HMS Bounty Sinks Off North Carolina Coast

[Dutchman]

The hearings can be viewed live at WWW.wavy.com. they also have the first days tribunals available.

[DSiemens]

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/portsmouth/rotted-frame-in-sunken-ship-not-fixed

Here's a recent article that sheds a little more light. According to a Maine shipyard official the hull was rotted before they left. If the planks failed then the ship would have taken on more water then the pumps could handle and cause them to fail. They are made to handle any water that comes in over the deck but not a hole in the ship. I have a friend who has sailed all over the Atlantic for years. She mentioned that the Bounty sank beyond the danger zone of the hurricane. Had she been in good working order she would have made it to her destination. If it's true the hull was rotted it makes a little sense to what happened.

[Coastie04]

The rotten frame bit has me a little confused. I've heard different reports, some saying "the frame" was rotten (unlikely that the whole thing was) and some that say "a frame" was rotten, in which case it might not be as bad as people imagine. Even the experts had different opinions about the severity of the rot. If a single frame was rotten, but the ones on either side of it were fine, then it really isn't too critical. There was at least one seam above the waterline on the port side that was leaking substantially in the engine room, but obviously there were other leaks that sprang as well. I just listened to the majority of the 3rd mate's and bo's'un's testimonies and I seem to recall that where they could identify leaking was not in the vicinity of where the planks were replaced (and where they noticed at least one rotten frame). Additionally, when the ship went down, these two both noted that they had been in conditions about that bad on Bounty before (20-25' seas, 30-50 kts wind with the occasional higher gust). As they were going downwind in all this, until they hove to, this isn't too bad. Not a Sunday cruise, but not quite survival conditions (barring the flooding, of course). It's not completely unheard of when fixing a wooden boat to find hidden defects, such as a bit of rot in a frame, and not fix it right away (if it isn't in the budget for that particular haul out) if it's not deemed necessary. That way the materials (not easy to find for a boat that size) can be procured without a lot of delay and extra cost in the ship's schedule. That sounds like the route they took, planning to fix it in the next year's haul out. Only time (maybe) will tell if it played a pivotal role in this sinking, or possibly also the compounds used to caulk the hull (an issue that was brought up by the bo's'u'n's testimony), or something else entirely. We'll have to wait for the investigation results to come out and hope they can definitively tell us what happened.

On the other hand, listening to the stories of the crew about the struggle and eventual final moments of Bounty is quite informative. For many mariners, it will force home some lessons that are taught in survival classes, but can be easily forgotten. Some examples include how hard it is to grab anything in a survival suit, even things that are tied on to you can go missing, and if a life raft is inflated, you won't catch up to it in high winds.

Coastie

[Commodore Swab]

I heard the ship would "flex" in 10 foot seas and the majority of the leaking came from the decking and not the hull.

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Interesting that the project manager Kosakowski felt the rot was very bad, and yet the yard manager, Joe Jakomovicz disagrees, and feels Kosakowski didn't have enough experience to realize it wasn't life threatening. Jakomovicz makes the case that the Bounty maintained hull integrity even as she was going down, and had her frame been so rotten it would have collapsed during the storm. Jakomovicz makes the case that he had 40 years experience versus 5-6 for Kosakowski.

But Jakomovicz was retired as far as I know- so did he see the rot that Kosakowski saw? I don't know. At any rate if it "terrified" Walbridge as much as Kosakowski testified too..then it beggars the imagination that Walbridge should take her to sea into a storm. Even had he been able to skirt the hurricane as intended, the seas would still be rough...

[Commodore Swab]

My information is from the crew, and I believe what they had to say. The pictures of the Bounty "sunk" while stille being on the surface would support what I said and not a hull failure.

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Yes, the pictures of her on the surface seem to corroborate what the yard manager said- with his experience of 40 years vs. the project managers' 5-6. Which is why I posted it. Sorry if it made it seem I didn't agree..

[DSiemens]

My information is from the crew, and I believe what they had to say. The pictures of the Bounty "sunk" while stille being on the surface would support what I said and not a hull failure.

If your information is from the crew I trust it. The pumps failing and that was the real downfall. Whether it was from to much water over taking them, poor maintenance on the pumps, or some gremlin pulled a spark plug they failed. From what I've heard the captain had a good coarse. Had the pumps not failed he would have made it. I think he knew what he was doing and things went wrong. At least that's where the evidence seems to be pointing. Guess there will always be questions.

[Commodore Swab]

There should be a distinction made between the pumps failing and generators/engines failing. Without power they couldn't run the pumps.

[Coastie04]

There should be a distinction made between the pumps failing and generators/engines failing. Without power they couldn't run the pumps.

I am somewhat surprised that they didn't have adequate battery operated pumps. Otherwise, yes it seems that the pumps failing to pump out as much water as was coming in was the determining factor. As for the rotten frames, they may not have horrified the Captain because of the extent of the rot, but because they were some of the newer frames and shouldn't be rotting yet. The horror may have been the realization that they would need to be replaced (an extensive and expensive project) at the next haul out. However, if all the rotten frames (still not sure how many-if it was only one, then it shouldn't have been such a big deal) were in one area, especially on either end of the ship, then it could have contributed to hull flexing and how much water was coming in. Unfortunately, this is one of those cases where there are many things that could have prevented the loss of the Bounty: not heading to sea in known storm conditions with an older boat (even though she had survived them many times before), having adequate working pumps, having backup pumps that are able to keep up with however much water tends to come in during rough weather in case the primary pumps fail completely (extra trash pumps, for example), and heading in to a port of refuge when things started going bad, making the call to abandon ship just a few minutes earlier (unfortunately, just a judgement call here). It will be interesting to see how the Coast Guard tries to codify these things in to law/policy and how it will affect other vessels.

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Just an interesting article I found with more interview of the yard manager at Boothbay.

http://www.coastaljournal.com/website/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4026:maines-maritime-heritage-key-to-hms-bounty-hearings&catid=58:regional-news&Itemid=100070

[Coastie04]

I would love to get a copy of his testimony. I heard most of the 3rd mate and bo's'un's testimony, but wasn't able to tune in on the rest. I'm sure that there will be a TV special before too long that incorporates at least a bit of the testimonies. However, I would still have loved to listen to this one unfolding.

[Miles Percy]

Aye, tis a shame to lose such a pretty boat, er.... ship!

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Another in depth article about Bounty, this time from CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/03/us/bounty/?hpt=hp_c1

[Gunpowder Gertie]

and yet one more- the first of the books...or in this case, an e-book.

http://www.sail-world.com/Canada/Book-feature:-The-Sinking-of-the-Bounty/107961

[flagman1776]

http://s122.photobucket.com/user/fleeting_cat/media/BountyIIProvidenceII.jpg.html?sort=3&o=52

http://s122.photobucket.com/user/fleeting_cat/media/ships050172.jpg.html?sort=3&o=53

In Memorium:

My photos of Bounty & Sloop Providence in the Port of Providence, post POC filming

[DSiemens]

Wonderful photos. Speaking of memorium the ship in bottle community did a community build in memory of the Bounty. There's build logs for each one here. http://www.folkartinbottles.com/workshop/building-the-hms-bounty

[flagman1776]

couldn't load these earlier

Edited September 7, 2013 by flagman1776

[Jake the SeaSnake]

almost makes me want drain the sea water from my eyes

[Silver]

the local paper here in hampton roads "the virginia pilot" is starting a six part series next sunday oct. 20th about the sinking of the bounty it will be titled "taken under".

[Silver]

today is the 3rd. of the six parts you can read them at "pilotonline.com"

[flagman1776]

I read the articles & watched the videos... It an interesting collection of first person accounts... yet really failed to add anything to what was already known, at least by those who followed the story & the CG hearings. It is a crying shame & I do weep at the errors which caused such a tragedy.

Edited October 27, 2013 by flagman1776

[Red John]

Article about just-released NTSB Report on the Sinking of the Bounty

Ahoay all- looks like the NTSB report has finally come out; the USCG report is still pending I hear. Saw this article from a few hours ago about the NTSB report. Not saying I agree with all of it, I just wanted to post this so folks could see what the media says the report says and know the report is out there. I'd like to get the actual report for one thing, and then once the USCG report comes out, see how the report differs when an actual maritime entity does the investigation. But for now, anyway, here's the article:

"Captain's 'reckless' decision led to Bounty sinking," NTSB says

By CNN Staff, updated 2:29 PM EST, Mon February 10, 2014

(CNN) -- What led to the deadly sinking of the HMS Bounty during Hurricane Sandy? Federal investigators point to the captain.

Capt. Robin Walbridge's "reckless decision to sail ... into the well-forecasted path of Hurricane Sandy" was the probable cause of the tall ship's October 2012 sinking off the coast of North Carolina, the National Transportation Safety Board said in a report released Monday.

The ship, carrying 16 crew members, flipped sideways in heavy seas and high winds, spilling everyone into the Atlantic. Walbridge, 63, was never found and is presumed dead; deckhand Claudene Christian, 42, died.

Before the ship left port in New London, Connecticut, the captain indicated he knew the hurricane was moving up the eastern seaboard, according to crew testimony at Coast Guard hearings in 2013. A report from that investigation has yet to be released.

Heading into the storm's path "subjected the aging vessel and the inexperienced crew to conditions from which the vessel could not recover," Monday's NTSB report said.

"The Bounty's crew was put into an extraordinarily hazardous situation through decisions that by any measure didn't prioritize safety," NTSB Chairman Deborah Hersman said in a statement.

The Bounty was arguably the most famous traditionally rigged wooden 18th-century replica ship in the world. It appeared in several Hollywood films, including the "Pirates of the Caribbean" franchise.

[Jake the SeaSnake]

i woulda added this-

"On Monday, Bounty survivor Jessica Hewitt told CNN on the phone that some of the report's nuances rubbed her the wrong way.

She said the report mistakenly paints the captain as disregarding the crew's well being. "Robin thought a lot about safety," said Hewitt, who almost drowned during the first few minutes after the ship flipped on its side. "But I agree that he also during his career had been walking this line of going out in big storms and making it." They made it through the storms, despite Bounty's less-than-perfect condition, Hewitt said, because Walbridge "was good -- and the crew was good. That boat lasted so long because he was so good."

When Bounty crew member Joshua Scornavacchi spoke with CNN Tuesday about the NTSB report, he questioned the command decisions made during the ship's the final hours.

Scornavacchi said that as soon as Walbridge "figured out that the pumps weren't working right -- and that we wouldn't be able to get them started again -- we probably should have abandoned ship." That was about four or five hours before the ship turned on its side, he said."

[Red John]

Hah! I would have added it too if it was part of the article I posted! Thanks for the extra info. Looking forward to the USCG report whenever that one gets done.

Thanks again-

Aye,

John