How can you call yourself a real Pirate re-enactor?

[TheBlackFox]

Help out with one of the most serious topics we've ever covered in The Pyrates Way magazine. (reposted everywhere to get the most responses.

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t's time to get all yer piratical input for an article I'm working on for the January issue of ThePyrates Way. The idea comes from an email we received a month ago about the validity of pirate re-enactors.

QUESTION ONE: Why aren't you realistic Pirates?

To be a real pirate you need to answer YES to at least two of these three questions:

1) Have you ever raped a woman?

2) Have you ever boarded a craft at sea and taken all of their goods?

3) Have you ever killed a man?

Can you say you're historically correct if you've not done any of those, especially if you're of higher rank in your crew?

We all know that Hollywood has tempered the actions of pirates but by all historical accounts the bastards were mean, villainous and downright evil! We also know what forced a man to piracy but that doesn't give the OK to rape, pillage and plunder. . . . so are you a true re-enactor?

. . .or are you more afraid of a long prison sentence? I mean we all make sacrifices for our art. . . why aren't you folks doing your job?

QUESTION TWO: Why would you want to emulate such a bad group of people?

We don't see Nazi, Slaveowner, Conquestador, Inquisitor, or Cannibal re-enactors. Why do bloodthirsty, drunken pirates get a pass?

QUESTION THREE: Where should the line be drawn in re-enacting when it comes to being morally acceptable to demonstrate?

Is it just the action/adventure of being a pirate that makes it OK to emulate? Does the instruction of period maritime arts really matter in today's world? At what point (inside the law) do you stop being your pirate re-enactor and be a concerned human being?

All of the answers will go into the article of which I'll edit to make flow a bit better than choppy questions and answers. Everyone who responds will get a byline credit in the article. Please share and cross-post everywhere pirates meet and have the answers either added to this thread or emailed to me at: publisher@pyratesway.com

Thanx so much mates!

4

[Hawkyns]

Just answered this over on the Facebook side.

[Mission]

To be a real pirate you need to answer YES to at least two of these three questions:

1) Have you ever raped a woman?

2) Have you ever boarded a craft at sea and taken all of their goods?

3) Have you ever killed a man?

Can you say you're historically correct if you've not done any of those, especially if you're of higher rank in your crew?

This is based on what, exactly? We do have accounts of pirates doing all those things, but I don't see how that makes it some sort of 2 our of 3 laundry list for accuracy. The only one that's absolutely true is number 2 because it's in the definition.

Oh, and I've seen several photos of Nazi reenactors.

[Brit.Privateer]

Question 1 has some issues. To be a pirate, you didn't have to rape women or even kill someone. There was no rule saying you had to do those two things or that it was even typical of a pirate. That's not to say some pirates didn't engage in those two, but not every women encountered by pirates was raped (unless you got a strange definition of rape) and there are plenty of ships they encountered in which they didn't kill anyone.

[William Brand]

This is one of the most serious topics Pyrates Way magazine has ever discussed? To what end?

Question one is ambiguous and based on a broad stroke standard for defining pyracy, which is the act of robbing another party of their goods at sea. The 2 of three mark would only apply to pirates on a case by case basis and the idea that a hobbyist would have to engage in rape, murder or theft to by a purist is exactly the kind of ridiculous argument I would expect from Pyrates Way.

Question two implies that all pirates were bad people, not individuals motivated by different modus operandi. And I've seen Nazi, Slaveowner, Conquestador, Inquisitor, and Cannibal re-enactors, so the argument is flawed on it's face. History both good and bad must be taught. Minds must be armed and enlightened.

Question three is simple. Don't rape, kill or steal. If you don't know where to draw the line, you have issues that need addressing that have nothing to do with hobbies.

[PoD]

as I said on facebook We do see Nazi, Slaveowner, Conquestador and Inquisitor reenactors. Most periods of history are reenacted and to reenact any event you need the so called 'bad' guys as well as the 'good' guys. You cant alter or leave out the facts just because its not politically correct in our time or else how would anyone learn anything from historys mistakes.

To generalise all pirates as rapists and murderers is historically incorrect too.

And to sum it all up, that whole argument makes no sense anyway as no reenactor has done what the person they portray has done. Medieval reenactors don't go around hacking people to bits, World War 2 reenactors don't go around shooting people or blowing people up. The clue is in the word ACT in reenACTment. It's acting. At the end of the day we all take off our pirate clothes and go back to our 21st century luxurys

[HBlackthorne]

Let us take this bit by bit and question by question.

Question One-

Who decides what makes a REAL pirate, other than the "dictionary definition" with each of the points on the "Laundry List" there is an exception to every rule. We all know not all Pirates were rapists. Some were [in their minds] good men who were "redistributing the wealth", others were slaves in their own right, and still others were sated by the willing women in the low dives they went to, so had no need to resort to Rape. Next comes the "Dictionary Definition" which you really cannot dispute. Last on the "Laundry List" is killing another person and frankly this one is the easiest to bypass as a re-enactor because most Gathers are war or fighting based [Civil War, WWII, Rev. War, etc] and "ability to kill" is assumed onto the character by the patrons. Caveat to this is while a Gather might be War based does not mean all of the re-enactors portray the soldiers, every War needs its civilians to support the troops. All of this "Laundry List " is based on the assumption that Pirates were " mean, villainous, and downright evil" but sadly that is not historically accurate. Too many people have a "Black or White" attitude when it comes to Pirates, they either believe the Disney-fied ideal or "vile, evil, rapist" ideal when in reality Pirates ran between both extremes. Most Pirates were somewhere int he middle, definitively not "upstanding law abiding citizens" but also not "Filthy McNasty the Mass Murdering Rapist". That being said most Pirate Re-enactors I meet do a pretty good job of portraying a Pirate while leaving the "downright illegal" things in the realm of innuendo and conversation as opposed to action.

Question Two

Having traveled the US doing Medieval and Pirate Faires I can honestly say that I have seen a squad of Nazi re-enactors at WWII Gatherings, seen a whole army of Confederate Soldiers [who would have been considered Slave Owners] at Civil War Gatherings, and a whole show focused on Conquistadors. Further, as I said above since Pirates were usually more in the middle of the extremes portraying a Pirate is not as morally wrong as some people would think. As re-enactors we portray the average pirate, the guy who for whatever reason has had to break the law to live, the guy who is being forced to break the law, the guy who is given permission by the Crown to break the law in other waters [Privateer], the guy who the local Law turns a blind eye to because he brings in goods and money to the area.

Question Three

There is no Moral line for all of us, just a legal one. Morals are a personal choice, if one person portrays a letch and a drunkard and feels morally that he can do this in public then by all means since he is not breaking any laws let him. If the next one portrays the "bristling with guns" pirate then let them. No matter what you do or say someone somewhere will be bothered by it, that is why you cannot place your morals on everyone. That being said a Show can choose who to hire or not hire based on their morals, but in doing so they are saying that the portrayal is contrary to what they want to represent not the portrayal makes that person less of a re-enactor.

[Captain Jim]

Well, you certainly know how to (potentially) stir up a hornets nest, but there are basic and profound flaws in your questions. The first is that to be a reenactor one does not need to have done the thing being reenacted. Acting. It’s what they do on stage and in the movies. One does not need to have live ammunition and kill the opposing side in order to reenact battles from the Civil War. None of those people “killed” in movies actually dies. You have confused real life with acting, “realistic” with “real” and your first question is misguided as a result.

Although I know of a couple of pyrate reenactors that can claim your “two out of three” test, this aspect of the question, too, is flawed. The only requisite to be a pyrate is to have robbed at sea or plundered the land from the sea without a commission from a sovereign nation. That is all. Your question assumes that all pyrates were rapists, murderers and, later, you insist drunken. One of the greatest pyrates of all time, Bartholomew Roberts was a teetotaler and devout Christian who kept the Sabbath. So, would not drinking or raping disqualify him as a pyrate? I think not.

Pyrates do not fit into any easy pigeonhole, largely because their stories were almost always told by others, often those with newspapers and broadsheets to sell. Sensationalism sells, and exaggeration has always sold more ink than understatement. We do not really know much about the lives of pyrates before they turned to a life of crime. How many were married, had kids, were fleeing debt and prison for the crime of being poor. How many were left, abandoned on distant shores by their governments at the end of national conflicts, to shift for themselves in a foreign land. How many, in a time when democracy and the rights of the individual were beginning to stir, chafed at the collar of virtual slavery on the merchant ships, of the naval ships of the time, ships where the captain’s word was the absolute law and severe punishments were meted out for seemingly minor infractions. One pyrate was a ten-year-old boy, John King, who voluntarily went aboard with Sam Bellamy from a raided ship upon which he and his parents were passengers. Why would such a young boy turn to piracy? We do not know exactly how many pyrates there were at any one time, nor do we know how many returned to lives as honest citizens either by accepting general amnesties or by quietly jumping ship and resuming the life they led before. During most conflicts, many of the participants keep diaries. Pyrates did not, in the main, because a diary would also be a confession. As such we don’t hear much from the individual pyrate and so we cannot conclude that pyrates were always (fill in your stereotype here.)

As for question Two, many do reenact the other side of the coin. There are Nazi reenactors, SS reenactors. Google it up. As a magazine editor/publisher, I am surprised at your lack of enterprise. As it is, we pyrates have sold people on the block at reenacting events. As such we have had slaves, owners, auctioneers and a buying public. As for Conquistadors, we celebrate Columbus Day and have a Desoto Celebration in the city where I grew up. Politically incorrect? Yes, probably, but it is history. It happened. Reenacting history, right or wrong, good or bad, opens up conversations about history, conversations that sometimes end up rewriting that very history.

Why do I reenact piracy? One, because it’s fun, burning off black powder, camping on the beach, swordfighting, cannon, sailing on ships when we can get ‘em. Two, because I don’t have to drill in no stinkin’ lines and the command structure is so much more relaxed. More individualism is allowed. And because it is a little-known aspect of history. A lot has been learned in the years since the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie reignited interest in pyrates. More energy and more research as led to a wider understanding of pyrate life, but so much more is left to learn.

As for the living history demonstrations of period maritime arts, sewing arts, surgical craft (hi Mission!), cooking and daily life are interesting, fun, educational and in danger of being lost. So preservation, conservation and appreciation of the past are a large part of what we do.

Now for question three. Where should the acceptability line be? That would depend on the audience, much like in that other acting venue, the movies. Of course, one must stay inside the law, so actual rape, real swordfights and shootings are kinda out. Real swordfighting is a messy, bloody, smelly affair replete with resected bowels, dismemberments, screaming. Hard to get volunteers for those anyway. So should we simulate the gore by pitching some bloody pig intestines out on the stage? Not for the general audience, no. A bit too graphic. However, one crew I know does a (simulated) pyrate hanging. But the set-up and dénouement are so well done that it remains accessible and appropriate for the general audience. So you put the line where you need it.

Reenacting should be about history, storytelling, learning, and teaching. Showing instead of telling. Doing instead of reading. Feeling it instead of just imagining.

[Captain Jim]

Having re-read all of that I realize I let pyrates off a litlle lightly. Yes, some were actual monsters. Roberts was one vindictive son of a bitch. Blackbeard, well we all know his stories all too well. There was evil aplenty, but also men dealt very bad hands just trying to get by in a ruthless world. Again, you can't just say, "Pyrates were all (fill in the blank.)"

Edited September 25, 2012 by Captain Jim

[William Brand]

Aye, but there are only a few proper ways to answer an email that asks 'Why don't you actually rape and murder as hobbyists?'.

[Captain Jim]

How about, "You're joking, right? You do know that this is not real life, right? Right?"

Remind me to keep an eye on that guy...

Edited September 25, 2012 by Captain Jim

[William Brand]

Or...

Imagine if you will how few Lincoln re-enactors we would have if they were shot at the end of each performance.

[Captain Jim]

One more thing. You intimate that the upcoming story is about "the validity of pirate re-enactors." In all actuality, we do not need you to validate us. We are our own strictest critics.

[William Brand]

QUESTION ONE: Why aren't you realistic Pirates?

Scurvy.

Who wants to experience the following?

tiredness

loss of appetite

irritability

inability to gain weight

muscle weakness or pseudoparalysis

joint and muscle aches and stiffness

rashes, particularly on your legs; generally looking like tiny red blisters and eventually large purple blotches

bleeding gums which turn blue-ish purple and feel spongy

bulging eye balls

corkscrew hair (only in non-infantile scurvy), particularly noticeable on your arms and legs

loosened teeth which will eventually fall out in the advanced stages of scurvy

fever

swollen legs, particularly swelling over the long bones of your body

diarrhea

vomiting

lethargy

scar tissue will break down and you’ll begin bleeding again from these formerly healed areas

slow wound healing

anemia

depression

unusual paleness

bleeding under the skin and from hair follicles

eventual death due to cardiac failure

Give me a tricorn and the basic food groups. I'm just a graphic designer.

[Mission]

As for the living history demonstrations of period maritime arts, sewing arts, surgical craft (hi Mission!), cooking and daily life are interesting, fun, educational and in danger of being lost. So preservation, conservation and appreciation of the past are a large part of what we do.

I actually wouldn't have been a pirate. It's part of the reason I chose the surgeon's role.

BTW, Black Fox, please do not use my name as a source in your magazine, although you can feel free to use anything I said if you find some value in it. (And I consider this mighty nice of me considering you once told me I couldn't use your material in my free-to-all on-line Journal because it was copyright of your magazine.)

[Captain Jim]

Mission does make a good point in that you should do your own research. By all means use what we say as a starting point, but if the question is whether pyrate reenacting or reenacting in general is a "valid" (to whom?) pastime or worthy of scholarly recognition is to evolve into some sort of editorial piece, then the byline should be yours. As I am not allowed to have a say in the final shape and tone of the story/piece, then I would also prefer not to be included in any byline. Besides, how does one give a byline to an unlimited number of various opinions, either supported or unsupported?

[Mission]

Jim I think he is doing his own research by posting the questions. He can do quite the sensationalist article that quotes opinions by everyone who answered the offensive questions. It was, "reposted everywhere to get the most responses" after all. Plus everyone who answered is likely to read the magazine which will boost his readership.

[Captain Jim]

Hmmmm...upon (reasonably) sober reflection I see I took the question, and possibly the questioner, a bit too seriously. It was a poorly crafted query that seems to have been lacking in basic journalistic preparation.

[Brit.Privateer]

Jim I think he is doing his own research by posting the questions. He can do quite the sensationalist article that quotes opinions by everyone who answered the offensive questions. It was, "reposted everywhere to get the most responses" after all. Plus everyone who answered is likely to read the magazine which will boost his readership.

in other words, Mission just did a

I thought there was a troll about after I read that post, that's why I didn't get passionate in my post and stuck to critiquing the first of the three questions (since I could use history on it).

[Mission]

No, he's not really a troll, he's been around this site for a long time, mostly peddling his publication.

[Brit.Privateer]

No, he's not really a troll, he's been around this site for a long time, mostly peddling his publication.

Oh, good. I was thinking "well, that's bold to try and troll people who own sharp weaponry, firearms, and artillery." If it was a troll, it would have been a clever one.

[Hawkyns]

Copied from my facebook post

1) Of course we don't want to go to prison. Unfortunately, the world is not what it was 400 years ago, There is nowhere to sail off and hide from the authorities anymore.

2)These were men and women who were truely in charge of their own destiny, somehting that the 21st century fears and has made impossible by the huge weight of law. Where you control all in your sphere of influence, the length of your sword and the range of your pistol, the world is a different place. And yes, there are German SS reenactors and Conquistadores.

3)That's a tough qquestion and one that has a lot of variables. As a historic reenactor, I prefer to show the reality of pirates and don' care for the Hollywood/Disney/Fantasy pirates out there. Frequently, I don't get recognised as a pirate because I don't have skull and bones everywhere, don't talk with a bad Devon accent, am not constantly swilling rum, and am more frequently found doing the actual jobs that a sailor, pirate, navy, or merchant, would do. The venue sets the groundrules and we have to be aware of that, especially when they are planning that their priamry audience will be children. Beyond that, I'd say the red line is the actual limit of the law. I'm more than unhappy with the PC pirate who is half street performer, half comedian, but never shows anything of what the reality was.

Hawkyns

Master Gunner

[Fox]

Moderator hat on.

I'm sure that Black Fox is suitably grateful for the answers so far, and if anybody has anything new to add then please feel free, but I think we have satisfactorily established the following:

1. 'Real' and 'realistic' are not the same thing.

2. 'Reenacting' and 'being, in real life' are not the same thing.

3. Many pirates did not rape and/or murder.

4. There are plenty of people who reenact Nazis, slavers, inquisitors, conquistadors, kommisars, and just about any other historical 'bad guy' you can think of - except maybe cannibals, but are they really bad guys? I mean, everyone's gotta eat, right?

Moderator hat off.

I have not read Pyrates Way (or any other pirate magazine for that matter), but if this is indicative of the level of journalism involved I don't imagine I shall bother in the future. This opinion is entirely mine and not representative of the management of the Pub. For what it's worth, here are my answers to the questions:

1. Don't be so daft.

2. Don't be so naive.

3. What was the question again?

By all means make use of this answer, but please do not include my name.

[Captain Jim]

I believe we have the difinitive answer. Well done, as always, Mr Foxe.

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Seems he's taken a post/email from a troll, and tried to take it seriously.