Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) Hi I would to share some pictures about GAoP period... you may know these but some perhaps don't Captain Robert Knox of the East India Company French naval officer circa 1700 English admiral circa 1700 Edited March 25, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Mission Posted March 2, 2012 Posted March 2, 2012 "entre les bras de la mort" Cool. Imagine wearing ribbon tied shoes into battle. I wonder if that isn't a bit fanciful a drawing, made to make a point. (Death being a clear motif.) Then again, he appears to be French... Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Posted March 3, 2012 I think it is bit propaganda stuff. How our (french picture) brave officers defy death to serve our king.... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Note the simiralities of the admiral and other oficer's dress... admiral english and it is by dutch artists and other from the french one... Edited March 23, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Posted March 3, 2012 more interesting pics here Following pics are dutch sailor from 1695-1730 so from Gaop "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Mission Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 more interesting pics here Following pics are dutch sailor from 1695-1730 so from Gaop Say, do you know the artist on this one? I wonder what that thing that she's holding over his head is supposed to be? A little bag of money? Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 3, 2012 Author Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) more interesting pics here Following pics are dutch sailors from 1695-1730 so from Gaop Say, do you know the artist on this one? I wonder what that thing that she's holding over his head is supposed to be? A little bag of money? It is autentic but artist is unknown to me... That bag seems to money bag... payment for her services Edited March 3, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 5, 2012 Author Posted March 5, 2012 More pics... some of these are just sligtly later time that GAoP. Spanish captain c.1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Iron Jon Posted March 5, 2012 Posted March 5, 2012 more interesting pics here Following pics are dutch sailor from 1695-1730 so from Gaop Say, do you know the artist on this one? I wonder what that thing that she's holding over his head is supposed to be? A little bag of money? Another good picture for the sailors wearing earrings thread! Jonathan Washbourne "Jonathan Washbourne Junr of Bridgwater appeared in court and was ordered to pay £5 fees and charges or be publicly whipped 20 stripes for his abusive and uncivil behaviour to Elizabeth Canaday Late of said Bridgwater by Thrusting up or putting of a skunk under the Cloaths to her Naked Body And then saying he had Done the office of a midwife." (from The Plymouth Journal, July 1701)
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 more interesting pics here Following pics are dutch sailor from 1695-1730 so from Gaop Say, do you know the artist on this one? I wonder what that thing that she's holding over his head is supposed to be? A little bag of money? Another good picture for the sailors wearing earrings thread! Yep good sourse for earrings. they seems to be dutch style since there is 2 other pics of Dutch. one which makes pare with this (they are from 1695) and other from year 1720(so in the GAoP see this pic in this tread https://pyracy.com/index.php/topic/6921-an-earring-for-your-perusal/page__st__20 . But it is good to note that it seems to mainly Dutch style and there were only some Dutch pirates (but there were) but real popularity of earring seems to be quite small. Also this kind of earrings are different that those Hollywood's or Pyle's hoops. Still it really well plausible that some pirates had earrings and since there is these pics it is not completely myth. Two different artists have put earrings to sailor so it is certainly not artistic error and thus good evidence. "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 Here is perhaps well know pic I am going to analyse this circa 1730 painting of merchant captain and his look because it is fun. While this pic proves that even captain would dress practical clothing there some notes that I make. When I first saw this pic I I thought that " that is a plain looking captain but that is not the case. - note the coat it is not justakorps but it is fur edged and actully to me it seems to be bit snobby... fur is after all not very cheap - He holds an Elton quadrant and stands against a background of rocks. The prominence given to the experimental quadrant may indicate that the sitter is Elton himself or someone closely associated with him, possibly Captain Walter Hoxton. He was captain of the ship 'Baltimore' and tested Elton's quadrant on a voyage from the Thames to Maryland and back in 1730 (note that his clothing seems to be mande for cold weather and it can get cold in north atlantic where he sailed. So slaver captain in West-Indies would use bit lighther gear) - He is young and thus maybe his wealth is only accumulating so perhaps he looks a little plain. Compare him with that earlier pic of EIC captain -Hat is a fur cap with odd looking peak. While it is not perhaps good looking it is not the cheapest one and it is bit bigger than the common sailors's fur caps. - a Sahs and a sword are quite pretty looking. Some website says that that is hanger but to me it looks like small sword... - His head is bald. I believe that reason to that is that he is not using his wig on the sea. I have seen some pics of gentleman withouth wigs from this period and the look is the same. this other pic also gives you impression that even captain would not use wig while at sea. Note that both captains use a scarf/ turban type thing to cover his bald head. So perhaps that first captain is not plain after all. The latter pic is from 1740s. "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Mission Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 When I saw the dog in the wig in that last one, I suspected it was at least partially satirical and, sure enough, if you blow it up you'll find Hogarth's name on it. I think I'll make that one my avatar. It's been awhile since I changed it... Jib, he is getting them from all over the place, probably doing some sort of image search. (From experience, I can tell you that it can be a right pain the arse to find period images of what you're looking for.) So it's a nice thread from that perspective. Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) When I saw the dog in the wig in that last one, I suspected it was at least partially satirical and, sure enough, if you blow it up you'll find Hogarth's name on it. I think I'll make that one my avatar. It's been awhile since I changed it... Jib, he is getting them from all over the place, probably doing some sort of image search. (From experience, I can tell you that it can be a right pain the arse to find period images of what you're looking for.) So it's a nice thread from that perspective. It is Hogarts's... Edited March 6, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 BTW is that (latter pic) red fur edged sting a coat too ( Captn is just not put it on yet ). see there is buttons there and that on captains hand seems to be sleeve... interesting I have always thought it as red fur cloak but it seem sto be in fact a coat... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I found no better thing to do in my holiday so... Here is good old "The cloth shop" with colors. featuring Dutch captain and cabinboy http://www.niceartga...-Shop-1709.html Here some late 17th century dutch port view... Clik it to make it bigger and see all those juicy details including but not limited to: port stuff, Thrum caps, vessels... Edited March 6, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Mission Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 BTW is that (latter pic) red fur edged sting a coat too ( Captn is just not put it on yet ). see there is buttons there and that on captains hand seems to be sleeve... interesting I have always thought it as red fur cloak but it seem sto be in fact a coat... Tom Servo: "A young Ben Franklin prepares for his role as Santa." Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 BTW is that (latter pic) red fur edged sting a coat too ( Captn is just not put it on yet ). see there is buttons there and that on captains hand seems to be sleeve... interesting I have always thought it as red fur cloak but it seem sto be in fact a coat... Tom Servo: "A young Ben Franklin prepares for his role as Santa." Aye... "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Dread Pyrate Greyhound Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 beautiful pictures. Let every man Know freedom, Kings be damned, And let the Devil sort out the mess afterwards.
jendobyns Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 FWIW, this is what I'm seeing: Blue and red fur lined (edged) dressing gown/banyans. Shape and other details can vary from loose (as in that first pic of the seated gentleman in brown and big wig) to tailored more closely to the body (like long versions of the jacket of the man on the far left carrying the tray--but I think that closely tailored style is much later in the 18C, maybe 1780's or so). Both red and blue garments look like much less formal attire, probably wool, fulled and perhaps brushed. It's impossible to tell what the lining is on the blue garment. Note there is no fur on the sleeve like there is on the red. Possibly faced with the same blue wool for the turn backs on cuffs. No visible closures. The red version appears to be fur edged and silk lined (see the sheen on the lining?). Head coverings vary here, and I have not seen a hat quite like this first one on a man. It looks very much like a woman's later period bonnet. Will try to look into that further. Otherwise, it looks like he's wearing a cap underneath it. Possibly one similar to the one on the man carrying the tray but not folded up. The turban is a very stylish thing, fashions a la Turk were popular leisure attire at one point and seem to have varying interpretations on the original Turkish garments. And that Turkish influence might also be reflected in the cross-over waistcoat the first gentleman is wearing. It appears to be a sleeved waistcoat, too, what an interesting combination of features! Perhaps a nod to the subject's other travels? HIs look is very exotic. Yep, there is fur, but if it's just along the edges, that will give the appearance of richness without the expense (or bulk) of a full fur lining. Fabric is the major expense, so what shows is most important, linings are often much cheaper materials. The silk lining could be for added warmth without bulk. Love the look, would wonder about wearing a sword in casual clothes like that for anything but a portrait, though. Jen Here is perhaps well know pic I am going to analyse this circa 1730 painting of merchant captain and his look because it is fun. While this pic proves that even captain would dress practical clothing there some notes that I make. When I first saw this pic I I thought that " that is a plain looking captain but that is not the case. - note the coat it is not justakorps but it is fur edged and actully to me it seems to be bit snobby... fur is after all not very cheap - He holds an Elton quadrant and stands against a background of rocks. The prominence given to the experimental quadrant may indicate that the sitter is Elton himself or someone closely associated with him, possibly Captain Walter Hoxton. He was captain of the ship 'Baltimore' and tested Elton's quadrant on a voyage from the Thames to Maryland and back in 1730 (note that his clothing seems to be mande for cold weather and it can get cold in north atlantic where he sailed. So slaver captain in West-Indies would use bit lighther gear) - He is young and thus maybe his wealth is only accumulating so perhaps he looks a little plain. Compare him with that earlier pic of EIC captain -Hat is a fur cap with odd looking peak. While it is not perhaps good looking it is not the cheapest one and it is bit bigger than the common sailors's fur caps. - a Sahs and a sword are quite pretty looking. Some website says that that is hanger but to me it looks like small sword... - His head is bald. I believe that reason to that is that he is not using his wig on the sea. I have seen some pics of gentleman withouth wigs from this period and the look is the same. this other pic also gives you impression that even captain would not use wig while at sea. Note that both captains use a scarf/ turban type thing to cover his bald head. So perhaps that first captain is not plain after all. The latter pic is from 1740s.
Mission Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 FWIW, this is what I'm seeing: <snip> Yes, but the dog in the wig... Searching around the net, I found some descriptions of this painting. The general comment is that it has a great deal of satire in its make-up, which may explain the clothing to some degree. (The moral of this story is that you've always got to be wary of Hogarth's art because it may not completely represent what you think it represents.) From Electric Scotland (!): "In Buchanan House, Stirlingshire, the seat of the family, there is a painting, about quarter size, by Hogarth. It represents Lord George Graham at table in the cabin of his ship with attendants. Some parts of the group bear marks of the characteristic humour of the immortal artist." From Art for the Nation: (I threw in some paragraph breaks for readability): A conversation piece thought to be set in the captain's cabin of the 'Nottingham', 60 guns, and probably commissioned by the sitter, who was youngest son of the first Duke of Montrose, to celebrate his action off Ostend in June 1745. While commanding the frigate 'Bridgwater', 24 guns, Graham had attacked a squadron of French privateers, capturing valuable prizes. His reward was the command of the larger 'Nottingham'. On the right is a full-length portrait of Graham seated slightly to the left at a covered circular table, facing forward and glancing sideways, with a place-setting for dinner in front of him. Holding a long pipe in his right hand, his left rests on his cape and hip. Dressed in grey, he wears a gold-brocade waistcoat, a fur-lined red velvet cape round his shoulders, a velvet cap askew, breeches and slippers. Seated on the left in front of the table, with a place-setting under his left elbow, is a plainly attired man with his legs crossed, wearing a black coat, white collar and buckled shoes. His dress implies he is socially inferior to Graham but an educated man - perhaps a secretary or tutor - and it may be symbolic of this social difference that a salt-cellar lies on the table between them. He looks up out of the picture to the right and holds a ledger, with a nearly full famille-rose punch bowl and a dog at his feet. To his left, behind, dressed in white and standing under a hanging crown compass, a steward or cook holds a plate of roast fowl. The sails of another ship can be seen through the cabin's stern windows beyond. A black servant boy stands on the far right behind Graham, playing a pipe and tabor. Behind the table a standing man, presumably a singer, holds a sheet of music which may bear the title 'Farewell my Judy' and affirms that music unites the group. On the left, Graham's dog apparently joins the singing. [Here's the goods.] On the right a pug sits upright on a chair, wearing Graham's wig and holding a scroll. He represents Hogarth's dog, Trump, and thus the artist has placed himself in the portrait. His tongue lolls as he looks beyond the paper propped on a glass in front of him. The inclusion of servants and dogs invites a satirical commentary on Captain Graham and his circle. Lord George and the boy both have pipes and the boy's attire mimics his master's. Similarly Trump's senatorial pose, in Graham's wig, apes the formality of his official position (though at this period musical conductors used a roll of paper rather than a baton and this reference may be musical as well). Only the steward on the left directly confronts the viewer with his gaze. His smile invites the spectator into the picture, while he seems unaware that he is tipping gravy down the back of the seated man in front of him. Hogarth has thus introduced elements of humour into the portrait, which also implies political allusions. Cabin scenes of any sort are rare in oil painting and this is the most famous example in British art. Whether the setting was Graham's or Hogarth's idea is unknown but in either case it may have been inspired by Bartolommeo Nazari's similar painting of Lord Boyne and his friends in the cabin of the ship taking them to Lisbon from Venice in 1732. Boyne was certainly known to Hogarth (who painted his portrait) and Nazari's picture prompted an unusual number of contemporary copies, of which the Museum has an example (BHC2567). Hogarth's painting, which has long been a source of speculation as to its full meaning and the identity of Graham's 'secretary' and singing companion, was purchased from the Duke of Montrose in 1932 by Sir James Caird, the Museum's founding benefactor." By the by, here is the Nazari painting from this website. You will find an historical description of that painting on the site if that interests you. (Notice the cat under the table. Hee hee.) Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate."
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 6, 2012 Author Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Great analysing here that is what this tread was for... Nothing to add for othrer commets... Edited March 6, 2012 by Swashbuckler 1700 "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 Since this was tread for all pictures I show you some modern pics of historical sailors SO THIS ARE NOT FROM THE PERIOD Here are gallery of some and he or she has old sigarette gards about sailors so check them out http://www.flickr.com/photos/mando_gal/5021689416/in/photostream/ they are fairly accurate I dare to say.... You will find my buddy icon there.. "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted March 19, 2012 Author Posted March 19, 2012 Great page here http://jcb.lunaimagi...om/luna/servlet "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones
landlubbersanonymous Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Here some late 17th century dutch port view... Clik it to make it bigger and see all those juicy details including but not limited to: port stuff, Thrum caps, vessels... Kiitos Swashbuckler! That's awesome.
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