Longrifles

[Oscar Henry]

not sure if this goes here or in the armory but while i was sitting at my bench at work thinking about pirate things; a random thought came to mind.

we know that the Kentucky Longrifle dates back to around 1730 and is a bastardization of sorts of the Pennsylvania rifle brought over from the Germans which is an adaptation of the Jager rifle used for hunting in Germany, so my question is... is it possible that a few of these Jager rifles could have made their way into the hands of privateers and or pirates during early 18th century and on? in my mind i can see the possibility being that it could have been raided from a vessel or if a sailor was from that part of the world making it's way on board some vessels.

[Red John]

Excellent question - a jaeger's handy size would be ideal for shipboard use, but then the difficulty of loading a rifled weapon on a rolling deck or in the tops, as compared to a smoothbore, would be considerable, and the advantages of a rifled weapon over smoothbore at short ranges are of course not as great as at longer ranges. I think evidence (lack of mention in much of the historical record) and common sense (the factors above) weigh against using jaegers on board,other than maybe as an expedient until you found something more practical, but it is an intriguing idea. Interested in what the resident experts of the Pub have to offer . . .

[Jas. Hook]

In current fictional writing it's interesting that two authors introduce two non-muskets into their naval series. In John Drake's 'Long John Silver' series he has characters using Pennsylvania Rifles and in Dewey Lambdin's 'Alan Lewrie' series has the characters using breachloading Ferguson Rifles.

Jas. Hook

[Oscar Henry]

hmm... that is interesting

[michaelsbagley]

Possible.... well maybe. Likely, not very.

Rifles were a rare and valuable item in their early years. And rifles barrels are more susceptible to rust than smooth bores. Rifles really did not start to become common in the colonies until after the GAoP. And they were first popularized as a hunting tool, not a weapon, and ship records would likely have noted such an uncommon item being on board.

[Jas. Hook]

Aye Michael, in the story they weren't ship issue but personal weapons and were used in the story to accomplish feats of long distance accuracy.

As for the GAoP... both of the timelines were post Golden Age. LJS was about 1750's and in Lewrie with the Carolina Loyalist Milita (Ferguson armed) at the Siege of Yorktown 1781 and carried afterward.

Jas. Hook

Edited August 31, 2012 by Jas. Hook

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Well here is a moder source about pirates and rifles.

http://pirates.hegewisch.net/musketW.html

So Why not jäger (ah how good it feels to get "ä" here) rifles... but actual centucy rifles... well in theory why not.

This all also reminds of one question that belongs to the Pirate nationalities tread.

[Mission]

The Hegewisch site is notoriously unreliable from my experience.

Someone just pointed out their pirate medicine section to me recently. I wasn't aware they had created such a section because I don't visit their site based on my past experience with it. But I decided to give it a look. I found two major glaring factual errors in the first page I opened.

Amputation.

"Until 1718, a leg amputation above the knee almost always ended in the the patient bleeding to death."

This is not provably true. We don't really know the mortality rate, but I've seen it estimated at about 50%. That's hardly "almost always." I have multiple accounts of people surviving amputations.

"The drug most commonly used to lessen pain was Strong spirits such as rum or whiskey."

That's not really true either, at least not before an operation. I have only a single period account of an operation where alcohol was advised before the operation (an amputation) and the prescription was for 1/2 a glass of wine. A drunken patient would do unexpected things during a painful operation.

Both of these are the sort of thing that you hear about in movies. I didn't read any further. They kept babbling about the Petit tourniquet which was not widely used during the golden age at all.

So I continue not to trust that website. It's not well researched and half of it seems like that sort of hearsay.

[hitman]

In current fictional writing it's interesting that two authors introduce two non-muskets into their naval series. In John Drake's 'Long John Silver' series he has characters using Pennsylvania Rifles and in Dewey Lambdin's 'Alan Lewrie' series has the characters using breachloading Ferguson Rifles.

Jas. Hook

Jas not to be too spoiler-y but Lambdin also introduces an Austrian air rifle into the mix later in the series. To be frank Lambdin is fond of the weapons in his books so I'm sure the series will have even more odd balls later.

[Gentleman of Fortune]

I guess anything is possible right?

Rifles would be fairly expensive... so you could create some scenario where a rich European was going to the Amercas and brought his Rifle with him and...... yadda yadda yadda.

But If Rifles were on a boat in numbers, they probalby had folks on board that knew how to use them... and thus wouldn't present an easy prey for the pirates.

I am sure some young whipper snapper will pipe up to the contrary, but I'll say, Its my OPINION, that Pirates, by nature, were looking for the easy money and that means easy target.

Lets go after the merhcant ship that has 26 sailors on board.... 145 to 26... love them odds.

Lets skip that Armed merchantman with 100 sailors and armed... not good odds.

I think you could get the most common GAOP long gun (whatever you argue that is) and it would still probably be the ONLY one at a 2012 re-enactment/event.

I vote for the Buccanneer Musket... WAY COOL and way Period

[Captain Jim]

I like the French fusil de chasse. Introduced in the 1670's and imported in various grades and large numbers. A smoothbore, it is the successor to the buccaneer musket and is, to my eye anyway, a bit more graceful. The image below from Track of the Wolf.