Tavern stools - portable for events

[madPete]

William and I talked about some portable tavern stools for events. The desire was to  make them historic as possible and portable i.e. legs can be removed for shipping/transport. We also wanted them sturdy, cheap, and portable.

HAHA... Pick any two.

Being "portable" was the biggest challenge.  Thinking we could use threaded legs, to make a portable stool and still be historic looking, I proceeded to search for a tap and die tool for wood. I found one and ordered the appropriate size.  Once it came in I was a bit hesitant. The tap looked beefy enough but the die is a two handed deal made of plastic/nylon with a steel cutting bit.

I went to the local hardwood store "Timber Woodworking" and found some 1-1/4 oak dowels. They were out of most sizes/wood variations at the time, but I'll revisit again later. I also found a chunk of maple to make seats with. If you haven't priced wood lately (especially hardwood), you might be a bit surprised. Hardwood dowels are not cheap nor is maple stock in 7" X 1-3/4"  chunks. Only about $9 a foot!

Anyway, got home and proceeded to mark up and drill the prescribed hole in the seat at a 15deg angle.  Managed to get thru that and attempted the tap. It turned out to be a stumbling block, I'm sure this cuts thru softwood like pine or fir like butter. But, Maple ... ah no. After an hour or so of struggle, I walked away for a bit. It was catching the wood pretty hard and I was afraid I was gonna break the tap if I twisted any harder. Not to mention my muscles were screaming. The instructions said to oil the wood, and I did, but apparently olive oil wasnt working.

So after some research and investigation of other attachment methods I returned to it a week later. This time with the die on an oak dowel. Oak might be the plan going forward. It tends to chip the threads out a little at a time and the 4 legs went pretty quickly. I used Linseed oil this time.  With this new found confidence, back to the maple seat. I liberally oiled with linseed along with the tap itself and started a new hole. This time it went a bit easier and faster. Likely the first hole I drilled was not true. My table top drill press does not have a deep enough throat, so it took two attempts to get thru the seat and it was binding. Make no mistake it still took some muscle and frequent oiling to get threads down the second hole but was much faster this time.

This is was the test prototype and shows it underneath. But I have a plan to clean it up, level the legs and maybe tap the legs a little deeper so they come closer to the seat surface. The pilot holes in the seat are going to be cutouts to lighten it. But I wanted to get an idea of how it looked in stain.

The first pic is a 17th century example from the Mary Rose, the next are my attempt...

[madPete]

Here's a few other historic examples...

[Duchess]

15 hours ago, madPete said:

William and I talked about some portable tavern stools for events. The desire was to  make them historic as possible and portable i.e. legs can be removed for shipping/transport. We also wanted them sturdy, cheap, and portable.

HAHA... Pick any two.

Being "portable" was the biggest challenge.  Thinking we could use threaded legs, to make a portable stool and still be historic looking, I proceeded to search for a tap and die tool for wood. I found one and ordered the appropriate size.  Once it came in I was a bit hesitant. The tap looked beefy enough but the die is a two handed deal made of plastic/nylon with a steel cutting bit.

I went to the local hardwood store "Timber Woodworking" and found some 1-1/4 oak dowels. They were out of most sizes/wood variations at the time, but I'll revisit again later. I also found a chunk of maple to make seats with. If you haven't priced wood lately (especially hardwood), you might be a bit surprised. Hardwood dowels are not cheap nor is maple stock in 7" X 1-3/4"  chunks. Only about $9 a foot!

Anyway, got home and proceeded to mark up and drill the prescribed hole in the seat at a 15deg angle.  Managed to get thru that and attempted the tap. It turned out to be a stumbling block, I'm sure this cuts thru softwood like pine or fir like butter. But, Maple ... ah no. After an hour or so of struggle, I walked away for a bit. It was catching the wood pretty hard and I was afraid I was gonna break the tap if I twisted any harder. Not to mention my muscles were screaming. The instructions said to oil the wood, and I did, but apparently olive oil wasnt working.

So after some research and investigation of other attachment methods I returned to it a week later. This time with the die on an oak dowel. Oak might be the plan going forward. It tends to chip the threads out a little at a time and the 4 legs went pretty quickly. I used Linseed oil this time.  With this new found confidence, back to the maple seat. I liberally oiled with linseed along with the tap itself and started a new hole. This time it went a bit easier and faster. Likely the first hole I drilled was not true. My table top drill press does not have a deep enough throat, so it took two attempts to get thru the seat and it was binding. Make no mistake it still took some muscle and frequent oiling to get threads down the second hole but was much faster this time.

This is was the test prototype and shows it underneath. But I have a plan to clean it up, level the legs and maybe tap the legs a little deeper so they come closer to the seat surface. The pilot holes in the seat are going to be cutouts to lighten it. But I wanted to get an idea of how it looked in stain.

The first pic is a 17th century example from the Mary Rose, the next are my attempt...

I love this!

[michaelsbagley]

Awesome job man. Loving the simplicity of usefullness of this project.

Not nit-picking, but asking because there are other details I am in love with....

But the first of the two Dutch paintings you posted, do you have an artist's name or specific date attached to that one?

[madPete]

usually I include the artist in the filename name, but I must have pulled this one from... AAAGHHH pinterest. I'll see if I can find the original

 

[madPete]

"David the Younger Teniers" according to the WIkIgallery. but I cant find the original anywhere

 

https://www.wikigallery.org/wiki/painting_389905/(after)-David-The-Younger-Teniers/A-Tavern-Interior-With-Peasants-Drinking%2C-Smoking-And-Gambling

[Mary Diamond]

Wonderful work, madPete!
 

I might also recommend Ingenious Mechanicks: Early Workbenches & Workholding, by Christopher Schwarz (https://lostartpress.com/collections/books/products/ingenious-mechanicks). I used it to create my oak carving bench, and found it very helpful. Lost Art Press is a treasure for woodworkers, in case you haven’t already come across them - I have a small collection of their books, and a few tools (Crucible) as well. The photo below is before I cut off the rear tenons of my Saalburg Workbench.

[madPete]

Very nice! You are going to bring that to Massacre island right??? LOL

My challenge is a sturdy stool that the legs can be removed for transport, and without appearing to be modern.

This will fit in my tent duffle if I'm not too close to the weight limit. Or I can ship it in a medium USPS box.

[Mary Diamond]

The legs on my carving bench can be knocked out, as they haven’t had the wedges inserted into the tenons. I would love to see the underside and leg shoulders on your stool, to see the assembly.

[madPete]

leg shoulders? haha. Its just straight oak dowels with the end threaded. The holes are drilled 15degs in the seat tho.

I'll take more pics later, I'm cursing that thing right now. My hands are still sore from threading those holes in the seat.

[Mission]

I would have made this style with the legs like an upside down U with two small (say 1" or so) dowels in the top of the U to fit into the bottom of the seat. Then you could cut the dowels level with the top of the seat once they were in place. You could router the 15 degree groove in the bottom of the seat because no one would see it.

On 4/2/2023 at 5:26 PM, madPete said:

 

 

 

[Stynky Tudor]

16 minutes ago, Mission said:

I would have made this style with the legs like an upside down U with two small (say 1" or so) dowels in the top of the U to fit into the bottom of the seat.

Do you have a visual example or scribble that illustrates what you're talking about here? Maybe it's just early in the morning, but I can't figure out what you mean.

[Mission]

Like this. (It is  not as complex as it looks in this drawing for someone who is used to working with wood. Plus, being rustic, it doesn't have to be exact.) The nice thing about this is the dowels keep the legs in place and groove in the bottom of the seat keeps the dowels from poking too far through.

[Stynky Tudor]

Nice, got it. Thank you.

[madPete]

In the interest of simplicity, I went with threaded hardwood dowels. Had I started with soft wood, I might be farther along but I was worried about durability. I may still explore that route.

To be fair, I did consider legs like you are describing but with a crossbrace at the bottom with pegs to hold legs in place. But now you have complex angles and joints that all need to be cut, and fit properly along with a specially shaped inlet in the seat probably requiring a router setup.  I'm not convinced a dowel will keep the legs in place without being extremely tight and thus difficult to disassemble.  Then as things begin to wiggle as they inevitably do with use, how do you tighten it up again without just punting and glueing it all together.

The threads are tapered in the seat since I didnt thread them all the way thru. If they start to wear, you just turn the legs in farther.

So in the end a simple tavern stool remains simple.

[madPete]

I meant to reply to Mary Diamond, but it was in regard to the stools not the tent poles, so here goes...

Purchased these items belowon amazon after the first attempt thinking, life has to be easier than what I just went thru threading that seat.   I hadnt tried them out yet, but did grind down the backside and spot welded 3/8 buts on the back size for a larger screwpost.

 

I may get to them this weekend. Look for a followup...

[madPete]

OK, here is one I knocked out today. Maple seat, poplar or pine legs...

 

I may wrap the legs with twine and glue where the bolt hanger is to help prevent splitting the leg. Durability is unknown at this point.

I will spray the shiny hangers with black spray bomb before I stain/paint this one up.

 

[Mary Diamond]

Love it! The leg assembly is very like what I was thinking. I particularly like the rough hewn surface and wedge shape.

On the t-nut assemblies I have made before, I make the bolt receiving hole (in the base material), as deep as possible, to add additional rigidity to the assembly.

[Stynky Tudor]

On 4/8/2023 at 5:40 PM, madPete said:

Purchased these items below on amazon after the first attempt thinking, life has to be easier than what I just went thru...

Excellent work, that came out nicely. Great job!

And thanks for sharing your hardware source.

How did you route out the voids for the hardware? Wood chiseled away?

[madPete]

I bought a router bit for the gold scales box I made William, I had to dig to find it tho.

I figured you wont see the mounting from the side. If you are on the floor you might see it, but then you're probably dead drunk too!

 

The saw marks came with the stock I bought. The first stool was a different piece of wood I had laying around. so i did something different with that. Like I said the bottom is kind of boogered up on that one, oh well, learning experience...

[Mary Diamond]

1 hour ago, madPete said:

The saw marks came with the stock I bought. The first stool was a different piece of wood I had laying around. so i did something different with that. Like I said the bottom is kind of boogered up on that one

Once upon a time I read about a tailors bench that had been flipped upside down to provide a surface for buttonhole chisel work… perhaps I need to bring my buttonhole chisels? 😊

[William Brand]

It's great to see the techniques, trial attempts, variety and everything else acquainted with this project.  Loving the images!

[madPete]

oh, there's more adventure to come!

[madPete]

Next ...

[William Brand]

Relentless!  There will be so much seating.