Photo of a Tall Ship Cock Pit?

[Mission]

Does anyone have a photo from a tall ship of the cockpit they'd be willing to share? Or does anyone know of a tall ship where I could get an image of the cockpit?

[peglegstrick]

Mission will this help?

https://pyracy.com/index.php?/gallery/image/6731-ship-3/

https://pyracy.com/pub_gallery/gallery/album_414/gallery_11477_414_110381.gif

https://pyracy.com/pub_gallery/gallery/album_414/gallery_11477_414_350945.jpg

[Mission]

A little. The cartoony image is the most interesting one for my purposes, but it's copyrighted so I can't use it. The third image is neat, but that's too big a ship for a pirate. (Although I can use that for another thing. I seem to be gradually acquiring a huge store of images...)

Thanks!

[Coastie04]

I have a couple images that I took and would love to share, but haven't been able to get them on the pub gallery yet.

Arrrgh!

[Mission]

I have a couple images that I took and would love to share, but haven't been able to get them on the pub gallery yet.

Arrrgh!

Anything I can do to help? I'm pretty good at explaining how to do stuff like that.

[Coastie04]

Anything I can do to help? I'm pretty good at explaining how to do stuff like that.

Explain away! I thought I had it this last time, with about a dozen images uploaded. Then I went to the 'review album' page and wrote short descriptions, tags, etc. of each of them, and when I hit 'Finish & Publish,' there were no images in my album.

Grrrr.....

Arrrgh!

[Mission]

Whoa. If you were editing and tagging them, they should have been in there. That sort of sounds like a server glitch. When was this? Stynky had been fooling around with gallery a few months ago and they may have been part of the problem.

For the nonce, feel free to email them to me and I will try to get them posted for you. (They may also wind up on the Surgeon's Journal website if they show what I'm looking for. With photo credits, of course.) I will send you a pm with my email address in it.

[Coastie04]

Thank you. I ended up getting it to work while trying again. Not sure what I did differently. Must be the quarks of the internet. Ink and quill has some less mysterious advantages at times! Search for the album 'coastie04' and you can see all the photos I've uploaded so far of the replica 1606 Dutch vessel Duyfken. I'll post a couple here if I can manage it.

Arrrgh!

[Mission]

Oh, those are beautiful! What ship is that? You don't mind if I use them in my article on the surgeon's quarters on my website, do you? I will give you photo credit. (Although I only know you as Coastie04 right now. )

[Coastie04]

That's the replica of the Duyfken, the first European vessel to explore part of the west coast of Australia in 1606. You are free to use the photos and I'll PM you with my name.

Arrrgh!

[Captain Jim]

Is that deck covered in bricks? Talk about fire retardant.

[Coastie04]

Those bricks are the ballast. Since she's not sailing with cargo, nor enough stores for a prolonged voyage of discovery, bricks it is.

Arrrgh!

[Mission]

Not having been that interested in the details of ships, I thought the surgeon would always be on the orlop deck (one above the hold) because that's what everyone says. But a lot of ships, particularly ships used by pirates, didn't have an orlop deck per se. The point of the surgeon's place during battle (as I understand it) was to have the surgeon at or below the waterline for 'safety' and above the bilge if possible. On a small ship, like a sloop, this would be the hold. (I wish I understood the design of ships better, but it just doesn't hold my interest like the surgeries and surgical tools do.)

[Coastie04]

From a practical perspective, I'd say in a smaller vessel that they might have multiple places to work. In battle or during a storm, below deck would seem very likely. Amidships would have the least vessel movement for surgeries. A lot might depend on where they could put a few chests together as a makeshift operating table based on the cargo load. However, as I'm sure you're aware, much of the surgeon's skill would be applied when not in battle with either enemies or elements. Even in calm weather, people would get injuries, diseases (especially after port calls), have fights with each other, slips trips & falls, etc. On a small ship, it seems that the best surgery might be on deck or in the captain's cabin (with at least more light), if he was agreeable to such an intrusion. The last Coast Guard cutter I was assigned to (a 225' buoy tender) had a sick bay, but that was used for a case of severe injury that might require surgery. The wardroom (officer's mess) across the passageway would be used. It had a large table and above the ceiling tiles, additional lighting for an operation. This was a military(ish) vessel commissioned in 2001. Just food for thought.

Arrrgh!

[Coastie04]

I might suggest also contacting the operators of the Gotheborg III. They've excavated an east indiaman (OK, a little late in period, but still probably a good example for what you're looking for) and they might be able to tell you where they found medical supplies. From their website, http://www.gotheborg.com/project/:

It had been a journey full of hardships. When the Gotheborg departed, it carried a crew of 141, in addition 3 boys had stowed away and were discovered far out at sea. When the Gotheborg was cleared in Batavia 10th January 1744, it was noted that 130 men were onboard which accords well with the number of deaths that had occurred up to then (according to the roll of Holmertz). One of the Gotheborg's own seamen, jumped shipped at Batavia while 7 deserters of various nationalities were found onboard as stowaways when she left Batavia on 28 May 1744. After that date, another 17 names were added to the list, evidently recruited or boarding the ship on later occasions.

Of the 104 people who were onboard from the outset and who are included in the preserved portion of Holmertz roll, 21 died during the voyage. In addition, 2 of the 25 men added later were noted as deceased and 3 more were struck from the list, possibly deserting. Since some of the 40 men probably missing from Holmertz roll may well have died too, the number of death can be put at about 20% of all participating in the expedition. This high figure shows to tell about many hardships on this journey. In the shipwreck however, it seems that none lost their life.

With a crew of somewhere between 101-141 (depending on the source-more likely in the 141 range), there is probably a clear need for a sick bay. With so many people, especially at the onset of a voyage, there's bound to be some sickness with so many people from possibly different towns in close proximity. Obviously, with regards to the roll, there were deaths that occurred. With over a hundred people on a long voyage, they probably would have had to make some area to quarantine the sick and injured.

Arrrgh!

[Mission]

II think you're right about moving the surgeon's operating theater around the ship. The surgeon's place on the ship would almost by necessity have to be fluid based on what was happening around him. Still, there has to be a location where the medicine chests and tools were stored.

Your point about establishing a sick bay on a ship with lots of men is well-taken. Having almost no data on the surgeon aboard a GAoP pirate ship, I can't say whether they would have such a thing on long voyages or just leave the ill man in his regular quarters. From my understanding (which may be wrong), pirates had a lot more leeway about making landfall, so they may have left sick men behind rather than take them out when they weren't making long voyages.

(This is really good stuff. You've just helped me gel several things I've read. This month's article could almost be useful as genuine research on my part. Thanks! :) )

[Coastie04]

Here's a question for you. Would the surgical instruments belong to the ship or the surgeon? If they were personal tools, then they'd probably be stored wherever he stored his other personal effects. Many specialists (at least in today's sailing world) have their own special tools that they take with them. Of course, resupplies of medicine and other consumables might come out of the general fund, but didn't navigators usually have their own charts, backstaffs, etc.? I know lots of carpenters have their own tool chest as well. Of course, this might also depend on how good of a surgeon they actually had.

Arrrgh!

[Mission]

They would technically belong to the surgeon, although he was given money before a naval voyage specifically to buy the proper tools and medicines. Of course, he had to have his stuff inspected before it was loaded on the ship. I seem to recall reading about a surgeon complaining about this and deciding not to allow the Royal College of Surgeons examine his instruments because they were all custom made at his specification and he knew they were good enough for any ship.