RoyalJames Posted October 3, 2013 Posted October 3, 2013 As most crews elected their captains, I came to wonder if there is any example of a captain not being an educated naval officer. Could perhaps a strong leader among the crew master the role, even if he had no nautical knowledge?
William Brand Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 There are examples of Captains not being 'navigators' or of high position aboard ship ascending to the place of Captain, but with no nautical knowledge at all? That, I don't know.
Fox Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 I recently did an analysis of the career paths of 82 pirate captains active between 1690 and 1726. Of those 82: 38 had been officers in legitimate service (mostly merchant, some privateer) immediately before becoming pirate captains; 8 had been 'officers' on a pirate ship; 5 had been petty officers in legitimate service; 2 had been pirate petty officers; 29 unknown. 19 had captaincy conferred on them by their crew (including by popular election; 6 had captaincy awarded to them by a more senior pirate officer, such as the 'commodore' of a pirate squadron; 18 progressed to command by dint of being the senior available officer at the time, without any evidence of popular election; 21 retained command that they had previously held, such as when a privateer captain led his company into piracy; 18 unknown. 8 were killed in action; 27 were captured by the authorities; 19 retired; 6 were deposed by popular vote; 4 were deposed by violence; 7 died a natural death while still captain; 11 unknown. FWIW, the captains were: George Cusack, Nicholas Clough, Joseph Bannister, Henry Every, Thomas Wake, Richard Want, Joseph Farrell, William Maze, Thomas Tew, Robert Culliford, Richard Shivers, William Kidd, John Halsey, Richard Glover, Jacob Mason, George/Josiah Raynor, Edward Coats, Captain Bobbington, John Hore, John Kelley, George Booth, John Bowen, Thomas Howard, Nathaniel North, Thomas White, Thomas Mostyn, Joseph Bradish, Captain Burk, John Quelch, Thomas Pound, Thomas Shafto, James Allison, Blackbeard, Charles Vane, John Rackham, Walter Kennedy, Howell Davis, Bartholomew Roberts, Thomas Anstis, John Fenn, Stede Bonnet, Henry Jennings, Leigh Ashworth, Francis Fernandez, Captain Leslie, Thomas Nichols, Porter, James Fife, Benjamin Hornigold, Samuel Bellamy, Paul Williams, Thomas Cocklyn, William Moody, Edward England, John Taylor, Jasper Seagar, Robert Sample, Captain Lane, Edmund Condent, James Skyrm, John Phillips, John Cockram, John Martel, Captain (not Walter) Kennedy, Ignatius Pell , Richard Worley, Burgess, John Augur, George Lowther, Ned Low, Charles Harris, Shipton, Frank Spriggs, Phillip Lyne, Joseph Cooper, William Fly, John Gow , Philip Roche , John Evans, Edward Williams, John Vidal, and Alexander Wyat. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Mission Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 19 of 82 captains retired. That is not what I would have guessed. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
William Brand Posted October 8, 2013 Posted October 8, 2013 Just because...the most common first names among the 82 (if listed). John comes in first at 15, followed by Thomas at 10 and Edward, George, Joseph, Richard and William tying for Third.Alexander WyatBartholomew RobertsBenjamin HornigoldCharles VaneCharles HarrisEdmund CondentEdward CoatsEdward EnglandEdward WilliamsEdward TeachFrancis FernandezFrank SpriggsGeorge CusackGeorge BoothGeorge/Josiah RaynorGeorge LowtherHenry EveryHenry JenningsHowell DavisIgnatius PellJacob MasonJames SkyrmJames AllisonJames FifeJasper SeagarJohn HalseyJohn HoreJohn KelleyJohn BowenJohn QuelchJohn PhillipsJohn CockramJohn MartelJohn VidalJohn AugurJohn GowJohn EvansJohn FennJohn TaylorJohn RackhamJoseph BannisterJoseph FarrellJoseph BradishJoseph CooperLeigh AshworthNathaniel NorthNed LowNicholas CloughPaul WilliamsPhillip LynePhilip RocheRichard WantRichard GloverRichard ShiversRichard WorleyRobert CullifordRobert SampleSamuel BellamyStede BonnetThomas WakeThomas TewThomas HowardThomas WhiteThomas MostynThomas PoundThomas ShaftoThomas NicholsThomas AnstisThomas CocklynWalter KennedyWilliam KiddWilliam MazeWilliam MoodyWilliam Fly
RoyalJames Posted October 9, 2013 Author Posted October 9, 2013 Thank you Foxe! These are very interesting figures. I think this shows that pirate captains most probably had some nautical education. Is there any on-line register of graduated officers from that time?
Fox Posted October 10, 2013 Posted October 10, 2013 Not as far as I know, and if there was it would be unlikely to be complete because there were different ways of becoming an officer. There is a Navy Records Society volume listing all commissioned officers in the Royal Navy within certain dates, which covers the GAoP, but it's only captains and lieutenants. Merchant officer tended to go through apprenticeships, either with one of the big companies like the East India Company, or with an individual officer, so the records of merchant officers have long since been scattered to the winds. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Silver Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 in the mid 1800"s england started keeping track of it marniers in case of war. many marnier signed on under the name john smith. 19 pirates retired, "retired pirate" i like the sound of that.
RoyalJames Posted November 14, 2013 Author Posted November 14, 2013 Snelgrave writes: ”This proclamation I had on board, with a declaration of war against Spain. The quarter-master finding them amongst my papers, and not being able to read, he brought them to me..” I am a little surprised to find a quarter-master not being able to read. I thought the quarter-master would be the one keeping records of the goods onboard, etc. This person is not named, but I believe he belonged to Cocklyn’s crew. In accordance to the originally question, this person would probably not be able to navigate a ship, and thus not a candidate for captain. At least in this crew the list of possible candidates must have been quite thin, which would somewhat question the “democratic elections” of captains. It would be interesting to hear any thoughts about this!
Fox Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 An illiterate quarter-master is slightly surprising, for the reasons you give, but the role of QM varied from company to company so it may be that in Cocklyn's company somebody else kept the accounts. And although a captain who was unable to navigate would be of limited effectiveness it was not necessarily an essential requirement, as long as one of the other officer could. Most pirate ships were run along rather military lines, and the role of captain was usually more of a military appointment among pirates. Many pirate companies are known to have also appointed sailing masters who were predominantly responsible for the navigation. After the surgeon, the master was probably the person most likely to have been forced, which may suggest a lower-than-average number of navigators on board the typical pirate ship. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Brit.Privateer Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 That counting of common first names in a previous post reminds me, John being the most common first name is a pattern not unique to pirates - it was the most prevalent of sailors too in this period. This is just off the top of my head right now, but I remember when working on the 1691 English sailor's register that had some 5,000 sailors on it, the numbers came out almost exactly to 1 out of every 5 sailors had the first name John. With that many with the same name - I'm wondering if it's an anomaly, something cultural, something in the way surveying was done (I suspect John might have been a common name filler for unknown first names and/or the go to name for people who couldn't exactly remember the first name of someone), or something I haven't taken into account yet.
Coastie04 Posted November 15, 2013 Posted November 15, 2013 Could John have also just been a slang name for any British sailor, in the same way that Joe was synonymous with U.S. soldier, Tommy was a British soldier, and Fritz or Jerry were German soldiers? I seem to remember (a long time ago, so this is very rusty trivia) that John was used to describe American sailors and Jack or Jack Tar was used for limejuicers. Of course, I believe that this was closer to the packet days of the mid 1800's-1900's. I wouldn't be too surprised, either, if John was taken on as a name when going to sea or turning to piracy, if it were a common one, much like 'John Doe' in order to maintain some anonymity in the event of trying to evade authorities. Of course, this is mostly just speculation on my part. She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail
RoyalJames Posted November 16, 2013 Author Posted November 16, 2013 Thanks, that gives me a better understanding of the roles on the ships! Regarding the “Johns”, I recently noticed that there was another John Taylor around West Africa in the 1720’s. At the “tryal of pirates” in Cabo Corso 1722 a John Taylor is present as a witness, who I doubt is the pirate captain with the same name.
Coastie04 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 I had another revelation about the frequency of 'John' on these muster roles. 1 in 5 does is a rather high proportion, but maybe not quite so high as it might seem. I was once serving on a CG cutter with a compliment of about 50. We had 4 Michaels (or some derivation) and one Michelle. That's a 1 in 10 ratio (if you count Michelle), and considering 25-35% of the crew was female and we had more than just English descendants on board, I wouldn't be too surprised at that 1 in 5 ratio. If it was the most common name overall, then it makes sense that the commonality transferred over to sailors as well. I'm not too well versed in names of that era, but I would assume (dangerous, I know) that they probably had a bit smaller pool of names, probably largely biblical-based ones, and thus a higher ratio of the most common name is not out of the question. She was bigger and faster when under full sail With a gale on the beam and the seas o'er the rail
sea haugh Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 An assumption ; perhaps not illiterate , rather unable to read a different language?
Fox Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 I haven't counted them all, but I'm not surprised by the number of Johns in this list or the Seamen's Registry - in general there were a lot of Johns around, it was a very common name. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
Cod Rotten Bandlesworth Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Is there a list somewhere of every captain during 1690-1730??
William Brand Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 There are lists, some more comprehensive than others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pirates
Fox Posted January 18, 2014 Posted January 18, 2014 That counting of common first names in a previous post reminds me, John being the most common first name is a pattern not unique to pirates - it was the most prevalent of sailors too in this period. This is just off the top of my head right now, but I remember when working on the 1691 English sailor's register that had some 5,000 sailors on it, the numbers came out almost exactly to 1 out of every 5 sailors had the first name John. With that many with the same name - I'm wondering if it's an anomaly, something cultural, something in the way surveying was done (I suspect John might have been a common name filler for unknown first names and/or the go to name for people who couldn't exactly remember the first name of someone), or something I haven't taken into account yet. I'm just reading the incomparable Voices of Morebath by Eamon Duffy, not piracy but an extremely good analysis of an English rural village in the 16th century, and I came across this: "This brutally high level of mortality among their children may explain the custom, maddening to the historian trying to pick his way through meagre documentation, of naming several children of the same generation of the same family with the same name.In 1534 the branch of the Timewell family farming at Wood in Morebath had three unmarried sons, all called John, identified by the priest in a note of that year as John maior, John minor, and John minimus." Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk
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