Guns in stupid Canada

[CharityRackham]

First off.. Yes.. I have had to deal with such things and not for BCRF but back in Ontario and on productions throughout North America. Hell.. Before moving from Toronto to Vancouver I had to give up my guns. Just didn't want to deal with the changes in paperwork. One had seized anyway. I deal with and have dealt with plenty of types of weapons and if you look at the laws regarding such things you will see similarities as well as differences between the way the law looks at weapons as a whole.

Flintlocks? Yes. Flat pans? Yes. Canons? Yes. Riffles? Yes. (worked with, taken apart, shot and put back together). All a number of years ago and on and off in production for the last 85% of my 33 year career.... But... yes... Even recently I've been working with three different groups here in BC who handle such things as black powder on a hobby and professional level with relationships developing for use of such weapons here for production, parades, events and the like so... Yes. I've actually learned even more than I already knew from these wonderful people.

Me personally bringing back and forth over the border such things as flintlocks? Nope. Done the paperwork for it? Yes. Is the replica cap guns considered under the same laws of going back and forth over the border? Yes. By law they are considered weapons and must be handled in a legal manner. Not only because of the way they look but also because there is powder in the caps and that can trigger the scent dogs.

Mentions of such things you say this is not about? Hmm... See jendobyns. I see no snapping at that one. Just at me. Reference to replicas in your own post and compliment to James... See above.. Conflicts with your disgust that I mention replicas. I honestly don't get it.

Cross bows as reference and dealing with? Yes. Reasons I don't bother to have one. Subject relationship? To me.. Plenty. Weapons are handled differently yet seem to have similar rules, in some cases, and some places.. To me that leaves a person more educated and has a greater chance of learning the language of whomever the local law is. Actual relationship to this post? Something only Beowoulf can decide. Not us.

Registration and ownership has a ton to do with use and source. From personal experience? Yes.

Oh. Gun competition and flintlocks in Aldergrove?... Yes... And many other types of guns and weapons. It was a historical gun shot competition. It ran two years. One year - Wild West shoot out. Second year - History of weapons and use. Did I attend? No. Had a production (1 year here and 1 year in the US) to take care of.

Is this unnecessary? Yes. The whole point of people asking questions on a public form is to get as many opinions as they can in order to make an educated decision. IF they doubt someone, question someone, don't like someone, love someone, blindly trust someone or simply want to try it all... Their choice. Not ours. You have not given bad advice, nor have I (and neither one of us has said anything drasticly different then anyone else on here) so this is really not worth it. I am sure if Beowoulf wants to tell me to bugger off he will or he will be polite and just ignore me (or anyone else) and use the form like it is designed to be used.. Take what you need and get on with your life as you thank those who posted (all) and decide who you'd like to PM in order to chat with.

I've said it before.. No biggie. Don't get why it is one to you.

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Because the original questions had to deal with Flintlock pistols - which you still haven't referenced.

You see the original question had to do with flintlock PISTOLS and the restrictions on owning/firing them

in Canada. They are classified as restricted weapons- as handguns here in Canada. Which is regulated by the federal government and as such applies across Canada.

We are trying to get information relating to owning/firing PISTOLS.Flintlock pistols.

This is in the forum of Cascabels Lock Stock and Barrel..it is specifically about black powder weapons, not weapons in general.

So the more you go on and on about replicas and whatnot...it doesn't help answer any questions we might have.

Other people have answered about having pistols..Michael for example. James posted the actual regulations about PISTOLS.Oh and that replica flintlock longguns which FIRE (as long as they do not use percussion caps) are classified the same as antique weapons. Which was part of the original discussion and a clarification. You are talking about non firing replicas, and cap guns which have no bearing here.

Jendobyns talked about bringing them over the border, and talked about black powder restrictions and how they could be handled.This is all relevent.

I have shared the information I found out regarding PISTOLS.

You have essentially gone on and on, quoted no official regulations, and not referenced anything in the discussion. Gone way off topic about swords and crossbows and yadda yadda...and not answered any questions I asked regarding pistols in my last post.

Which is why I am asking- do you have anything constructive, that might actually help us? Do you have any real personal knowledge that might enlighten us about owning flintlock PISTOLS.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Gunpowder Gertie

[CharityRackham]

Whoa. I really don't get your anger towards me. Honestly. The only person who can decide what they want out of the info given is the person who started this conversation.

I have discussed black powder. I have discussed the different kinds of licencing that isn't listed in the standard gun info available easily on the net and attempted to show him a number of options.

I have plenty of experience with the subject and various weapons.

I did answer your questions but that never seems to make you happy.

I read the postings already here and added based on the replies already given as well the pattern of questions and discussions here in this subject.

I know where he can probably find folks in Quebec who can possibly help him find what he needs. Up to HIM if he follows or asks for that. Martin is full union so we have access to databases of people who use black powder and weapons for production. So what if it is production. Discussions from others seemed to indicate that this discussion could go that way as production seem to know how to handle this.

I have NOT received anything from Beowoulf stating to stop.

I see HIS ID at the top of this particular discussion not you.

I have been told by many that you seem to be on the attack when it comes to me. Folks have informed me that you have insulted me and my crew members for anything you can make up, find or exaggerate. I have continued to take deep breaths and continue on. I Have never slagged you, insulted you or attacked you. I have shown discomfort and done my best to give you space, but when you seem to be following me and taking whatever opening you can to do this... It's tough to give you space and let you just be. Now that folks are sending me emails giving me sympathy for your existence, it just gets harder. We don't need this energy in public and the fact that folks are contacting me with sympathy concerns me. It means it is in public.

So please. I ask again... Please post your replies and I will post mine and those who are here for advice will take form the post what they will. They are not our children nor are we responsible for them. If you want to get angry at me, send me a message and get angry at me. Not drag it out to them. I've already asked that of you and you won't.

I am sorry Beowoulf, that this is happening on your post. In all honesty, if you would like to tell me to bugger off or would like to contact me directly, then I am still open to that.

Thank you to everyone for your patience on this. I can only hope that this settles down soon.

[hurricane]

Deleted.

Edited January 3, 2011 by hurricane

[Beowoulf]

Wow! My head is spinning! Man this is complicated...

Here's what I want to do .. tho I am sure there will be a variation or 30 that I did not account for...

I live in Quebec (pronounced as QWEE-bec by us Mainers).

I want to own black powder weapons of SOME sort that go BANG!!!!!!! (and I DO mean BANG!!!!!!!!!!) - Flintlock pistols, blunderbusses, rifles, CANNONS (not real big cannons as transportation would be an issue - not to mention cost)

I want to SHOOT these weapons - at very least at pirate events (including the PC ones and the fantasy ones). FTPI & its bastard sister PiP would be a prime examples. (Or is it PiP and ITS bastard sister?? LOLOL)

Qweebec is WAY too stupid to have anything like this, so Ontario is more likely for Canadian events.

These weapons would need to cross the Canadian/American border regularly.

Obviously, I need to transport them freely.

I'm not really interested in bullets or cannon balls (at this point ... I just want loud BANGS!!!) Ok .. MAYbe tennis balls....

I want to buy black powder.

I would love to go out to a BIG farm I know and shoot off a cannon til it glowed red!

(Relax, dear Crudbeard, I am joking about the glowing red part! I don't want to BLOW MY HEAD OFF! LOLOL)

From what I have found, antique pistols cost three and four (and more) thousands of dollars apiece!! I like BANGS, but not THAT much!

Btw, how do they know if it is a GEN-YOU-WHINE antique, anyway?? Seems it would take a nutcase like Crudbeard to know that!!! (Sorry, Tom! Couldn't resist!)

Ok, what did I leave out?

Edited January 3, 2011 by Beowoulf

[hurricane]

Deleted.

[Beowoulf]

Hurricaine! You shouldn't have deleted your post! I thot it was a good point!

[CharityRackham]

I can not help with the cost. My experiences are in production so they are purchased by the productions.

How they know what is GEN-YOU-WHINE is also out of my range. The local police at the shoot or event would know. Prop shops hire folks who would have the licencing in place.

When it comes to the licence and what your area considers appropriate is up to the local police (not always the RCMP - when it comes to Quebec).

If you are shooting (no projectiles) here in BC at an event, show or production and are using black powder, then you are required to have a fireworks demonstration license as it is considered a presentation weapon in a public place. There are a few exceptions but they are area based and, once more, only your 'local' can help with that. If you PM me your actual area I will go down the chart of 'local union reps' and you can contact them as ask if they are aware of variations or production permits that could allow you to do what you need to. When firing in other provinces and/or States it will be based on the final location NOT where you are coming from. Make sure you check with the local law before agreeing to or obligating to bringing and/or firing your weapons. In order to decrease paperwork, we have chosen to use fairly accurate looking (cheaper and in cost range as well) replicas with caps as they make a 'Bang' which is acceptable at events and such, and easier on the legals. Seeing what goes on with a larger production... It made sense to US. It may not work for you but the black powder/fireworks license may apply to you where you are.

When crossing the border with ANY THING that is considered a weapon it must not be in reach of any passenger or driver so that the police are never nervous if they have to look in your vehicle or talk to you in person. Anything that has a registration must have a copy of the registration/permit with the weapon. It is recommended that you carry a second copy in your luggage.

If you go into a police station and talk it out with the law closest to you, you will get a better result then reading the webpages. We do all the time. You can even get a different result from officer to officer... Again... That has happened to me... But at least you know what is expected there.

Looks like jendobvns knows a group that has it figured out and they are physically closer than others here. I highly recommend you connect with her folks. I have posted elsewhere on this board a list of Canadian pirate events. If you would like, check out my content on my profile and I think it was in the landlocked or something similar... If I can free up some spare time I'd be happy to look for it but a good start would be the piratefest in Milton Ontario as many of their group have been doing this sort of thing for quite some time and are nearer to you then we are. Also check with the closest historical site. If anyone would know, they would.

That's the basics of what I can give you.

Edited January 3, 2011 by CharityRackham

[hurricane]

Beowoulf,

Sorry, didn't want to get caught in the Estrogen Crossfire here. I'm glad you read what I said. I think it's the best way to go. Opinions are like you know what... everybody's got one. :)

[Gunpowder Gertie]

The only one at this time making a personal attack is you. I have only asked that you keep on topic, and help us.

I would like to know of the many who have said that I have slagged you. please provide information since that has not happened.

The only one making up things right now seem to be you. Please stop this.

This was supposed to be about us trying to to navigate the laws of Canada regarding flintlock pistols.

[CharityRackham]

Thank you Hurricane. And you are right. Everyone has one.

I would have loved to have seen your advice in case it is needed in the future by others but I understand why you held it back. I must apoligise for my part in this. I have asked a moderator to advise me on this. IF both of us get kicked off the board then so be it. I think it would be great if you posted the advice here, so it is here for others to see and use.

Gertie.. I am not handing you names. They have confided in me. It was a mistake for me to even mention it. If you want to believe what you need to in order to continue then that's cool. We all do.

I will not make others the next target. But I have asked you to stop and you have not.

For the sake of Beowoulf and his inquiry please stick to his most recent post he has made and let this go. Allow a full grown adult like Beowoulf make up his own mind.

Thanks to all.

[Beowoulf]

"... full grown adult like Beowoulf ..." HAHAHAHAHAHA you don't know me very well, do you! ;-)

[hurricane]

Thank you Hurricane. And you are right. Everyone has one.

I would have loved to have seen your advice in case it is needed in the future by others but I understand why you held it back. I must apoligise for my part in this. I have asked a moderator to advise me on this. IF both of us get kicked off the board then so be it. I think it would be great if you posted the advice here, so it is here for others to see and use.

Gertie.. I am not handing you names. They have confided in me. It was a mistake for me to even mention it. If you want to believe what you need to in order to continue then that's cool. We all do.

I will not make others the next target. But I have asked you to stop and you have not.

For the sake of Beowoulf and his inquiry please stick to his most recent post he has made and let this go. Allow a full grown adult like Beowoulf make up his own mind.

Thanks to all.

No worries. This won't get you kicked off. If that were the case, they would have kicked me off years ago for some of the things I said. (Everyone reading this collectively nods their head).

Basically, my only advice was to ask the local gendarmes about the regulations. Even in the U.S. federal laws classifies original and reproduction weapons as antiques. However, not all local municipalities allow you to carry them around freely, have unfettered access to black powder or fire live rounds. So, it's best to ask, get a name and number in case you run into trouble and realize that different rules apply in different locales, even here in the Wild West of North America. Hell, it's even legal to shoot someone in Florida if you feel threatened on a public street. But that is another topic for another time and another board.

And Beowoulf, no she don't!

Edited January 3, 2011 by hurricane

[CharityRackham]

No.. I don't...

Sorry... Didn't mean to call you names.

[CharityRackham]

"... full grown adult like Beowoulf ..." HAHAHAHAHAHA you don't know me very well, do you! ;-)

No.. I don't...

Sorry... Didn't mean to call you names.

[Cannibal Chrispy]

If anyone gets thrown off, (or tries to stop this) I shall personally spearhead an upheaval.... of sorts. Laughs, now where were we? Oh yea round 5.....

DING!

Edited January 3, 2011 by Chrispy

[Harry Flint]

Hello all! I've been watching this forum a bit over the past couple of days, and would like to add some alternative ideas that could help you, Master Beowulf. Having worked in the film industry for 15 years, and taken part in many productions and events, I've run across alternatives to black powder. Mostly useful for cannons (but could be adapted for hand-guns as well), calcium carbonate, when mixed with water forms acetylene gas. There are a number of groups out here in BC who use it at parades and the like. It won't produce quite the smokey blast that gunpowder can, but a most satisfying pop. Once you've sorted out the actual gun regulations, you may want to look into this as a less restricted alternative to black powder (you can still purchase little toy cannons on the internet with calcium carbonate to fire them with). To see the kind of nice bang and fireball you can get with acetylene, you can view our exploding gingerbread house from last year.

We did the video for a Discovery Channel 15th anniversary submission, and did it in Mythbusters style. If you don't want to watch the whole video, go to about 5 minutes in where I fill the gingerbread house with acetylene, and watch from there. We used an acetylene tank, but calcium carbonate works just as well. A model rocket igniter triggers our blast, but some groups use a match or wick to the touch-hole, or a modified spark plug arrangement. You could also look into some local farm or orchard suppliers, they sometimes sell bird deterrant cannons, which fire a loud boom every few minutes to scare birds away from the crops. They may be propane powered (more readily available and somewhat safer), but could probably be modified to suit a pirate cannon.

REMEMBER! This is very explosive stuff (like black powder isn't...), so use carefully, and always outdoors. Enjoy!

Edited January 3, 2011 by Harry Flint

[Quartermaster James]

Well, I typed up a thoughtful point-by-point reply to Beowoulf's questions but when I went to post it I received an error message saying that I had to enter a post.

[Quartermaster James]

test

[Quartermaster James]

Okay, we'll take this point by point...

I want to own black powder weapons of SOME sort that go <b>BANG</b>!!!!!!! (and I DO mean <b>BANG</b>!!!!!!!!!!) - Flintlock pistols, blunderbusses, rifles, CANNONS (not <i>real </i>big cannons as transportation would be an issue - not to mention cost)

Flintlock pistols of modern manufacture are restricted weapons.

You will need either a POL (Possession Only License) or a PAL (Possession and Acquisition License) to own one.

Additionally, the individual gun will need to be registered.

A verifiable antique pistol is exempt from the licensing and registration requirement.

Additionally, flintlock long-guns of modern manufacture are exempt from the licensing and registration requirement.

What makes a long-gun? Strangely, modern regulations make no comment specific to blunderbusses .

What they do tell us is that "firearms which can be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660mm (26 inches)" fall into the "restricted" class (i.e.: license and registration required). http://www.panda.com...uns/#restricted

There are further definitions that would put s short gun into the prohibited class save that they apply to altered guns and not firearms manufactured with short barrels. See: http://www.panda.com/canadaguns/#prohibited

I want to SHOOT these weapons - at very least at pirate events (including the PC ones and the fantasy ones).

<span style="font-size: 13.5pt;" book="" antiqua="" ;="">Now, to my mind SHOOT=live fire. I understand from your subsequent comment, however, that your main intention is to fire blank loads.

This notwithstanding, if your gun <i>can </i>fire live ammunition it is a firearm and is regulated as such.

I have no information to offer regarding noise-making replica guns or theatrical props.

Whether you will be allowed to fire blank loads at any given event is going to be subject to the rules of that event, municipal regulations, etc.</span>

These weapons would need to cross the Canadian/American border regularly.

Obviously, I need to transport them freely.

Not a problem for non-restricted weapons, such as a flintlock long-gun.

Restricted weapons, such as a modern flintlock pistol, require an Authorization To Transport. See: http://www.panda.com/canadaguns/#att

FWIW: it wouldn't hurt to be proactive and remove the lock when transporting either class of gun. This would also best protect the lock during a long trip.

I'm not really interested in bullets or cannon balls (at this point ... I just want loud <b>BANGS</b>!!!)

Duly noted.

I want to buy black powder.

That too should not be a problem.

It might make things easier during border crossings to not try to carry BP with you, but to arrange for some to be available to you at the event.

From what I have found, antique pistols cost three and four (and more) thousands of dollars apiece!! I like <b>BANGS</b>, but not THAT much!

To reiterate: you only need a verifiable antique if you are trying to avoid licensing and registration requirements.

That's all I really have on this subject save to suggest you contact a black powder club in your area for more "hands on" information.

Y.M.H.S.

QMJ

[Gunpowder Gertie]

Thanks James

[Quartermaster James]

Well, I don't know what's going on with that message.

I cleaned it up as best I could.

Kinda strange though: the parts that aren't fixed, it wont let me fix. I keep getting the message that I have to enter a post.

Mind you, I've got the post open for editing and it gives me this!

Couldn't even add this one last line:

There's no need to re-invent the wheel; there are plenty of reenactors in Canada.