Pirate Taverns

[Matthew]

Hey All,

I am doing research on colonial taverns. Does anyone have any good historical accounts of pirate activities involving taverns? Specifically, I am interested in taverns that were known to be partial to pirates. It can be anywhere from the Chesapeake to the Caribbean and involve their favorite haunts and tavern culture as well as the occasional drunken row. I have heard of a place in Savannah that was renowned for being such a place but that may be more folklore than truth. Anyway, I appreciate your help, thanks!

Regards,

Matthew Krogh aka Bambi

[Dutchman]

matthew,

A good place to start would be in Hampton as it was a seedy town which catered to "wayward sailors". In particular, Bunch of Grapes Tavern which was located in the area of the current carousel. The Hampton Hisotry Museum may be able to provide more info.

As a side, if you are in the area- www.colonialseaport.org

[Mission]

You might like to take a look at this topic as I think there were some references thrown around in there. (I'd tell you to search for 'tavern' but the search function sucks ass. Stynky, fix the search function!)

[Tartan Jack]

I have heard of a place in Savannah that was renowned for being such a place but that may be more folklore than truth. Anyway, I appreciate your help, thanks!

The one your probably thinking of is "The Pirate's House" http://www.thepirateshouse.com/

There are lots of rumors and stories about the place, but all post-dates the GAoP period. I've heard MANY argue it was period, but most of those don't even know what period the GAoP most famous pirate lived, or that most of the popularly famous activity was from a 5-8 year period in the later 17-teens. Meanwhile, Oglethrope didn't establish Savannah until the 1733. The present establishment claims to have been around since 1753 as a seaside inn, tavern, and eating establishment (all of which were oft interrelated for most of history-> "taverns" had rooms upstairs and served food as well as drink.

Last I checked . . . 1753 is well after 1722 (death of Bart Roberts) . . .

Edited March 23, 2011 by Tartan Jack

[Bos'n Cross]

Also, to better your search...try and think of it as looking for taverns which were frequented by sailors, instead of just pyrates......first and foremost , all pyrates were sailors...and only some sailors were pyrates....they would still fellowship with their fellow sailors.......one place in which you know for sure pyrates could be found drinking, would have been the taverns of Port Royal ,Jamaica....prior to the earthquake of course.... also look for accounts or activities around New Providence in the 1710s........google books is vvveeryy helpful in ffinding primary source accounts from people in period.

Edited March 23, 2011 by Bos'n Cross

[Red Maria]

Try Pirates & Privateers of the Americas by David F. Marley. I know it at least mentions the names of taverns in Port Royal. Cheap used copies can be found on Amamzon.com

[Silkie McDonough]

I don't have much information on pyrates or sailors in taverns. However being the proprietress of a pub I have researched the laws. I have found information online. If you would like I can send you the links. It was the proprietors responsibility to keep the guests under control and to not let them become rowdy. That having been said I am still awaiting the day when there is a well choreographed brawl in the "Selkie's Hyde"!

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Just about any tavern on the coast of Rhode Island is fair game for that I believe.

The economy of Rhode Island was basically driven by black-market, pirated and smuggled goods through the GAoP and for most of the colonial period and then some. Just about any sea-side tavern woud have been ripe for less than upstanding merchants and sea-salesmen.

Bo

[Dutchman]

wait.... bo, you mean my staunch protestant and quaker Rhode Island and Mass. forefathers were corrupt????? NAY, NEVER! Proof is needed!!!! oh wait, hold on...... yup there it is, whole damned book of corruption in the colonies.... nevermind.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Yup, and why do you think that Rhode Island refused to attend the Constitutional Convention, and were the last ones to finally ratify the Constitution?

I always liked them yankees! Always Rebels in the midst of conformity. The Puritans kicked out all their rebels and sent them to Rhode island, and I was gonna say the name of the first one that chartered the colony but had a suden brain-fart and lost it right off the tip of my fingers. Roger Williams or something or other.

Bo

[Bos'n Cross]

you wanna hear about rhode island corruption....you should read some of ned wards papers....darn yankees... they just keep acting like that for all time....lol....and lady McDonough.......i promise.....i shall soon beat the crap out of someone in your establishment!

[Dutchman]

ummm, this coming from the man who ran out of camp screaming like a little school girl "they're coming for me, hide me!"

and now back to the topic...

here is a link to colonial williamsburgs coffee house. while not a tavern, still worth taking a peek at for ideas of the time.

http://www.history.org/almanack/places/hb/hbcoffee.cfm

edit* correction on the timeline. ok so it has nothing to do with taverns or piracy, still a darned neat link.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Well, if ever I am able to make it out there, I will volunteer to let bos'n beat the crap outta me. I bet we could get people to pay good coin to watch that, and donate it to a good cause too! In fact, I'll bet we could sell tickets for people to see that with my reputation, who wouldn't wanna see me get the crap beat outta me!?!

pirates, taverns, brawls.. it's all good.

OK, back to the Tavern thread now.

Bo

Edited March 24, 2011 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co.

[MarkG]

I have heard of a place in Savannah that was renowned for being such a place but that may be more folklore than truth. Anyway, I appreciate your help, thanks!

The one your probably thinking of is "The Pirate's House" http://www.thepirateshouse.com/

There are lots of rumors and stories about the place, but all post-dates the GAoP period. I've heard MANY argue it was period, but most of those don't even know what period the GAoP most famous pirate lived, or that most of the popularly famous activity was from a 5-8 year period in the later 17-teens. Meanwhile, Oglethrope didn't establish Savannah until the 1733. The present establishment claims to have been around since 1753 as a seaside inn, tavern, and eating establishment (all of which were oft interrelated for most of history-> "taverns" had rooms upstairs and served food as well as drink.

Last I checked . . . 1753 is well after 1722 (death of Bart Roberts) . . .

They tell you that the Pirate House is the oldest building in Savannah and haunted by numerous pirates including Captain Flint from Treasure Island. Actually, the oldest part of the place was a brick gardener's shed and Savannah was founded well after the GAoP. It is a nice place to eat but expensive.

[LookingGlass]

Not a primary source, but perhaps what you're looking for.

http://www.ushistory...street_dock.htm

Dock Street

From the Evening Bulletin, January 27, 1919

BY PENN (WILLIAM PERRINE).

"In the early days of the city, when Captain Kidd and other freebooters in the West Indies and along the American coast were well known, it was not uncommon for those of them who were not under the ban of the law to make their appearance on the river-front when seeking diversion. King Street, which afterward became Water Street, and the vicinity of Dock Street, were full of hospitable taverns and coffee houses for seafaring men. It was said that one of the most famous of pirates, the enterprising and fearless Teach, known everywhere as "Blackbeard' and not yet forgotten as such, was at times a familiar figure in these resorts, and, therefore almost undoubtedly he was also a denizen of the Blue Anchor."

Edited March 24, 2011 by LookingGlass

[Tartan Jack]

I have heard of a place in Savannah that was renowned for being such a place but that may be more folklore than truth. Anyway, I appreciate your help, thanks!

The one your probably thinking of is "The Pirate's House" http://www.thepirateshouse.com/

There are lots of rumors and stories about the place, but all post-dates the GAoP period. I've heard MANY argue it was period, but most of those don't even know what period the GAoP most famous pirate lived, or that most of the popularly famous activity was from a 5-8 year period in the later 17-teens. Meanwhile, Oglethrope didn't establish Savannah until the 1733. The present establishment claims to have been around since 1753 as a seaside inn, tavern, and eating establishment (all of which were oft interrelated for most of history-> "taverns" had rooms upstairs and served food as well as drink.

Last I checked . . . 1753 is well after 1722 (death of Bart Roberts) . . .

They tell you that the Pirate House is the oldest building in Savannah and haunted by numerous pirates including Captain Flint from Treasure Island. Actually, the oldest part of the place was a brick gardener's shed and Savannah was founded well after the GAoP. It is a nice place to eat but expensive.

Yep.

[jendobyns]

Have you checked the book "Pirates on the Chesapeake" ? My copy never came back from a loan, so I can't check it, but if you can get hold of a copy, it might prove useful.

Hey All,

I am doing research on colonial taverns. Does anyone have any good historical accounts of pirate activities involving taverns? Specifically, I am interested in taverns that were known to be partial to pirates. It can be anywhere from the Chesapeake to the Caribbean and involve their favorite haunts and tavern culture as well as the occasional drunken row. I have heard of a place in Savannah that was renowned for being such a place but that may be more folklore than truth. Anyway, I appreciate your help, thanks!

Regards,

Matthew Krogh aka Bambi

[Capt. Sterling]

ummm, this coming from the man who ran out of camp screaming like a little school girl "they're coming for me, hide me!"

Aye damn good thing, THEYcouldn't see...snigger...Ye had the Devil's Nightmare howling...

and now back to the topic...

here is a link to colonial williamsburgs coffee house. while not a tavern, still worth taking a peek at for ideas of the time.

http://www.history.org/almanack/places/hb/hbcoffee.cfm

edit* correction on the timeline. ok so it has nothing to do with taverns or piracy, still a darned neat link.

WHILST ye are looking through the Williamsburg coffee house link, continue searching through their archives and ye'll find their input on taverns as well...

Edited March 25, 2011 by Capt. Sterling

[landlubbersanonymous]

Try Pirates & Privateers of the Americas by David F. Marley. I know it at least mentions the names of taverns in Port Royal. Cheap used copies can be found on Amamzon.com

New book out by Marley. We can't vouch for its accuracy as we don't have a copy.

If he wants a review, he'll have to send us a complimentary one via USPS. (Give it up David... we know you follow this board.)

Daily Life of Pirates

ISBN 0313395632, 9780313395635

http://books.google....=gbs_navlinks_s

[Mission]

New book out by Marley. We can't vouch for its accuracy as we don't have a copy.

...

Daily Life of Pirates

ISBN 0313395632, 9780313395635

http://books.google....=gbs_navlinks_s

It looks interesting (and well researched based on my skim through the Bib), but $58 is a crazy price for such a thing.

[Fox]

_{I've had a quick scan through that book. It doesn't look bad, but I picked up a few debateable points in the few pages I really read properly. My biggest concern with it is that, like so many books of its kind, it uses the pirate label to cover research which is predominantly about buccaneers. Looking through the primary sources in the bibliography, I see Atkins, Ashton, and Johnson, and a mass of stuff about buccaneers. He didn't even, apparently, use Snelgrave's book, which is filled with juicy details of daily life and is readily available, let alone take the time to find and translate du Buquoy's account, which is hard to locate and in French, but contains as many good details as Snelgrave. Lesser known pirate-captive accounts are also ignored. There is no sign of any archival research, which means a massive body of evidence that would have provided some really interesting material has been overlooked.}

_{And I don't like his definition of "Jolly Roger" in the glossary. I can forgive him connecting it with "jolie rouge", but he says it's a Victorian term when it appears in numerous sources from 1719 onwards.}

[Hawkyns]

Thanks, Ed. I wondered about the book, but like Mission, wasn't impressed with the $58 price tag. Sounds like one I'll wait until it shows up on the remainder table.

Hawkyns

[Swashbuckler 1700]

_{I've had a quick scan through that book. It doesn't look bad, but I picked up a few debateable points in the few pages I really read properly. My biggest concern with it is that, like so many books of its kind, it uses the pirate label to cover research which is predominantly about buccaneers. Looking through the primary sources in the bibliography, I see Atkins, Ashton, and Johnson, and a mass of stuff about buccaneers. He didn't even, apparently, use Snelgrave's book, which is filled with juicy details of daily life and is readily available, let alone take the time to find and translate du Buquoy's account, which is hard to locate and in French, but contains as many good details as Snelgrave. Lesser known pirate-captive accounts are also ignored. There is no sign of any archival research, which means a massive body of evidence that would have provided some really interesting material has been overlooked.}

_{And I don't like his definition of "Jolly Roger" in the glossary. I can forgive him connecting it with "jolie rouge", but he says it's a Victorian term when it appears in numerous sources from 1719 onwards.}

(sorry bit offtopic)This brings me mind that problem that really often book makers e.g puts buccaneers and pirates together and then says what pirates were like... often Gaop is said to period 1650-1730 and books say like that the pirates in mid 17th century were same group whith pirates of 1700s.. and it is not true since there is many differences between buccaneers and pirates...

[Swashbuckler 1700]

I mean that often buccaneers and pirates are put together in books etc. then they just say what pirates did and you cannot be sure did they mean buccaneers or pirates...

[Mission]

During my historical pirate surgeon presentation, I spend the first few minutes explaining the GAoP and the differences between the buccaneers and the pirates of the Caribbean. I even use photos to distinguish between the two.