Defining the Juste-au-corps

[Jib]

I have some question about the Juste-au-corps. While I know that coats would vary from nation to nation and have slight differences from tailor to tailor what do we know about the construction and name of this garment?

Did they have functional outside pockets?

Did they have functional buttons to allow the coat to be sealed tightly in bad weather?

Were they lined?

Did they have inside pockets or is that a modern conveyance?

We hear names like "Great Coat" and "Frock Coat" but these seem to describe other types of garments. Juste-au-corps, spelled many ways, is French. (?) What would this garment be called in England, among the Dutch, Italians, Spanish, or other nations? Would it always have the title Juste-au-corps.

Historically when did this garment first appear? What did it evolve from? What did it evolve into?

Thanks for help!

[michaelsbagley]

I have some question about the Juste-au-corps. While I know that coats would vary from nation to nation and have slight differences from tailor to tailor what do we know about the construction and name of this garment?

To broad of a question to answer effectively.

Did they have functional outside pockets?

Some yes, some no.

Did they have functional buttons to allow the coat to be sealed tightly in bad weather?

Most did have buttons and buttonholes to close them with, the fashion would have been to wear them more open in warmer weather. Functional ones (not the fancy ones in museums) would have been buttoned up more often than not.

Were they lined?

Some yes, some no

Did they have inside pockets or is that a modern conveyance?

Not likely. The inside pocket is a more modern thing

We hear names like "Great Coat" and "Frock Coat" but these seem to describe other types of garments. Juste-au-corps, spelled many ways, is French. (?) What would this garment be called in England, among the Dutch, Italians, Spanish, or other nations? Would it always have the title Juste-au-corps.

Great Coat is generally a term for a heavy coat that is warn OVER a just-a-corps. Frock coat is what later period coats were generally referred to as (or basically what the Just-A-Corps evolved into). The name is French, I haven't studied enough period writings to know what else it was called (regional names, etc). But please keep in mind, classification is a more modern thing, in period it was more likely referred to as a "coat".

Historically when did this garment first appear? What did it evolve from? What did it evolve into?

The garment first started to show up in Western Europe in the 1660s. It is thought to have evolved from the eastern "zupon" (sp?), basically the long Slavic coats worn in the earlier 17th century. It basically evolved into the Frock coat.

Thanks for help!

As an aside, you obviously want a great deal of information regarding this style of coat, you'll find you are likely to get better answers if you space your questions out. It would take an essay length response to fully answer all the questions in your post to the depth you seem to want to know. Few folks want to write an essay on a forum like this.

[PLUNDERING PYLOS PARKER]

so then the Justaucorp is an earlier coat say 1650-1700, and the frock coat is say 1700-1780? basically the same coat but with slight diffrences over time is what the Justaucorp evolved into the frock coat?

i have noticed some Justaucorp coats have alot of buttons like one button every 1" to 2" apart , running the length of the chest to right above the knees, and the pockets are very low compared to the waist.

As to the frock coat from 1750,has less buttons and seems to be tailored tighter to the upper portion of the body and spreads outward, with pockets just below the waistline and less buttons on the front?

my Question is this, I know the styles changed throughout the years, but if a re enactor were to wear a early style Justaucorp say 1680 ish, How long after would it be accepted in society? Could it be worn in say 1740? or later?

[michaelsbagley]

I'd say the justacorps is more 1660 to 1680 (maybe 1690s), and while the term "frock" seems to be applied to coats after that time until the end of the 18th century, what a "frock" looks like seems to change every few decades. But remember, these terms are generally used more as modern classifications (while they may be used in period as well). Try not to get hung up in the term, and focus more on what a "coat" looks like in the decade you are aiming for. I have heard the term "justacorps" applied to French coats up to and including the French and Indian Wars (7 Years War late 1750s-early 1760s).

The number of buttons seems to be a fashion thing. It varies by country and decade. However, if you really want a generalization (and I don't advise this), plentiful buttons seem to be a more early thing than late thing. Also note the position of the pockets seem to vary by decade and country of origin.

As for how long a garment is acceptable in re-enactor terms.... That is a very subjective question. Personally I try to avoid wearing anything more than a decade or two out of time for the 17th and 18th century time frames. I might stretch an item as much as 30 years if I am really pressed to make an event of a specific time-frame and don't have the time to make something better. But That would be a rare thing for me indeed. Personally, I would avoid going to an event rather than wearing an item 50 years or more out of time for it. But I can be a bit more strict on myself than most are.

[Jib]

I rather wondered if the coat was more a product of the tailor. Each coat, individually made, would vary form person to person and place to place. That said, there would be a similar theme in the coats but each one slightly unique. A rich court coat might not have functional pockets and be lined for comfort. A less expensive coat perhaps having fewer buttons, functional pockets and no lining.

[PLUNDERING PYLOS PARKER]

Very intresting -good to know yer thoughts, here Michael. indeed 30 yrs after is what i will also go with. i am going with a late GAOP circa coat say around 1710-1720. but will use it when i go to 1750 F & I war events until i can have a 1757-63 coat made, and agree with yer descion on the time frame on wearing coats into other decades

[jendobyns]

I rather wondered if the coat was more a product of the tailor. Each coat, individually made, would vary form person to person and place to place. That said, there would be a similar theme in the coats but each one slightly unique. A rich court coat might not have functional pockets and be lined for comfort. A less expensive coat perhaps having fewer buttons, functional pockets and no lining.

Just-au-corps, as defined by Sieur Benist Boullay in his 1671 Le Tailleur Sincere has two fronts, one back and two sleeves. It is in the same category as Casaques and Soutaines, and shares this type of piecing with doublets. The term appears to be a somewhat transitional one for what is becoming a coat in the form we are more familiar with in later period (18c) clothing. But as Michael has pointed out, definitions are fuzzy. We cannot expect them to be more precise then than we are now. Terminology varies by part of country not just between different countries. But we know a lot more than we did even 20 years ago

Coats were (generally) made by tailors, for an individual, with materials provided by the person having the coat made. The expense in the garment was in the fabric, not the labor. You bought what you could afford, or sometimes more, considering debtors prisons

So the individual having the coat made had a lot of control over style, with input from the tailor (what is fashionable, what style of buttons can be done, etc.) Lining is a function of protecting the raw edges and seams of the outer fabric from wear and providing additional reinforcement and support in areas of stress. Silk and linen fray easily and would be lined, and finer woolens as well where it was necessary. Hardier woolens, like broadcloth, would not need lining as much since they are quite dense and do not fray easily. Broadcloth can also be stitched more closely, and so a coat made from that is designed to last (as opposed to silk, which cannot be stitched closely-6 to 8 stitches per inch usually- and can eventually break, the fabric giving way before the stitching).

Number of buttons and placement of pockets varies by decade, function of garment (there is a style of button still used for court suits today that became fashionable at the end of the 18C) and location. If you look at a collection of suits by decade, you can see that location of pocket (earlier, it's halfway to the knees, later it's closer to the waist), angle of pocket slit (vertical, horizontal), style of flap (curvy, straight), shape of flap pointed or wavy), shape of the pocket slit (earlier period can be more of a triangular pocket slit, later tends to be more of a crescent shape, for example), all tend to change over time. Button holes can also vary because someone is creative in their design. Varying the spacing to have groups of holes, then space, then another group, has been known to happen. They aren't always evenly spaced and consistent. (just making this even more confusing, eh?)

People back then could sometimes tell where someone was from by the style of their clothing and some pieces of clothing were described as a "Hungarian" this or "Spanish" that--meaning in the style of that area. Exactly what that means, if not otherwise described or pictured, can still be a mystery. I realize all this is very general, but it's difficult to cover enough of what is very visual information in a forum like this. You have to look at a lot of art work and existing garments. Most of what we use today is based on English and American collections, but the internet has opened up the world, if you can navigate your way around other countries museum websites.

And if you can get your hands on a copy of Waugh's "Cut of Men's Clothes" 1600-1900, it would be a good starting point in defining what pieces are what.

Ok, enough of that for now. Gotta go get caffeine and practice death head buttons. It could become an obsession

[Jib]

Thanks Jendobyns! Very insightful!

Edited November 14, 2011 by Jib

[Jib]

Could we say what a Just-au-corps is not by way of description? They were not made of leather, satin, etc. They never reached the ground. They did not have collars.

[Capt. Trueblood]

Jib, what Michael and Jen said is spot-on. The Just-au-Corps, which translates as "close to the body," is what the English would simply call a coat. The styles did change from it's introduction in the late 17th C. onward and examples can be roughly dated by the cut of the coat fronts and skirts, and the style and placement of pockets, buttons, &c. Nora Waugh's book is a fantastic resource, however google-ing "18th Century Man's Coat" or something to that effect can be enlightening.

As far as lining, typically yes. The lining was the used to give structure to the coat, the foundation, so-to-speak, as well as to provide for freedom of movement and wear protection. The lining could be silk, linen, or both, depending on the wearers means and prefernces. The only coats I know of specifically mentioned as being un-lined were in the American south and were made of un-lined linen due to the summer heat and humidity.

The term "frock coat" is often erroneously applied to these garments and really didn't evolve until the latter half of the 18th. They were a simply-cut plain coat typically worn in the country, as opposed to the tailored, more fashionable suit worn in the city.

And Jen, yes DH buttons can be addictive. Try multi-coloured ones. Or if you really want twist yer noggin, basket-weave.

[PLUNDERING PYLOS PARKER]

very well said Capt Trueblood!

[jendobyns]

Capt. Trueblood,

I have a while before I get to the basket weave, but colors, and the astral type are on the short list. So is the covered button with the woven top threads that ends up looking like honeycomb. Ah, the possibilities! As long as the hands hold out!

And I can check with Neal about the unlined broadcloth. It could be that it's only waistcoats that are unlined and that the coats have a lining (I know our regimentals do!) A lining would definitely reduce wear in some areas.

[landlubbersanonymous]

Juste-au-corps, spelled many ways, is French. (?) What would this garment be called in England, among the Dutch, Italians, Spanish, or other nations? Would it always have the title Juste-au-corps.

One useful shortcut are the language links at wikipedia.com

Example. Search word "Juste-au-corps" links to English wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Justacorps

On the left column are handy links to foreign translation(s) with alternate descriptions and additional info of the item. The current ones include...

Catalan Wikipedia (National language of Andorra... northern Spain/southern France)...

http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casaca

German...

http://de.wikipedia....iki/Justaucorps

Norwegian...

http://no.wikipedia....iki/Justaucorps

Amusingly the link to the French wiki provides info on the alternate Justaucorps ... le "Léotard"

http://fr.wikipedia....iki/Justaucorps

Perhaps someone on the forum here with a working knowledge of French sarcasm can make some inquiries about this at Les Frères de la Côte??? (We don't. We'll just light the fuse here and run.)

Reference... http://lesfreresdela...taucorps-xviiie

Edited November 20, 2011 by landlubbersanonymous