Salmagundi

[Karadimos]

Salmagundi is an old recipe that came to be known as a pirate meal.

• "Cut cold roast chicken or other meats into slices. Mix with minced tarragon and an onion. Mix all together with capers, olives, samphire, broombuds, mushrooms, oysters, lemon, orange, raisins, almonds, blue figs, Virginia potatoes, peas and red and white currants. Garnish with sliced oranges and lemons. Cover with oil and vinegar, beaten together." (from The Good Huswives Treasure, Robert May, 1588-1660)
• "A mixture of minced veal, chicken or turkey, anchovies or pickled herring, and onions, all chopped together and served with lemon juice and oil."
• Salmagundi is also purportedly a meal served on pirate ships. It is a stew of anything the cook had on hand, usually consisting of chopped meat, anchovies, eggs, and onions, often arranged in rows on lettuce and served with vinegar and oil, and spiced with anything available. The following is taken from a reprint of "Mrs. Hill's New Cook Book", originally published in 1867 and republished by Applewood Books of Bedford, Massachusetts.

"Boil two calf's feet; take the feet out when done; reduce the broth to a quart. The feet may be fried and used, first removing the bones. Let the broth become cold in an earthen vessel; scrape off all the grease; wipe the top of the jelly with a coarse towel; put the cake of jelly into a kettle lined with tin or porcelain; season it with two lemons cut up (removing the seed), fine blades of mace, a stick of cinnamon, pepper (white pepper is best), and salt to taste. Beat to a froth the whites of six eggs; stir these to the jelly just as it melts; it must then be left to clarify and not stirred again. When it simmers long enough to look clear at the sides, strain it through a flannel bag before the fire; do not squeeze the bag. Suspend it by running a stick through a loop made by tying the bag; rest each end of the stick upon a chair, and throw a table-cloth over all to keep out the dust. If the jelly does not run through clear the first time, pour it through the jelly-bag again. Set this aside. Prepare the meat and seasoning for the pie. Put into a stew-pan slices of pickled pork, using a piece of pork four inches square; if it is very salt[y] lay it an hour in tepid water. Cut up two young, tender chickens--a terrapin, if it is convenient--two or three young squirrels, half a dozen birds or squabs. Stew them gently, cutting up and adding a few sprigs of parsley. Roll into half a pound of butter two tablespoonfuls of flour; add this to the stew until the meat is nearly done. Line a fire-proof dish, or two fire-proof dishes (this quantity of stew will fill two common-sized or quart dishes;) with good pastry; mix the different kinds of meats; put in Irish potato dumplings; season to taste; pour in the gravy and bake. When done, remove the upper crust when the pie is cold and pack in the jelly, heaping the jelly in the middle. Return the crust and serve cold or hot. The jelly will prevent them become too dry. They are good Christmas pies and will keep several days. Very little gravy should be used, and that rich. Should there be too much, leave the stew-pan open until reduced sufficiently. This kind of pie keeps well if made in deep plates, and by some is preferred to those baked in deep moulds."

I've found some other recipes on the internet as well. They're all different!

• http://www.bigoven.com/130402-Salmagundi-recipe.html
• http://www.celtnet.org.uk/recipes/elizabethan/fetch-recipe.php?rid=eliz-salmagundi
• http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/salmagundi
• http://www.recipe-collection.co.uk/Salmagundi/14771.html
• http://www.cookadvice.com/recipes/salmagundi-14633-recipe.htm
• http://www.allbritishfood.com/salmagundi.php

[jendobyns]

Hi,

Could you please provide the source of the quoted period recipe? Thanks!

Mistress (Jen) Dobyns

Salmagundi is an old recipe that came to be known as a pirate meal.

• "Cut cold roast chicken or other meats into slices. Mix with minced tarragon and an onion. Mix all together with capers, olives, samphire, broombuds, mushrooms, oysters, lemon, orange, raisins, almonds, blue figs, Virginia potatoes, peas and red and white currants. Garnish with sliced oranges and lemons. Cover with oil and vinegar, beaten together." (from The Good Huswives Treasure, Robert May, 1588-1660)
• "A mixture of minced veal, chicken or turkey, anchovies or pickled herring, and onions, all chopped together and served with lemon juice and oil."
• Salmagundi is also purportedly a meal served on pirate ships. It is a stew of anything the cook had on hand, usually consisting of chopped meat, anchovies, eggs, and onions, often arranged in rows on lettuce and served with vinegar and oil, and spiced with anything available. The following is taken from a reprint of "Mrs. Hill's New Cook Book", originally published in 1867 and republished by Applewood Books of Bedford, Massachusetts.

"Boil two calf's feet; take the feet out when done; reduce the broth to a quart. The feet may be fried and used, first removing the bones. Let the broth become cold in an earthen vessel; scrape off all the grease; wipe the top of the jelly with a coarse towel; put the cake of jelly into a kettle lined with tin or porcelain; season it with two lemons cut up (removing the seed), fine blades of mace, a stick of cinnamon, pepper (white pepper is best), and salt to taste. Beat to a froth the whites of six eggs; stir these to the jelly just as it melts; it must then be left to clarify and not stirred again. When it simmers long enough to look clear at the sides, strain it through a flannel bag before the fire; do not squeeze the bag. Suspend it by running a stick through a loop made by tying the bag; rest each end of the stick upon a chair, and throw a table-cloth over all to keep out the dust. If the jelly does not run through clear the first time, pour it through the jelly-bag again. Set this aside. Prepare the meat and seasoning for the pie. Put into a stew-pan slices of pickled pork, using a piece of pork four inches square; if it is very salt[y] lay it an hour in tepid water. Cut up two young, tender chickens--a terrapin, if it is convenient--two or three young squirrels, half a dozen birds or squabs. Stew them gently, cutting up and adding a few sprigs of parsley. Roll into half a pound of butter two tablespoonfuls of flour; add this to the stew until the meat is nearly done. Line a fire-proof dish, or two fire-proof dishes (this quantity of stew will fill two common-sized or quart dishes;) with good pastry; mix the different kinds of meats; put in Irish potato dumplings; season to taste; pour in the gravy and bake. When done, remove the upper crust when the pie is cold and pack in the jelly, heaping the jelly in the middle. Return the crust and serve cold or hot. The jelly will prevent them become too dry. They are good Christmas pies and will keep several days. Very little gravy should be used, and that rich. Should there be too much, leave the stew-pan open until reduced sufficiently. This kind of pie keeps well if made in deep plates, and by some is preferred to those baked in deep moulds."

I've found some other recipes on the internet as well. They're all different!

• http://www.bigoven.c...ndi-recipe.html
• http://www.celtnet.o...eliz-salmagundi
• http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/salmagundi
• http://www.recipe-co...undi/14771.html
• http://www.cookadvic...4633-recipe.htm
• http://www.allbritis.../salmagundi.php

[Karadimos]

Let's re-read the third bullet: "Salmagundi is also purportedly a meal served on pirate ships. It is a stew of anything the cook had on hand, usually consisting of chopped meat, anchovies, eggs, and onions, often arranged in rows on lettuce and served with vinegar and oil, and spiced with anything available. The following is taken from a reprint of "Mrs. Hill's New Cook Book", originally published in 1867 and republished by Applewood Books of Bedford, Massachusetts."

Hi,

Could you please provide the source of the quoted period recipe? Thanks!

Mistress (Jen) Dobyns

Salmagundi is an old recipe that came to be known as a pirate meal.

• "Cut cold roast chicken or other meats into slices. Mix with minced tarragon and an onion. Mix all together with capers, olives, samphire, broombuds, mushrooms, oysters, lemon, orange, raisins, almonds, blue figs, Virginia potatoes, peas and red and white currants. Garnish with sliced oranges and lemons. Cover with oil and vinegar, beaten together." (from The Good Huswives Treasure, Robert May, 1588-1660)
• "A mixture of minced veal, chicken or turkey, anchovies or pickled herring, and onions, all chopped together and served with lemon juice and oil."
• Salmagundi is also purportedly a meal served on pirate ships. It is a stew of anything the cook had on hand, usually consisting of chopped meat, anchovies, eggs, and onions, often arranged in rows on lettuce and served with vinegar and oil, and spiced with anything available. The following is taken from a reprint of "Mrs. Hill's New Cook Book", originally published in 1867 and republished by Applewood Books of Bedford, Massachusetts.

"Boil two calf's feet; take the feet out when done; reduce the broth to a quart. The feet may be fried and used, first removing the bones. Let the broth become cold in an earthen vessel; scrape off all the grease; wipe the top of the jelly with a coarse towel; put the cake of jelly into a kettle lined with tin or porcelain; season it with two lemons cut up (removing the seed), fine blades of mace, a stick of cinnamon, pepper (white pepper is best), and salt to taste. Beat to a froth the whites of six eggs; stir these to the jelly just as it melts; it must then be left to clarify and not stirred again. When it simmers long enough to look clear at the sides, strain it through a flannel bag before the fire; do not squeeze the bag. Suspend it by running a stick through a loop made by tying the bag; rest each end of the stick upon a chair, and throw a table-cloth over all to keep out the dust. If the jelly does not run through clear the first time, pour it through the jelly-bag again. Set this aside. Prepare the meat and seasoning for the pie. Put into a stew-pan slices of pickled pork, using a piece of pork four inches square; if it is very salt[y] lay it an hour in tepid water. Cut up two young, tender chickens--a terrapin, if it is convenient--two or three young squirrels, half a dozen birds or squabs. Stew them gently, cutting up and adding a few sprigs of parsley. Roll into half a pound of butter two tablespoonfuls of flour; add this to the stew until the meat is nearly done. Line a fire-proof dish, or two fire-proof dishes (this quantity of stew will fill two common-sized or quart dishes;) with good pastry; mix the different kinds of meats; put in Irish potato dumplings; season to taste; pour in the gravy and bake. When done, remove the upper crust when the pie is cold and pack in the jelly, heaping the jelly in the middle. Return the crust and serve cold or hot. The jelly will prevent them become too dry. They are good Christmas pies and will keep several days. Very little gravy should be used, and that rich. Should there be too much, leave the stew-pan open until reduced sufficiently. This kind of pie keeps well if made in deep plates, and by some is preferred to those baked in deep moulds."

I've found some other recipes on the internet as well. They're all different!

• http://www.bigoven.c...ndi-recipe.html
• http://www.celtnet.o...eliz-salmagundi
• http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/salmagundi
• http://www.recipe-co...undi/14771.html
• http://www.cookadvic...4633-recipe.htm
• http://www.allbritis.../salmagundi.php

[jendobyns]

Let's re-read the third bullet: "Salmagundi is also purportedly a meal served on pirate ships. It is a stew of anything the cook had on hand, usually consisting of chopped meat, anchovies, eggs, and onions, often arranged in rows on lettuce and served with vinegar and oil, and spiced with anything available. The following is taken from a reprint of "Mrs. Hill's New Cook Book", originally published in 1867 and republished by Applewood Books of Bedford, Massachusetts."

Pardon me for the confusion! The Receipt from 1867 is for a sort of pie, though, and not a salamagundy recept in the earlier sense, judging from period sources so far. How odd that there should be a transition from salad to pie in the methodology, though. One wonders if there's an error somewhere in the printing/editing of the later work.

There will be lots of differences in what you see in ingredients, considering you're looking at receipts from the 17th century through the 19th. The Robert May receipt looks like a sort of salad mixture (I cannot find any reference for that particular title by Robert May other than the online dictionary reference, btw, and will check with my fellow food historians on that). The receipt I have from Nott's Cooks and confectioners Dictionary (1726) is a layered and arranged type of salad, and the title reads "To make a Salomongundy, Salmongundin, or Salgundy.", which also indicates even the name was variable. Interestingly, this is supposed to be served hot for a first course, unlike the cold salads we're used to eating now.

"Take tow or three Roman or Cabbage-Lettuce; and when you have wash'd them clean, swing them pretty dry in a Cloth; then beginning at the open End, cut them cross-ways, as fine as a good big Thread, and lay the Lettuce so cut about an Inch thick in the Bottom of a Dish: When you have thus garnish'd your Dish, take a couple of cold roasted Pullets or Chickens, and cut the Flesh of the Breasts and Wings into Slices about three Inches long, a quarter of an Inch broad, and as thin as a Shilling, lay them upon the Lettuce round the one End of the middle of the Dish, and the other toward the Brim: Then having bon'd and cut half a dozen Anchovies, each into eight Pieces, lay them all round betwixt each Slice of the Flowls; then cut the lean Meat of the Pullets or Chickens Legs into small Dice, and cut a Lemon into small Dice: Then mince the Yolks of four hard Eggs, with three or Four Anchovies, and a little Parsley; and make a round Heap of these in the middle of your Dish, piling it up in the Form of a Sugar-loaf, and garnish it with small Onions as big as the Yolks of Eggs, boiled in a good deal of water, very tender and white; put the largest of the Onions on the middle of the minc'd Meat on the top of the Salomongundy, and lay the rest all round the Brim of the Dish, as thick ans you can lay then; then beat some Sallad-Oil up with Vinegar, Salt, and Pepper, and pour over it all; garnish with Grapes just scalded, or French Beans blanched, or Station-Flowers and serve it up hot for a first Course."

Hi,

Could you please provide the source of the quoted period recipe? Thanks!

Mistress (Jen) Dobyns

Salmagundi is an old recipe that came to be known as a pirate meal.

• "Cut cold roast chicken or other meats into slices. Mix with minced tarragon and an onion. Mix all together with capers, olives, samphire, broombuds, mushrooms, oysters, lemon, orange, raisins, almonds, blue figs, Virginia potatoes, peas and red and white currants. Garnish with sliced oranges and lemons. Cover with oil and vinegar, beaten together." (from The Good Huswives Treasure, Robert May, 1588-1660)
• "A mixture of minced veal, chicken or turkey, anchovies or pickled herring, and onions, all chopped together and served with lemon juice and oil."
• Salmagundi is also purportedly a meal served on pirate ships. It is a stew of anything the cook had on hand, usually consisting of chopped meat, anchovies, eggs, and onions, often arranged in rows on lettuce and served with vinegar and oil, and spiced with anything available. The following is taken from a reprint of "Mrs. Hill's New Cook Book", originally published in 1867 and republished by Applewood Books of Bedford, Massachusetts.

"Boil two calf's feet; take the feet out when done; reduce the broth to a quart. The feet may be fried and used, first removing the bones. Let the broth become cold in an earthen vessel; scrape off all the grease; wipe the top of the jelly with a coarse towel; put the cake of jelly into a kettle lined with tin or porcelain; season it with two lemons cut up (removing the seed), fine blades of mace, a stick of cinnamon, pepper (white pepper is best), and salt to taste. Beat to a froth the whites of six eggs; stir these to the jelly just as it melts; it must then be left to clarify and not stirred again. When it simmers long enough to look clear at the sides, strain it through a flannel bag before the fire; do not squeeze the bag. Suspend it by running a stick through a loop made by tying the bag; rest each end of the stick upon a chair, and throw a table-cloth over all to keep out the dust. If the jelly does not run through clear the first time, pour it through the jelly-bag again. Set this aside. Prepare the meat and seasoning for the pie. Put into a stew-pan slices of pickled pork, using a piece of pork four inches square; if it is very salt[y] lay it an hour in tepid water. Cut up two young, tender chickens--a terrapin, if it is convenient--two or three young squirrels, half a dozen birds or squabs. Stew them gently, cutting up and adding a few sprigs of parsley. Roll into half a pound of butter two tablespoonfuls of flour; add this to the stew until the meat is nearly done. Line a fire-proof dish, or two fire-proof dishes (this quantity of stew will fill two common-sized or quart dishes;) with good pastry; mix the different kinds of meats; put in Irish potato dumplings; season to taste; pour in the gravy and bake. When done, remove the upper crust when the pie is cold and pack in the jelly, heaping the jelly in the middle. Return the crust and serve cold or hot. The jelly will prevent them become too dry. They are good Christmas pies and will keep several days. Very little gravy should be used, and that rich. Should there be too much, leave the stew-pan open until reduced sufficiently. This kind of pie keeps well if made in deep plates, and by some is preferred to those baked in deep moulds."

I've found some other recipes on the internet as well. They're all different!

• http://www.bigoven.c...ndi-recipe.html
• http://www.celtnet.o...eliz-salmagundi
• http://www.ifood.tv/recipe/salmagundi
• http://www.recipe-co...undi/14771.html
• http://www.cookadvic...4633-recipe.htm
• http://www.allbritis.../salmagundi.php

[jendobyns]

Having re-read this, I still have doubts about the source of the info quoted. I have not been able to find a reference for any work by Robert May called "The Good Huswives Treasure" beyond online dictionary entries which all seem to be the same version of the Wikipedia entry, which is not a reliable source. A similar receipt to the one credited to him under salmagundy in the online dictionary entries does show up in his work entitled " The Accomplisht Cook", the existence of which I can verify. This is available online through Project Gutenberg, and is listed as "To make a grand Sallet of divers Compounds". I am still looking through the May book on Project Gutenberg for specific mention of Salamagundy, but it's a very long piece of reading and I have other responsibilities at the moment. Wonderful stuff, though, including sauces for all sorts of interesting foods. And it's a great illustration of how they would eat everything but the squeak *G*

I suspect there has been some error in the online dictionary entry, whatever it's origin, and I'm still investigating. The interpreter/historian/researcher/educator in me finds misinformation really frustrating. And the internet seems to be one of the worst when it comes to spreading misinformation.

Mistress Dobyns

NAI CIG

For the curious, here's the link for Robert May's "The Accomplisht Cook" on Project Gutenberg. http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/22790

Let's re-read the third bullet: "Salmagundi is also purportedly a meal served on pirate ships. It is a stew of anything the cook had on hand, usually consisting of chopped meat, anchovies, eggs, and onions, often arranged in rows on lettuce and served with vinegar and oil, and spiced with anything available. The following is taken from a reprint of "Mrs. Hill's New Cook Book", originally published in 1867 and republished by Applewood Books of Bedford, Massachusetts."

Hi,

Could you please provide the source of the quoted period recipe? Thanks!

Mistress (Jen) Dobyns

[

[Mission]

If you go to Google books, you'll find Hannah Glasse's recipe for Salmagundy from The Art of Cookery, which is much, much closer to period (1747). (The exercise is left to the reader.)

I used it at Pirates in Paradise in 2008.

[Grymm]

Ah the joys of the cut and paste world where one mistake get transmitted and multiplied.....

Bob May has several Sallets that resemble the recipe, there's 'To make a grand sallet of minced capon, veal,roast mutton chicken or nets tongue'(pg92 of my prospect facsimilie) and 4 pages of Grand Sallets that follow on from "To make a grand Sallet of divers Compounds" that the divine Mstrs Dobyns mentioned.

In quite a few of my 18thC cookbooks there's Salamagundi recipes or a variation on that name.

R. Bradley's The Country Housewifes and Lady's Director.... circa 1734 (Echo Library reprints isbn 1847028527)

and 1725s Court Cookery or the Complete English Cook by Robert Smith, before he joined The Cure obviously. (Kessinger Publishing isbn 9781104113148)

And for the veggy pirates out there squirreled away in the Huntingdon is a copy of the first know Enlish language veggy cookbook entitled 'Wisdom's dictates, or, Aphorisms & rules, physical, moral, and divine, for preserving the health of the body, and the peace of the mind ... : to which is added a bill of fare of seventy five noble dishes of excellent food, for exceeding those made of fish or flesh ...' by Thomas Tryon 1st ed sometime in the 1690s. and a small number of his rather basic recipes rock up in Early Vegetarian Recipes by Anne O'Connell (978-1903018583)

[Mission]

And for the veggy pirates out there squirreled away in the Huntingdon is a copy of the first know Enlish language veggy cookbook entitled 'Wisdom's dictates, or, Aphorisms & rules, physical, moral, and divine, for preserving the health of the body, and the peace of the mind ... : to which is added a bill of fare of seventy five noble dishes of excellent food, for exceeding those made of fish or flesh ...' by Thomas Tryon 1st ed sometime in the 1690s. and a small number of his rather basic recipes rock up in Early Vegetarian Recipes by Anne O'Connell (978-1903018583)

[/size][/font]

You don't say! I'll have to get a copy of that. For anyone else who's interested, you can find it on Amazon here. I must say I'm surprised. Most of what I've seen in the surgical books and sailor journals refers to meat as the pre-eminent foodstuff. Yet another wee bit of proof that people in 17th/18th c. were quite diverse in their preferences - not unlike today.

[Grymm]

You don't say! I'll have to get a copy of that. For anyone else who's interested, you can find it on Amazon here. I must say I'm surprised. Most of what I've seen in the surgical books and sailor journals refers to meat as the pre-eminent foodstuff. Yet another wee bit of proof that people in 17th/18th c. were quite diverse in their preferences - not unlike today.

Tryon was a bit of a zealot/nutter and wrote a number of manuals on 'humane living' and the Anne O'Connell book only contains about dozen or so of Tryons recipes most of the recipes in her book are from mid-late 19thC.

Here's one of Y'mans to be going on with....circa 1691.

Eggs, Parsley and Sorrel, mixed or stirred together, and fried in a Pan with Butter and a little Salt, and when done, melt some Butter and Vinager and put them on, but you must not put too great a quantity of Herbs, for then it will render it more heavy and dull in Operation; this is a noble and most delicious Dish and it affords a good nourishment, provided you eat not too much in Quantity

Edited June 24, 2010 by Grymm

[LadyBarbossa]

Verified documentation or not, still, sounds rather delightful to try at least (WITHOUT the anchovies!).

There's many varieties of salmagundi. Many of them tastey.

~Lady B

[jendobyns]

I just ran across what might be the origin of the term salamagundy (and all it's variants). Charles Carter was a cook for various high status people including an ambassador to Spain in 1710, and wrote "The Complete Practical Cook" 1730, later on in his career. In one of his accounts of the King's meals (George II?), he mentions "Sallad Morgundy". Considering how words get muddled from one form to another, Sallad Morgundy to Salamagundy doesn't seem a far stretch. Salamagundy being a form of salad we've established. Tracing it back to something actually called a salad makes a lot of sense. I'm going to investigate further and see where this goes.

Before I start reinventing the wheel, though, is there anyone on this forum who has already run across this?

[Mission]

It's specifically mentioned in the General History of the Pyrates by Johnson in 1726.

"[bartholomew] Robert's Crew discerning [the British Man of War ship Swallow's] Masts over the Land, went down into the Cabin, to acquaint him of it, he being then at Breakfast with his new Guest, Captain Hill, on a savoury Dish of Solomongundy, and some of his own Beer." (Johnson, p. 270)

The recipe isn't given and the spelling is a bit different, but it seems pretty clear what it is. Oddly, this is the only place I've seen it mentioned in conjunction with pirates and yet today it is closely identified with them. (I have seen them identified with 'sallat' and 'sallating' in several period docs, however.)

[jendobyns]

I wasn't debating it's existence, just thinking about the term as it might have evolved and it's possible origins. Knowing to look under another term can be helpful. Goodness knows we have plenty of examples of words pronounced (and sometimes spelled) very differently than how they started (waistcoat, forecastle, boatswain, Worcester, to name a few). Basically it's a composed salad of varying styles and ingredients. Personally, I'd leave off the anchovies

[Mission]

Yes, I understood that, which is why I pointed out that it appeared in 1726. If I understood you correctly, your reference is from 1730. As for spelling... good luck with that! I have seen the same word spelled three different ways on the same page. (The word was 'blood.')

[jendobyns]

Here's the thing about period cookbooks. And this entry in particular. Usually by the time a period version of "celebrity chef" gets around to publishing the book, there has been a lifetime of experience. So the historic foodways academic standard for when a food appears is at least ten to twenty years back from publish date, and sometimes, depending on the trail of previous recipes, much earlier. A sort of evolution of some recipes can be traced. It kind of depends on who plagiarizes whose work and how many revisions of a work there are during it's lifetime, too. There have been versions of cookbooks "authored by" which have only a borrowed author's name in common with the original work. The information Carter provides includes this meal for the King (George II) on Sept 10 (no year) which contains the Sallad Morgundy dish and several others. He also catalogued George II's coronation dinner in 1727, so it is likely fairly close to the date you have for 1726. We have no idea where he picked up that particular name for the dish (yet), but it does look like perhaps the terminology trickles down from the original name much the same way a word or message changes during the game of "telephone". Add dialects, accents, irregular spelling and period hand writing, and it's fodder for a Master's Thesis.

I keep trying to sort out how to copy and past the passage where this is mentioned, but can't seem to do it. So if you want to look up symposium notes from The Oxford Symposium on Food and Cookery 2001 "The Meal". It's buried in the paper on "The Fine Art of Eighteenth-Century Table Layouts" and describes Carter's career and rough dates on pages 167-68/9. Ultimately, it would be best to track down Carter's work and look for more direct leads, as the Oxford papers are not the primary source. Meanwhile, I'll be asking my associates who might have researched this already. It might have even been the subject of a previous paper, I just haven't found it yet. Hmmm, Clarissa probably knows.

[Mission]

By your reasoning, we should date the Roberts' account to 1722. Although I think academically they tend to use the publishing date for such things lacking other datable data because there are too many imponderables otherwise.

It's hard to say whether what Carter wrote was his original concept, a misspelling or spelling based on misunderstood spoken word(s). A lot of spelling I've seen in English books from this period is phonetic. If everything else in the book to which you refer is spelled correctly, you can knock out misspelling for the most part. Other than that, it's hard to say unless you find further evidence of the logic behind the term "Sallad Morgundy."

[Mission]

This is kind of fun. It's from The Adventures of Roderick Random by Tobias Smollett. Note that this book is a fictional parody of life at sea, so you have to take everything you read in it with at least a grain of salt. (Which is appropriate in this thread, of course.)

"The affair being ended, and everything adjusted in the best manner my circumstances would permit the descendant of Caractacus [referring to Mr. Morgan, meaning he is a feisty Welshman as I understand this comment] returned, and ordering the boy to bring a piece of salt beef from the brine, cut off a slice, and mixed it with an equal quantity of onions, which seasoning with a moderate proportion of pepper and salt, he brought it into a consistence with oil and vinegar. Then tasting the dish, assured us, it was the best salmagundy that he had ever made, and recommended it to our palate with such heartiness, that I could not help doing honour to his preparation.But I had no sooner swallowed a mouthful, than I thought my entrails were scorched, and endeavoured, with a deluge of small beer, to allay the heat it occasioned. Supper being over, Mr. Morgan having smoked a couple of pipes, and supplied the moisture he had expended with as many cans of flip, of which we all partook," (Smollett, p. 173)

[Daniel]

I just ran across what might be the origin of the term salamagundy (and all it's variants). Charles Carter was a cook for various high status people including an ambassador to Spain in 1710, and wrote "The Complete Practical Cook" 1730, later on in his career. In one of his accounts of the King's meals (George II?), he mentions "Sallad Morgundy". Considering how words get muddled from one form to another, Sallad Morgundy to Salamagundy doesn't seem a far stretch. Salamagundy being a form of salad we've established. Tracing it back to something actually called a salad makes a lot of sense. I'm going to investigate further and see where this goes.

Before I start reinventing the wheel, though, is there anyone on this forum who has already run across this?

Douglas Botting's The Pirates, p. 45, gives a French origin for the name, several centuries earlier than this. "The name is thought to be a corruption of the medieval French salemine, meaning salted or highly seasoned, and to have evolved to salmagonde by the gourmandizing Rabelais in the 16th Century." Botting doesn't cite any exact sources, but translations of Rabelais definitely show him using the word "salmagundi" in Gargantua and Pantagruel, so it goes back at least to the 16th century. http://books.google.com/books?id=Hl6PtUdIFawC&pg=PA264&lpg=PA264&dq=Rabelais+salmagundi&source=bl&ots=XPHT5tR0KD&sig=pTZAgioNUg8YdN1q8wIoRBgSrYQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=KSXcUaqWJdKYrgGxv4GIDg&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Rabelais%20salmagundi&f=false

Of course, once adopted by the English, salmagonde might turn into "salmagundi," "Solomon Gundy," "Sallad Morgundy," and any number of other versions, just as coutlas became cutlass, cutlash, etc.

[jendobyns]

Daniel, thanks for that. It's been, oh, well, let's just say rocks were soft when I read that book. Or at least a part of it, in college. One doesn't forget a name like Pantagruel! I had completely forgotten about it!

Great reference. I may just have to re-read that.

[Mission]

Just found this while looking for something else. It's from Robert Smith's Court cookery: or, The compleat English cook. London: 1725:

"Salamongundy.

Take some of the Flesh-part of a Turkey, and the like Quantity of a Chicken minced very small; a few hard Eggs, and half the whites; some Anchovies, Capers, Mushrooms and Lemon-peel, minc'd very small; a little Sorrel, Cives [Chives?], and Spinage: Mix and mince all these well together, and pour over it the Juice of Orange, Lemon, Oil and vinegar, and servit: Garnish with Barberries." (Smith, p. 42)

[jendobyns]

Interesting. Most of the receipts I have seen for this make it a composed salad (layers, and rather decorative). This just mixes it all together.

[Mission]

It's kind of like recipes today - everyone has their own twist. In fact, the more info I find on various specific aspects of daily life at this time, the more varied and creative GAoP folks seem to be n their daily lives. I guess people are people....

[Captain Jim]

"A person's a person, no matter how long ago." (With my apologies to Horton)

[LadyBarbossa]

I'm revising this topic because I love it! 

So... is Salmagundi a stew or salad? Or both? Or is it just a common name for a wide-ranging mix of items to make a unique dish?

[Mission]

It is sort of both, sort of neither. Because of the dressing, It would have been considered a type of salad during the period featured in The General History of the Pyrates. Since the earliest appearance of the word referring to a stew (actually a ragout) is 1759, well after the end of the golden age of piracy, that is not likely to be what the GHoP is talking about. The Smollet Roderick Random recipe I cite above (1748), further tying it to life at sea, lends strength to this. Although I would say this would have been officer's food rather than general mess. Keep in mind it was Roberts and his guest who were enjoying their savory dish, not the crew.

Something worth noting, which I learned after this discussion ended - cookbooks did not represent the food of sailors or even the regular populace/middling classes; they represented the food of the elite. They were written for the cooks of the people who could afford to pay cooks. So they are not necessarily a very reliable source. Then again, they could be appropriate for a large ship's officers (particularly English Navy or East India Company), some of whom actually did hire cooks to serve them on their ships.

In fact, the inclusion of this detail in the Roberts account (something not found in the trial documents) may have been intended to show what an elite person Roberts was. Consider other unverified details in that account like his fancy clothing and unusual behaviors. Parts of the GHoP may have been made up by its mysterious author.

See this website for more information:

https://www.etymonline.com/word/salmagundi

(I notice that the online information regarding salmagundi has improved quite a bit since this discussion began in 2010.)