Proper crew edicit....

[Bos'n Cross]

SSSSSooooooo in my recent researching, i have run into an interesting question.......how did one act aboard ship? More clearly, how did one treat others aboard ship. What did you do when an officer spoke to you........ what did you do when the captain spoke to you, how bad was it to talk back to your superiors? How did officers address seamen......... Oh...this is on RN ships, privateers, and merchantmen...not those no good rule breaking pirates..........not asking for exact answers, just some guidance perhaps on where to look..............

Yours & co.

Isrl. Cross

[Dutchman]

all in favor of throwing cross over say aye.

[Captain Jim]

For even thinking about answering back to your captain, you shall be whipped 20 lashes at the main come the dawn, there to remain the day!

Oh, I forgot: pyrate! So, what's on yer mind, shipmate?

I shall forgo a detailed answer so as to let Professor Foxe and Co. have the floor, but in my reading it depended a lot on the individual captain, but in the main even the slightest breach of protocol called for severe punishment.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Captain Jim

[Cannibal Chrispy]

Dont throw him over, he is my best seller!

[sutlerjon]

I think he's just lookin' for what he has to do to get a good floggin'.

Aye, Mr Cross go ahead an' talk back to your Cap'n and any other person of 'igher rank than thee. See what 'appens.

I'm reminded of an ancient "bit" by that wonderful duo Cheech & Chong,

Oops this is "Twill" I better stop here.

Mr.Cross, one would behave in a proper military manner, always observing the proper protocol and treating your superiors with the respect they deserve.

[Silkie McDonough]

Mr.Cross, one would behave in a proper military manner, always observing the proper protocol and treating your superiors with the respect they deserve.[/size][/font]

Or with the respect they don't deserve.

[sutlerjon]

Yes, you are correct Silkie.

...... With the respect their position affords ..... or, you should respect the "position" if not the "positioned".

"You, sir, are not a "superior" officer, merely a higher ranking one."

Dang, I still wish there were a font for sarcasm.

[Bright]

Capt.Cross yea might gander at Naval Customs,Traditions and Usage By Vice Admiral Leland P.Lovette published by Naval Institute Press, Annapolis Maryland

Library of Congress Catalogue Card Number 59-11628

ISBN 0-87021-411-X

[Fox]

Short answer or long?

Short answer: there's some truth in the formality observed on ships, but it probably wasn't quite as rigid as the Victorians would have us believe. Respecting officers was probably much greater than we give credit for today, for the simple reason that most officers did deserve it. After 1677 naval lieutenants were required to pass an exam and spend a minimum of three years at sea before they could get their commissions, thus however genteel an officer may have been all lieutenants and captains must have been basically competent at least. Petty officers and officers on merchantmen were, on the whole, appointed because of their skill and experience. In practice it varied from ship to ship, and the situation on a naval first rate with nearly 100 officers of various degrees was probably considerably different to a small merchantman with two officers and half a dozen hands.

Experience does not preclude an officer from being an ass of course.

Off the top of my head you might find some useful stuff in the privateering accounts of Woodes Rogers, Edward Cooke, George Shelvocke, and William Betagh, or in the naval account of Henry Teonge. For merchantmen it might be worth looking at Jack Cremer, Edward Barlow, and Edward Coxere (the first is impossible to find, the second is hideously expensive, and the third is a bit too early). There's probably some good stuff in the High Court of Admiralty papers, but they haven't been published...

The long answer will take much longer.

[Bos'n Cross]

Many thanks to sirs bright and fox for helping instead of heckling...........as for the rest of you, remember when the luna is done, and you come aboard to marvel in its glory...just remember that i know what is hanging from where....and from which pin to cast off a topping lift.......

..............as for period accounts....which are my favorite sources, i have woods rogers and Henry Teonge's...though the latter's is the one iv looked at the least...this will be remedied..........i shall away and look for the others........thank yousir, for the names! On a slight side note....dear lord id love to have Edward Barlow's journal...but alas, i have not $400 dollars for the purchase.....for shame to google e-books for not scanning it!....yet.........

[Bos'n Cross]

Just came across this in Edward Wards 1682 and 1699 journey to new england....tis a lovely example of how to act about the captain:

Facetious Ignorance is an excellent Tallent to win the Captains Favor. Reason at Sea, without the Rules of Navigation, is as dangerous to be talk'd as treason: For nothing galls the Ambition of Commander more, Than to hear any Body on Board seem Wiser then himself.

he continues humorously in this manor for another paragraph before changing subject......i think it quite clear that he may not have had the best opinion of the ships master........

[LadyBarbossa]

::: waves hand in motion to above statements::: Like they said, but depends upon the attitude of the Officers and the Captain I suppose.

~lady B

[Jack Roberts]

Master Cross would you mind emailing your materials? I would love to take a read.

[Bos'n Cross]

look in google e-books for anything by edward ward, also search for the journal of Henry Teonage whilst there.......i much enjoy wards reading...though he is a cynic....like myself lolol

[Bright]

Look here http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/B_S_M/Preface.html

[MarkG]

SSSSSooooooo in my recent researching, i have run into an interesting question.......how did one act aboard ship? More clearly, how did one treat others aboard ship. What did you do when an officer spoke to you........ what did you do when the captain spoke to you, how bad was it to talk back to your superiors? How did officers address seamen......... Oh...this is on RN ships, privateers, and merchantmen...not those no good rule breaking pirates..........not asking for exact answers, just some guidance perhaps on where to look..............

Yours & co.

Isrl. Cross

Question - do you mean on a regular ship or on a pirate ship? Pirate crews were a collection of equals where the officers could be voted out of office if the crew didn't like them.

Captain Kidd's crew is an interesting case. Officially he was a pirate hunter but his crew was continually mutinous. One crewman insulted Kidd for refusing to attack a Dutch ship so Kidd hit him with a bucket. He later claimed that he hadn't realized that it was an iron bound bucket. The crewman died from the injury, contributing a charge of murder to Kidd and a verse to the song about him

"I murdered William Moore and I left him in his gore..."

Anyway, it shows that crewmen felt comfortable talking back to the captain.

[Silkie McDonough]

Cool! I am usually the one who misses the details. hehe ...RN Mark

...Oh...this is on RN ships, privateers, and merchantmen...not those no good rule breaking pirates

Question - do you mean on a regular ship or on a pirate ship? ...

[Guest]

Yeah............I know alotta yew don't care much fer Capt.Gary of the Royaliste...

But...If I was ter sail under anyone...... it would be him....

yeah... a right out bastard.... but he knows his ... well..... stuff...

[Bos'n Cross]

indeed mark, i mean everything BUT pirates...EEVVEERRYYOOONNEE wants to know how pirates behaved, but i want to know what the rest of the "law abiding" seamen were like when onboard......which in search of, iv discovered that sailors journals are the way to go!