Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I didn't say that yellow was the only colour used before 1718... Oh...I think that color did not matter much to pirates ... I believe that reason for yellow and black, white and black, black and white, red and black, red and white or what ever colors was that they were easily visible black stands out from the yellow background as well as white from the black... Edited March 15, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 If you insist I'll root out the original quote (though I've posted it on here before so it should be findable with a search). The original quote certainly suggests that Shelvocke/Betagh believed yellow to be the commonest colour for pirate flags in 1718. If you have any evidence to the contrary I'd be pleased to see it. I actually insist I would love to read it.... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 But black was certainly one of the used colors and there is references to it... but is there many?... Is the yellow reference for plague ships's yellow flag? Oh yes, by the early 1720s black was so common a colour that the phrase "black flag" was synonymous with a pirate flag. In 1718 however privateer George Shelvocke wanted to appear intimidating from a distance and so hoisted the colours of the Holy Roman Empire, a black eagle on a yellow field. The reason for doing so, and I'm paraphrasing the original account by one of his officers named William Betagh, was that it was the closest thing they had to a pirate flag, since pirate flags were yellow with a black skeleton. At that date, a yellow flag was not associated with quarantine. This is poing more and more of topic but the quarantine flag's history is not a simple one http://flagspot.net/flags/xf~q.html "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Is these statics still reliable https://pyracy.com/index.php/topic/4377-black-back-there-again-are-we/page__p__93086__hl__+yellow%20+flag%20+pirate__fromsearch__1#entry93086 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 On June 5 1719, according to William Betagh's account, George Shelvocke "ordered the Emperor's colours to be hoisted, which, without any reflection look the most thief-like of any worn by honest men; those of his Imperial Majesty are a black double headed eagle upon a yellow field, and those of the pirates a yellow field and black human skeleton; which at a small distance are not easily distinguished." I haven't counted recently, but thos statistics are still broadly accurate. I think I've found about half a dozen more flag descriptions since then, probably evenly divided between black and no colour specified, and all from after 1718 Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 On June 5 1719, according to William Betagh's account, George Shelvocke "ordered the Emperor's colours to be hoisted, which, without any reflection look the most thief-like of any worn by honest men; those of his Imperial Majesty are a black double headed eagle upon a yellow field, and those of the pirates a yellow field and black human skeleton; which at a small distance are not easily distinguished." I haven't counted recently, but thos statistics are still broadly accurate. I think I've found about half a dozen more flag descriptions since then, probably evenly divided between black and no colour specified, and all from after 1718 Well quote is still quite vague but it is good source for that yellow was popular color....Is there actual references for actual some pirate using yellow flag? I am not saying that yellow was not popular color but I would like to know. I don't believe that all flags which color is not specified were yellow but that is not what you are about to say or? "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The phrasing of the quote makes it clear, I think, that Shelvocke thought that yellow was a common colour for pirate flags: 'of the pirates', when no specific pirate crew is mentioned, suggests that it's talking about pirates generally. Clearly Shelvocke thought that a yellow and black flag would be recognisable to others as a pirate flag. This is not to say that Shelvocke was right, but there's no reason to suppose that he wasn't. Neither does it mean that every flag was yellow. We know that after 1720 or so, although black was the predominant colour, there were pirate flags of other colours in use, so even if yellow was the predominant colour before 1718 that doesn't mean there weren't other colours in use to. What I will say is that for flags of an unspecified colour, yellow is as likely as any other colour, and possibly more so. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) The phrasing of the quote makes it clear, I think, that Shelvocke thought that yellow was a common colour for pirate flags: 'of the pirates', when no specific pirate crew is mentioned, suggests that it's talking about pirates generally. Clearly Shelvocke thought that a yellow and black flag would be recognisable to others as a pirate flag. This is not to say that Shelvocke was right, but there's no reason to suppose that he wasn't. Neither does it mean that every flag was yellow. We know that after 1720 or so, although black was the predominant colour, there were pirate flags of other colours in use, so even if yellow was the predominant colour before 1718 that doesn't mean there weren't other colours in use to. What I will say is that for flags of an unspecified colour, yellow is as likely as any other colour, and possibly more so. To me quote says that Shelvocke also believed that skeleton was the pirate symbol yes? (in reality it only one of many but indeed it was) So he believed that pirate flags had black skeleton on yellow backround. So this quote almost says that yellow flag should have had skeleton to be real pirate flag (since he said that eagle was meanigfull so if the flag had have no black markings it would not do as pirate flag). but skull/deaths head was also common (Wynne 1700, Bb 1718, worley 1718, Bonnet 1718 they don't fit to skeleton gategory perhaps not in yellow either) I mean that he believed that pirates generally used yellow flag with skeleton but what about flag with deads heads?... In any case yellow was one of the pirate flag colors and we should add yellow flag with the black and red jolly Rogers under the pirate flag title in our minds. For some reason I have started to think John Quelch's flag as yellow one since it practcally fits to gategory.... perhaps that flag alongside with some others gave the idea of yellow pirate flag to Shelvocke BTW is there evidence ( hair-splitting forgive me ) of that that Shelvocke's intimidation work or did his victims just wondered "what is the Holy Roman Empire doing here?"? I find odd that privateer was allowed to use false colors was that not against law or someting... Edited March 15, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) The phrasing of the quote makes it clear, I think, that Shelvocke thought that yellow was a common colour for pirate flags: 'of the pirates', when no specific pirate crew is mentioned, suggests that it's talking about pirates generally. Clearly Shelvocke thought that a yellow and black flag would be recognisable to others as a pirate flag. This is not to say that Shelvocke was right, but there's no reason to suppose that he wasn't. Neither does it mean that every flag was yellow. We know that after 1720 or so, although black was the predominant colour, there were pirate flags of other colours in use, so even if yellow was the predominant colour before 1718 that doesn't mean there weren't other colours in use to. What I will say is that for flags of an unspecified colour, yellow is as likely as any other colour, and possibly more so. Did the buccaneers use the plain black flag in 17th century? and did Drake too so in 16th century? in any case we have good description of Worleys black flag and he died in early 1719 and operated mainly in 1718 and he had black flag. So even then when yellow was popular black were in use but that is nothing new.... and in 1720 black flag was really popular not to metion of flag references later in 1720s... And many references like Roberts' flags was described in the Boston Gazette, 22nd August 1720 as "a Black Flag with Death's head and a cutlass in it". And England's flag was certainly black... it is unlikely that black flag would have suddenly come in the use but since you are not saing that it would have happened like that there is not need for debate I was now mainly talking with myself now... Edited March 15, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I find odd that privateer was allowed to use false colors was that not against law or someting... From the wiki entry on false colors: "This practice [displaying false colors] was considered acceptable in naval warfare, provided the false flag was lowered and the national flag raised before engaging in battle." The wiki entry seems focused on the 20th century, but I'll bet it happened more than once in the regular navy during the GAoP. All's fair in love and war. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) The phrasing of the quote makes it clear, I think, that Shelvocke thought that yellow was a common colour for pirate flags: 'of the pirates', when no specific pirate crew is mentioned, suggests that it's talking about pirates generally. Clearly Shelvocke thought that a yellow and black flag would be recognisable to others as a pirate flag. This is not to say that Shelvocke was right, but there's no reason to suppose that he wasn't. Neither does it mean that every flag was yellow. We know that after 1720 or so, although black was the predominant colour, there were pirate flags of other colours in use, so even if yellow was the predominant colour before 1718 that doesn't mean there weren't other colours in use to. What I will say is that for flags of an unspecified colour, yellow is as likely as any other colour, and possibly more so. ... If it is not great problem to you I would be happy if you could give some more flag descriptions of real flags like this one that was from that other tread... Lyne's flag is described in a newspaper of March 1726 as a "Black Silk flagg with a Representation of a Man with a Cutlass in one Hand and a Pistol in the other Extended". since these are hard to find... :lol: Do we know the Color of the Wynnes's flag or Bellamy's? Edited March 15, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 On June 5 1719, according to William Betagh's account, George Shelvocke "ordered the Emperor's colours to be hoisted, which, without any reflection look the most thief-like of any worn by honest men; those of his Imperial Majesty are a black double headed eagle upon a yellow field, and those of the pirates a yellow field and black human skeleton; which at a small distance are not easily distinguished." I haven't counted recently, but thos statistics are still broadly accurate. I think I've found about half a dozen more flag descriptions since then, probably evenly divided between black and no colour specified, and all from after 1718 Some of the flags which color is unknow were perhaps black or some other colors like red, white or that yellow.... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) The phrasing of the quote makes it clear, I think, that Shelvocke thought that yellow was a common colour for pirate flags: 'of the pirates', when no specific pirate crew is mentioned, suggests that it's talking about pirates generally. Clearly Shelvocke thought that a yellow and black flag would be recognisable to others as a pirate flag. This is not to say that Shelvocke was right, but there's no reason to suppose that he wasn't. Neither does it mean that every flag was yellow. We know that after 1720 or so, although black was the predominant colour, there were pirate flags of other colours in use, so even if yellow was the predominant colour before 1718 that doesn't mean there weren't other colours in use to. What I will say is that for flags of an unspecified colour, yellow is as likely as any other colour, and possibly more so. I still think that we cannot say that before 1718 yellow was the commonest color but I think that we can say that it was clearly popular. If you have nothing to add lets stop talking yellow flags Is there any other evidence for yellow flag than that quote ? Edited March 15, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 On June 5 1719, according to William Betagh's account, George Shelvocke "ordered the Emperor's colours to be hoisted, which, without any reflection look the most thief-like of any worn by honest men; those of his Imperial Majesty are a black double headed eagle upon a yellow field, and those of the pirates a yellow field and black human skeleton; which at a small distance are not easily distinguished." I haven't counted recently, but thos statistics are still broadly accurate. I think I've found about half a dozen more flag descriptions since then, probably evenly divided between black and no colour specified, and all from after 1718 Just curious is there any decent pirate flag book or someting ever made? "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 To me quote says that Shelvocke also believed that skeleton was the pirate symbol yes? (in reality it only one of many but indeed it was) So he believed that pirate flags had black skeleton on yellow backround. So this quote almost says that yellow flag should have had skeleton to be real pirate flag (since he said that eagle was meanigfull so if the flag had have no black markings it would not do as pirate flag). but skull/deaths head was also common (Wynne 1700, Bb 1718, worley 1718, Bonnet 1718 they don't fit to skeleton gategory perhaps not in yellow either) I mean that he believed that pirates generally used yellow flag with skeleton but what about flag with deads heads?... To the average chap on the street a "pirate flag" is black with a white skull and crossed bones. Only someone who'd actually looked into pirate history is likely to be aware of different designs and colours. To the average George Shelvocke on the street a "pirate flag" was yellow with a black skeleton... For some reason I have started to think John Quelch's flag as yellow one since it practcally fits to gategory.... perhaps that flag alongside with some others gave the idea of yellow pirate flag to Shelvocke "John Quelch's" flag wasn't John Quelch's flag. The only flag he's actually recorded as flying is the St. George's cross of England. BTW is there evidence ( hair-splitting forgive me ) of that that Shelvocke's intimidation work or did his victims just wondered "what is the Holy Roman Empire doing here?"? Well, he captured the ship... I find odd that privateer was allowed to use false colors was that not against law or someting... False colours were a common and accepted ruse de guerre. Also, Shelvocke wasn't noted for following the rules anyway. Did the buccaneers use the plain black flag in 17th century? and did Drake too so in 16th century? Drake definitely used black flags and pennants at Cartagena in 1585. I can't think of any 17th century buccaneers with black flags. If it is not great problem to you I would be happy if you could give some more flag descriptions of real flags like this one that was from that other tread... I've got quite a lot of them! A search on the forums should find you quite a few Do we know the Color of the Wynnes's flag or Bellamy's? Wynne's flag and both of Bellamy's were black. Bellamy is also described flying a Union flag. Is there any other evidence for yellow flag than that quote ? Not that I know of. Just curious is there any decent pirate flag book or someting ever made? No. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) To me quote says that Shelvocke also believed that skeleton was the pirate symbol yes? (in reality it only one of many but indeed it was) So he believed that pirate flags had black skeleton on yellow backround. So this quote almost says that yellow flag should have had skeleton to be real pirate flag (since he said that eagle was meanigfull so if the flag had have no black markings it would not do as pirate flag). but skull/deaths head was also common (Wynne 1700, Bb 1718, worley 1718, Bonnet 1718 they don't fit to skeleton gategory perhaps not in yellow either) I mean that he believed that pirates generally used yellow flag with skeleton but what about flag with deads heads?... To the average chap on the street a "pirate flag" is black with a white skull and crossed bones. Only someone who'd actually looked into pirate history is likely to be aware of different designs and colours. To the average George Shelvocke on the street a "pirate flag" was yellow with a black skeleton... For some reason I have started to think John Quelch's flag as yellow one since it practcally fits to gategory.... perhaps that flag alongside with some others gave the idea of yellow pirate flag to Shelvocke "John Quelch's" flag wasn't John Quelch's flag. The only flag he's actually recorded as flying is the St. George's cross of England. Who did use that flag or did anyone? BTW is there evidence ( hair-splitting forgive me ) of that that Shelvocke's intimidation work or did his victims just wondered "what is the Holy Roman Empire doing here?"? Well, he captured the ship... He got also cannons I find odd that privateer was allowed to use false colors was that not against law or someting... False colours were a common and accepted ruse de guerre. Also, Shelvocke wasn't noted for following the rules anyway. Oh ofcource sorry my sillynes... Did the buccaneers use the plain black flag in 17th century? and did Drake too so in 16th century? Drake definitely used black flags and pennants at Cartagena in 1585. I can't think of any 17th century buccaneers with black flags. Gordingly again.... he has (I am quite sure) said that somewere .... If it is not great problem to you I would be happy if you could give some more flag descriptions of real flags like this one that was from that other tread... I've got quite a lot of them! A search on the forums should find you quite a few ok Do we know the Color of the Wynnes's flag or Bellamy's? Wynne's flag and both of Bellamy's were black. Bellamy is also described flying a Union flag. Did the bellamy had more than one? so they did had black ones before 1718... I am not aruing of that yellow it was certainly popular style.... Is there any other evidence for yellow flag than that quote ? Not that I know of. Hmm.... Just curious is there any decent pirate flag book or someting ever made? No. Edited March 16, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 On June 5 1719, according to William Betagh's account, George Shelvocke "ordered the Emperor's colours to be hoisted, which, without any reflection look the most thief-like of any worn by honest men; those of his Imperial Majesty are a black double headed eagle upon a yellow field, and those of the pirates a yellow field and black human skeleton; which at a small distance are not easily distinguished." I haven't counted recently, but thos statistics are still broadly accurate. I think I've found about half a dozen more flag descriptions since then, probably evenly divided between black and no colour specified, and all from after 1718 Is this real desription of bellmy's flag? " a large black flag, with a death's head and bones across and gave chase to Captain Prince under-the-cloud colors" I have found ti somewhere in this forum... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 "John Quelch's" flag wasn't John Quelch's flag. The only flag he's actually recorded as flying is the St. George's cross of England.Who did use that flag or did anyone? Several of the Lowther/Low gang used the flag with the skeleton piercing a heart which is usually ascribed to John Quelch. Did the bellamy had more than one? so they did had black ones before 1718... I am not aruing of that yellow it was certainly popular style.... Yes, Bellamy had at least two, both described as black. I thought we'd established that black flags were around before 1718. Is this real desription of bellmy's flag? " a large black flag, with a death's head and bones across and gave chase to Captain Prince under-the-cloud colors"I have found ti somewhere in this forum... Yes, that comes from the trial of the survivors from Bellamy's crew, except that in the original it's "under the said colours" Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) "John Quelch's" flag wasn't John Quelch's flag. The only flag he's actually recorded as flying is the St. George's cross of England.Who did use that flag or did anyone? Several of the Lowther/Low gang used the flag with the skeleton piercing a heart which is usually ascribed to John Quelch. Did the bellamy had more than one? so they did had black ones before 1718... I am not aruing of that yellow it was certainly popular style.... Yes, Bellamy had at least two, both described as black. I thought we'd established that black flags were around before 1718. Is this real desription of bellmy's flag? " a large black flag, with a death's head and bones across and gave chase to Captain Prince under-the-cloud colors"I have found ti somewhere in this forum... Yes, that comes from the trial of the survivors from Bellamy's crew, except that in the original it's "under the said colours" Ok What is the original desription of Wynne's flag? Edited March 18, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Captain St. John Cranby of HMS Poole described the Wynne's flag as "a sable ensigne with Cross bones, a Death's head, and an hour glase". Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Captain St. John Cranby of HMS Poole described the Wynne's flag as "a sable ensigne with Cross bones, a Death's head, and an hour glase". What does sable mean in this context? interesting..... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sable is the heraldic term for black. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sable is the heraldic term for black. ok "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 (edited) Good exchange I'd like to clarify my comments from other flag posts referred to ealier in this thread First though, if anyone knows anything about pirate flags of the GAOP, it'd be Foxe... not that new ideas or info can't be used to challenge him, as thats what keeps us on our toes... Also, the picture of the original pirate flag posted a few messges back acutally comes from the 1800s... no? Anyway. In the research that I did on Naval/Maritime flags of the GAOP, and the ones existing in museums today, were made of wool bunting. While that certainly doesn eliminate silk, linen, or hemp canvas, it just gives us a glimpse of what some of the flags were made of. These are mostly Spanish and English naval flags... but naval flags out of wool bunting none the less. The weave is a funky 2x1 or 1x2, weft/weave, I can't remember exactly now, but its a weave that helps flags fly. This is where the conjecture (fun part) comes in. My guess is/was that pirate flags, more often than not, were probably made out of existing flags that were on hand... Ships, be it merchant, civilian, or military, carried a wide range of signal flags, country flags etc in various colors. So, when a pirate flag was needed, and no Pirate-Mart or Scoundrels-R-Us was available, they would make their own flag out of whatever the flag maker/crew/captain felt appropriate. The story of the Emporer's Yellow Double eagle/yellow flag folds nicely into this theory.... "what do we have, ok, that is it". Another guess is that priates probably cared a whole lot less about certain things than we do now... "Hey Black Jim, your skeleton sucks... it looks like a scarecrow..." The majority of GAOP pirates were probably just attacking the small transports with sugar, or other un-sexy goods on board to make a quick shilling anyway... no need for anything fancy... just scare them OUT of fighting. A couple years back, I was going to recreate a pirate flag usuing the above conjecture, I acquired a stash of 1930s-1940s ships signal flags... made from wool bunting... and was going to take them apart and re-assemble them into a "period" style unsexy pirate flag. Still got the flags if anyone wants to pick up the dream where I left off..... Edited March 24, 2012 by Gentleman of Fortune Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Good exchange I'd like to clarify my comments from other flag posts referred to ealier in this thread First though, if anyone knows anything about pirate flags of the GAOP, it'd be Foxe... not that new ideas or info can't be used to challenge him, as thats what keeps us on our toes... Also, the picture of the original pirate flag posted a few messges back acutally comes from the 1800s... no? Yeas it is from 1800s and is now in Åland museum Finland (I am Finn btw) originally it was used by Barbary pirates in Africa until finnish sailors captured it as trinket Anyway. In the research that I did on Naval/Maritime flags of the GAOP, and the ones existing in museums today, were made of wool bunting. While that certainly doesn eliminate silk, linen, or hemp canvas, it just gives us a glimpse of what some of the flags were made of. These are mostly Spanish and English naval flags... but naval flags out of wool bunting none the less. The weave is a funky 2x1 or 1x2, weft/weave, I can't remember exactly now, but its a weave that helps flags fly. This is where the conjecture (fun part) comes in. My guess is/was that pirate flags, more often than not, were probably made out of existing flags that were on hand... Ships be it merchant, civilian, or military, carried a wide range of signal flags, country flags etc in various colors. So, when a pirate flag was needed, and no Pirate-Mart or Scoundrels-R-Us was available, they would make thier own flag out of whatever the flag maker/crew/captain felt appropriate. The story of the Emporer's Yellow Double eagle/yellow flag folds nicely into this theory.... "what do we have, ok, that is it". Another guess is that priates probably cared a whole lot less about certain things than we do now... "Hey Black Jim, your skeleton sucks... it looks like a scarecrow..." The majority of GAOP pirates were probably just attacking the small transports with sugar, or other un-sexy goods on board to make a quick shilling anyway... no need for anything fancy... just scare them OUT of fighting. Sugar is hot! don't insult it! (at least in rum tot) A couple years back, I was going to recreate a pirate flag usuing the above conjecture, I acquired a stash of 1930s-1940s ships signal flags... made from wool bunting... and was going to take them apart and re-assemble them into a "period" style unsexy pirate flag. Still got the flags if anyone wants to pick up the dream where I left off..... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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