powder chest

[Silver]

i am planing to build a powder chest (an explosive device used as a defense weapon against boarders), i am not sure about the type of ignition system to use. has anyone ever built one or seen one exhibited? your inputs would be greatly appreciated. i do know that there is one described in John Smith's "Seaman Grammer & Dictionary" thanks

[PoD]

I am sure in The Sea-Gunner by John Seller he describes the construction of a powder chest too. I cant find my copy at the moment though

Ok found an online reference. It's not very descriptive though

How to make Powder-Chests.

You must nail two Boards together like the ridge of a House, and prepare one Board longer and broader for the bottom: Between these three Boards put a Cartridge of Powder, then make it up like a Sea-Chest and fill it with pibble Stones, Nails, Stubbs of old Iron ; then nail on the Cover and the ends to the Deck, in such a place as you may fire the Powder underneath through a hole made to put a Pistol in : These are very useful to anoy an Enemy if they board you.

http://www.shipbrook...hapter19.html#2

Edited June 16, 2011 by PoD

[Silver]

thanks PoD, i knew there was another reference out there, but couldn't remember where it was and had spent the last day searching for it. smith talks of igniting it with a powder train, sellers a pistol through a hole. i like the pistol ignition. i'm thinking the pistol would be in the chest and would be fired using a trip wire or lanyard any thoughts?

[Dutchman]

universalium.academic.ru/175329/powder_chest

their description has it hanging OVER the side, but makes no source reference.

[PoD]

thanks PoD, i knew there was another reference out there, but couldn't remember where it was and had spent the last day searching for it. smith talks of igniting it with a powder train, sellers a pistol through a hole. i like the pistol ignition. i'm thinking the pistol would be in the chest and would be fired using a trip wire or lanyard any thoughts?

I always took it as meaning that once the chest was nailed onto the deck then a hole was cut through the underside of the deck and the bottom of the box using something like a brace (if they had them then). A pistol barrel was then poked into the hole and fired to ignite the powder. Althought the person holding the pistol would have to have a lot of faith that the chest would explode outwards and not blow up the deck above him.

The ignition techniques and the placement of the chest may have evolved over time so you'd maybe have to check the dates of the references as I believe the John Seller book was 1691 and John Smith's "Seaman Grammer & Dictionary" was 1653.

[Silver]

i apologise for taking so long to get back to this. have been doing some reserach on the subject. i found that in 1573 Samuel Zimmermann, a german military engineer, developed a type of land mine called a Fougasse. he used a snaphance or flintlock firing mechanism with trip wire or lanyard trigger. the mines were buried by the defender near the base of their fortress and on being exploded, would fire rocks or lighted granados into the attackers ranks much like a claymore or cluster bomb. i am thinking that the pistol would be placed in the chest and the phrase "in such a place as you may fire the powder underneath through a hole made to put a pistol in" means the chest would be postioned and nailed down on deck were a straight pull on a laynard could be achived from a protected position. the cartridge (i would guess about 3-4 lbs. average charge for a 5-6 lbs round shot) is placed underneath the two boards nailed together like a ridge of a house to protect it from the loading of pebbles and iron pieces into the chest. a hole big engouh for the pistol would be made in the side of the chest upon the construction of the sides, allowing the pistol to be cocked and placed into the box in the cartridge area so the barrel pointed directly at the cartridge. a lanyard would then be run into the stearn or fore castle. i could be wrong i haven't a drawing i'm just working with the mechanics and what i know about powder.

[PoD]

i apologise for taking so long to get back to this. have been doing some reserach on the subject. i found that in 1573 Samuel Zimmermann, a german military engineer, developed a type of land mine called a Fougasse. he used a snaphance or flintlock firing mechanism with trip wire or lanyard trigger. the mines were buried by the defender near the base of their fortress and on being exploded, would fire rocks or lighted granados into the attackers ranks much like a claymore or cluster bomb. i am thinking that the pistol would be placed in the chest and the phrase "in such a place as you may fire the powder underneath through a hole made to put a pistol in" means the chest would be postioned and nailed down on deck were a straight pull on a laynard could be achived from a protected position. the cartridge (i would guess about 3-4 lbs. average charge for a 5-6 lbs round shot) is placed underneath the two boards nailed together like a ridge of a house to protect it from the loading of pebbles and iron pieces into the chest. a hole big engouh for the pistol would be made in the side of the chest upon the construction of the sides, allowing the pistol to be cocked and placed into the box in the cartridge area so the barrel pointed directly at the cartridge. a lanyard would then be run into the stearn or fore castle. i could be wrong i haven't a drawing i'm just working with the mechanics and what i know about powder.

yeah i had considered that option too but thought that the loss of a pistol by putting it actually inside the chest wouldnt really be an option on a ship where it wouldnt have been easily replacable. If they had needed to ignite the chest by using the flintlock itself then I would have imagined they could have just put the mechanism into the chest rather than a whole pistol. We could definately do with a better reference.

[Silver]

true. the lost of good pistol would be a shame, but the lost of your ship and to be taken captive would also be a shame if it could have been avoided by one shot and the lost of a pistol. at the "WHYDAH" exhibt there was a concertion of gun parts you can identify a trigger guard, frizzen and what may be ramrod holders. it is said to be tools of a gunsmith's trade. there were also flintlock powder tester which resemble small pistols (eprouvettes). i think a resourceful mariner could come up with a reliable ignition system. i have found another referance it is Falconer' 1769 "Marine and Naval Dictionary" i'll post it later.

[Silver]

Falconer writes "Powder-Chests, certain small boxes, charged with powder and a quantity of old nails or splinters of iron, and fastened occasionlly on the decks and sides of a ship, in order to be discharged on an enemy who attempts to seize her by boarding. these cases are usually from 12 to 18 inches in length and about 8 to 10 in breadth, having their outer or upper-part teminating in an edge. they are nailed to several places of the quarter, the quarter-deck and bulkhead of the waist, having a train of powder which communicates with the inner apartment of the ship, so as to be fired at pleasure to annoy the enemy. they particularly used in merchent-ships, which are furnished with close-quarters to oppose the boarders. Gilkerson in Boarder AwayII says that Falconer"s "train of powder which communicates with the inner apartments of the ship" is another of his misdesciptions. he states no open powder train would ever be allowed under any circumstances aboard a wooden sailing ship, much less throught some kind of hole from the inside of the ship to the outside. also Gilkerson goes on to state that "warships were not like barns, where things were simply nailed up. no hole was made in the ship's fabric except by her carpenter or one of his mates.