Cutlass or knife in the teeth?

[Daniel]

The ruffian who clambers over the gunwale with the blade of his weapon clamped between his teeth is one of the iconic images of piracy. Obviously, there is some advantage to having both your hands free while you climb aboard another ship, but sashes and scabbards would seem to be a more practical solution than your mouth as a place to store your weapon while you climb.

Is there any historical evidence of pirates (or indeed anyone in the Age of Sail) boarding an enemy ship with cutlery in their teeth? I did search the Pub, but darned if I can find any previous threads on this question.

[Mission]

I was just making fun of this silly idea on a page in my latest Surgeon's Journal for the Santa Maria Event. (I'd like to share it here, but the Journal is not yet finished and I don't publish my Journals on the web before before they're finished. (Well, I don't publish them except to fans of the Surgeon's Journal Facebook Fan Page. )

It looks like pure Hollywood magic to me - where style rules over logic with an iron fist. I've yet to see a reference to anyone storing one's knife in their teeth at any time. Then again, there are precious few references to sheaths or scabbards at all in most of the stuff I've read. I mentioned one somewhere around here within the past few weeks from the General History. I believe it was to Bonnet's crew making scabbards out of some material they took off a ship.

[peglegstrick]

Sounds like a good way to lose a molar!

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Call me anything you like but I think that as basic things like that don’t need “evidence” people have probably done it in Stone Age and I see it being doing nowdays as well. I am a person who likes using teeth when I can so I would have done it. Still let us look to history.

But if you want to carry daggers etc. in your mouth you need to be sure that your teeth is up to the task. Daggers etc. are quite heavy and I think that many sailors would not even have good teeth enough to carry something such heavy.

Writing in the mid-1720s the Swiss Cesar de Saussure described RN issue biscuits, "as large as a plate, white, and so hard that those sailors who have no teeth, or bad ones, must crush them or soften them with water. I found them, however, very much to my taste, and they reminded me of nuts."

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Jean Bart in circa 1700 is having crenade fuses in his mouth

[Daniel]

Interesting picture. As I said, holding a blade in your mouth keeps your hands free while you climb. But I wonder why one would hold grenade fuses in your mouth?

One Halloween, by the way, lacking an actual cutlass, I carried a machete for my pirate costume, and sometimes posed with it in my teeth while my son knocked on the doors. The thought came swiftly to my mind: one good impact to either end of this thing, and it's coming out of my mouth. A comrade's shoe or hand in the wrong place, a wave making me hit the side of the ship while I step off the gunwale of the assault boat, spinning around a line as I climb, anything like that could make me lose the weapon.

The problem wouldn't be so bad with a short knife. But who wants a short knife as their primary weapon in a boarding fight?

[Mission]

Who wants to cut the hell out of their mouth while slipping or risk getting the knife caught in something and having it accidentally cut you or the fellow following you as it tumbles down? The whole idea seems foolish. It implies that an item carried by almost every sailor would not have a proper place to put it while engaging in an activity as rigorous and likely to cause the loss of the knife as climbing.

I could see lighting a fuse and sticking that in your mouth briefly, but as goofy-looking as that image has been rendered, I'd say showing Bart with fuses sticking out of either side was either artistic license for dramatic purposes or a misunderstanding by the artist.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Bart is keeping those fuses for the grenades that the sailor is holding.

Interesting I see some sence in it. I carry many thing in my mouth (rather stupid habit) when walking in stairs and carryign lots of stuff.

But belt or sash would be better.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Cascabel]

I believe he is not carrying fuses in his mouth, but a piece of slow match to be used for lighting the grenade fuses. It is lit at both ends, similar to the technique used for a matchlock gun, in case one end gets accidentally extinguished. It can be re-lit from the still burning end. Actually a very sensible idea to have a handy way to light your grenades without occupying your hands. Easily dropped from his mouth when no longer needed.

>>>>> Cascabel

[Mission]

Cascabel's explanation makes sense to me. It also explains the parity of the fuse in his mouth.

Now, swashbuckler, for the record, how many times have you carried a sharpened blade in your mouth? Not stuck it in your mouth when you speared a grape with it (which is still fraught with peril, but I must confess I have done as much), but actually walked around with a honed piece of metal between your jaws?

[Tartan Jack]

A single edge, I could see-> if it is a short blade (only a few inches). But, then, that wouldn't have much reason in the given context as such wouldn't be useful for anything. Sticking it in a sleeve/scabbard would make much more sense. A longer (even single edged) blade is likely to cut your own hands/arms or whatever your climbing upon (besides anyone else around you). Now, doing the same while doing another job is an entirely different story . . .

As for the fuse cord/slow match, that's a perfectly logical and a good place for a double lit one where one's hands are likely to be full. It would make lighting them easier and faster to dispose of a load when they would be most effective. Good call, Cascabel.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Tartan Jack

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Cascabel's explanation makes sense to me. It also explains the parity of the fuse in his mouth.

Now, swashbuckler, for the record, how many times have you carried a sharpened blade in your mouth? Not stuck it in your mouth when you speared a grape with it (which is still fraught with peril, but I must confess I have done as much), but actually walked around with a honed piece of metal between your jaws?

well to me it is the same what tread it is fuse or what ever

Well not too often but just for that I could be annoying I did it with a quite big knife and climbed around and run and if there is only one sharp edge it does not hurt your mouth nor cause any risks. Many gaop blades as far as I know had only one really sharp edge (swords at least).

Edited June 7, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Bright]

[peglegstrick]

The Pub needs a like button!

[Fox]

Why carry a blade in your teeth when you've probably got a perfectly good scabbard for it?

One other reason for carrying match in your teeth might be so that you didn't put it into your satchel of grenades when you reached in to take one out.

[Mission]

Why carry a blade in your teeth when you've probably got a perfectly good scabbard for it?

My point.

Although if you have to do it, be a skeleton pirate so you won't care about accidentally slicing something off because of a clumsy misstep. It looks much, much cooler (like Master Twigg here) and it probably makes sense on some level in that world.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

I think Mission exaggerate the the risks of holding the blade in the mouth. But indeed it is a bit risky

indeed skeleton pirates at least don't have any problem with that.

cursed pirate don't feel .. Not the wind on face, nor the spray of the sea...nor the warmth of a woman's flesh.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

Our dear friend Howard Pyle liked the idea

[Brit.Privateer]

Someone here said something about cutlass blades being really sharp. That isn't necessarily true. The expert I know on this issue is Privateer Armoury, since they are the ones that explained this to me. When I ordered a fully functional cutlass from them, I though the blade was not that sharp. Actually, through talking with them and trying it out myself, the cutlass is sharp enough to do its job since it has so much weight behind the edge. Learn something everyday - you don't need a razor-sharp edge for a effective sword.

[Tartan Jack]

The ruffian who clambers over the gunwale with the blade of his weapon clamped between his teeth is one of the iconic images of piracy. Obviously, there is some advantage to having both your hands free while you climb aboard another ship, but sashes and scabbards would seem to be a more practical solution than your mouth as a place to store your weapon while you climb.

Is there any historical evidence of pirates (or indeed anyone in the Age of Sail) boarding an enemy ship with cutlery in their teeth? I did search the Pub, but darned if I can find any previous threads on this question.

The ruffian who clambers over the gunwale with the blade of his weapon clamped between his teeth is one of the iconic images of piracy.

Our dear friend Howard Pyle liked the idea

Those aren't exactly the same thing. One is the climbing up and over of part of the ship, while the other is standing in the middle of a fight.

On the middle of a fight, having quick access to the "next weapon" is quite useful when gunpowder weapons were one-shot (not enough time to bother to reload). The shots below are easily that-> what is in the teeth is the next go-to weapon that would be useful after what's in the hand is used.

Yet, while climbing up and over from one ship/boat/craft to another is another matter and has other dangers such as random human limbs in fairly close proximity, any ladders or other "help" made of rope, and the fact that a blade and handle sticking out is able to snag other stuff on the way (like when anyone turns their neck while the 2-anchor points are moving on the waves) makes the use of anything longer than single-edged knife more dangerous than helpful. Plus, anything short is more practical in a sheathed storage close-at-hand, but not in the mouth.

[Mission]

Ah, Howard Pyle. Creator of several of the much cherished pirate myths that the movies hold dear.

I must say, I'm impressed that someone would stick a cutlass in their mouth while shooting. I wouldn't think you'd want to do that for very long or your teeth would start to hurt.

Fighting and climbing with a sharp object in your mouth is the pirate equivalent of running with scissors.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

I wil never think this kind of stuff (keepind blades in your mouth) as myths

Still we can wonder were pirates literally armed to the teeth.

And we must remenber that while someting is stupid it does not mean that people would not do it or has not done it....

Edited June 10, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Mission]

It's a myth that it was a common pirate behavior. Just like wearing tattoos and earrings. Were there such behaviors? Yes. Did most pirates engage in them? Not without proof of their commonality they didn't. But you couldn't tell Pyle that.

[Swashbuckler 1700]

It's a myth that it was a common pirate behavior. Just like wearing tattoos and earrings. Were there such behaviors? Yes. Did most pirates engage in them? Not without proof of their commonality they didn't. But you couldn't tell Pyle that.

This is not an insult of any kind

I think those are myth too but I don't count this dagger thing as one. It is just so different.

We can debate stuff like "did pirates do nose picking" and then say it as a myth since it was not " common pirate behaviour".

Did pirates had daggers. they had. did they had teeth. eyes they had. What is the deal!

It is a quite different to do something as simple as what we are talking about than take ear piercings that needed lots of work, or get tattoos that were unknown in western culture.

Edited June 10, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700

[Fox]

It is a quite different to do something as simple as what we are talking about than take ear piercings that needed lots of work, or get tattoos that were unknown in western culture.

I don't think it's at all different. In either case we ask three questions:

1. Is it possible they did it?

2. Is there any evidence they did it?

3. Is there any logical reason that they might or might not do it?

Whether earrings, tattoos, bucket boots, or daggers in the teeth, the answer to all three questions is the same:

1. Yes.

2. No.

3. Logic suggests not.

Nose-picking is different of course:

1. Yes

2. No

3. Logic suggests probably.