo... finally some progress now that we are closing in on being a month out from the event . . . 

Ha Ha, I'm not a fan of ironing either, but I have to do it when I'm making clothing.

Not an expert on women's clothing, but it looks like others I have seen. Looking forward to seeing the finished  product!

I rarely see wool fabric in person, partly cause I'm in Arizona and it is such a crapshoot buying wool online.

After giving up on the cloak I started (wool was just too thin to look right and be warm) I realized I still dont have a warm coat so I bought some coat weight wool on eBay. We'll see when it gets here, but I'm thinking long overcoat for the relatively few events that might be cold.

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

57 minutes ago, madPete said:

Ha Ha, I'm not a fan of ironing either, but I have to do it when I'm making clothing.

Not an expert on women's clothing, but it looks like others I have seen. Looking forward to seeing the finished  product!

I rarely see wool fabric in person, partly cause I'm in Arizona and it is such a crapshoot buying wool online.

After giving up on the cloak I started (wool was just too thin to look right and be warm) I realized I still dont have a warm coat so I bought some coat weight wool on eBay. We'll see when it gets here, but I'm thinking long overcoat for the relatively few events that might be cold.

Luckily, my frock coat was made 20ish years ago, when high quality coat weight wool could be bought in store (at fabric outlets ) for like .... $9.99 a yard *crying*. It is on my list for an eventual re-do with a more correct pattern, but damn do I not want to spend the kind of money I would have to now. 

As for ironing - I am meticulous about it when I'm cutting the "good" fabric for final item, but I get so antsy about not spending too much time on my toiles that ulitmately I probably end up spending more cause of the wrinkles lol

[madPete]

9 hours ago, Tudor MercWench Smith said:

Luckily, my frock coat was made 20ish years ago, when high quality coat weight wool could be bought in store (at fabric outlets ) for like .... $9.99 a yard *crying*. It is on my list for an eventual re-do with a more correct pattern, but damn do I not want to spend the kind of money I would have to now. 

As for ironing - I am meticulous about it when I'm cutting the "good" fabric for final item, but I get so antsy about not spending too much time on my toiles that ulitmately I probably end up spending more cause of the wrinkles lol

yeah - a cloak requires 5-6 yards. Even if you can find $20yd wool its still $100+ for materials.

I opted to just make a heavy coat (maybe with optional shoulder cape). but again, we'll see what the wool looks like when it arrives. I've not had good luck buying what was advertised as "coat weight wool" online. So, short of a trip to the L.A. garment district I dont have any wool suppliers.  And yet to go the route of Burnley/Trowbridge or Booth/Draper due to limited selection and high price.

 

I had a charcoal gray civil war greatcoat that I swapped buttons on and was passable for early 18th century. Kick myself for letting it go.

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

16 hours ago, madPete said:

yeah - a cloak requires 5-6 yards. Even if you can find $20yd wool its still $100+ for materials.

I opted to just make a heavy coat (maybe with optional shoulder cape). but again, we'll see what the wool looks like when it arrives. I've not had good luck buying what was advertised as "coat weight wool" online. So, short of a trip to the L.A. garment district I dont have any wool suppliers.  And yet to go the route of Burnley/Trowbridge or Booth/Draper due to limited selection and high price.

 

I had a charcoal gray civil war greatcoat that I swapped buttons on and was passable for early 18th century. Kick myself for letting it go.

Well, the linen/wool blend I was looking at for my mantua just went on 70% sale again. Granted, it's a blend, but I can let you know what the quality is like, and then we can watch out for sales on coat weight - fabricmart . com is pretty regular with absurd sales in their linens and wools, and I've heard very good things about their quality in general. Otherwise, Kalamazoo Dry Goods is another place I window shop for wools at. It's all closeout rolls they buy from factories and manufacturers, so availability is hit or miss, but they are all "name brand" wools typically, and you can get heavyweights closer to that $20 range. 

So, ultimately, I bought out the last of the supply of the linsey-woolsey (or as they prefer to call it, "Linen/Wool Slubbed Suiting", which is not nearly as fun to say as linsey-woolsey) so I will have more then enough for my mantua, and for an undetermined future project.  

[Mary Diamond]

The mantua is coming together nicely! Looking forward to seeing the linsey-woolsey at some point in the future…

[madPete]

9 hours ago, Tudor MercWench Smith said:

Well, the linen/wool blend I was looking at for my mantua just went on 70% sale again. Granted, it's a blend, but I can let you know what the quality is like, and then we can watch out for sales on coat weight - fabricmart . com is pretty regular with absurd sales in their linens and wools, and I've heard very good things about their quality in general. Otherwise, Kalamazoo Dry Goods is another place I window shop for wools at. It's all closeout rolls they buy from factories and manufacturers, so availability is hit or miss, but they are all "name brand" wools typically, and you can get heavyweights closer to that $20 range. 

So, ultimately, I bought out the last of the supply of the linsey-woolsey (or as they prefer to call it, "Linen/Wool Slubbed Suiting", which is not nearly as fun to say as linsey-woolsey) so I will have more then enough for my mantua, and for an undetermined future project.  

linsey-woolsey... linsey-woolsey... linsey-woolsey...

<<poof>>

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Fabric is here. Color is perfect. The test yard actually washed up really nicely (am I a lunatic for washing a wool? possibly? did it work out fine? Also possibly), with only very minimal to no shrinkage, so I am tempted to cut and sew and then wash, so I don't have to worry about fraying. And also so I don't have to wait to cut and sew any longer then my work day lol.

Also, this fabric is so swoon worthy. Feels and looks more like a linen in regards to texture and drape, but definitely has the substance of a wool - like a heavy weight linen without the stiffness. 

[madPete]

sounds like nice fabric. I always wash the wool, it makes the weave tighter and less possibility of shrinkage. Boiled wool was a thing too.

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Well, i've always heard "wash the fabric the way you mean to wash the clothing" and there is no way in hell that I will dry clean it soooo..... I did use gentle and cold settings cause I didn't want any felting - which probably isn't a concern with this type of weave but still. . . hopefully progress pics tonight. 

[Tudor MercWench Smith]

Ok, I am in love with this fabric and am not unconvinced it's magic. In two nights worth of work, I have as much done as I managed on the prototype in like 2 months. It's going together beautifully, I have the body, gores and pleats done, I still need to tailor and face the front, and put in whatever means I want for pinning the skirts open/back, then it will just be the hemming/hand finishes. Holy crap, y'alll, I am going in December and I will actually have a mantua. . . .two things a month or two ago I was pretty well convinced were not going to happen. 

Pic dump below - I got as far as getting a pic of the finished pleats but my phone died before they uploaded, so those will have to wait for the big reveal at a later date.  It's not perfect, but it's actually the thing! And dang do I love the fabic and color . .. 

....Proof I do actually iron when it matters hahaha