Help me identify this flintlock

[Capt. J...]

Saturday I bought a Pirate Sea Service Pike pistol at a gun show....I will be posting pictures tommorow....I need help identifying this gun....The person I bought this from has not seen anything like this and he has seen collecting for 50 years.... It is in great shape and the detailing is very interesting...it has silver coarsing in the handle and under the barrel on the stock....the butt has been shaved down and a pike was installed...so its a gun with a pike/axe at the end.....the interresting thing is that it does not have a ramrod holder.......any thoughts Bretheren ?

[Cascabel]

Saturday I bought a Pirate Sea Service Pike pistol at a gun show....I will be posting pictures tommorow....I need help identifying this gun....The person I bought this from has not seen anything like this and he has seen collecting for 50 years.... It is in great shape and the detailing is very interesting...it has silver coarsing in the handle and under the barrel on the stock....the butt has been shaved down and a pike was installed...so its a gun with a pike/axe at the end.....the interresting thing is that it does not have a ramrod holder.......any thoughts Bretheren ?

Can't give you much info without Pics !!!

>>>> Cascabel

[William Brand]

Here are the images on the Capt's behalf.

[Cascabel]

Well........

I hope you didn't pay much for it. Unfortunately, it has all the appearances of one of those cobbled together pieces intended for the tourist trade made in the Middle East or North Africa from old parts of dubious origin. Never intended to be fired, only a wall hanger.

I really hate to torpedo a guy's choices after he has spent his hard earned money, but there it is........

>>>> Cascabel

[callenish gunner]

I'd have to 100% agree with Cascabel on this one ...the lock has extremely suspect geometry and the axe head with the rear spike isn't built for actual cutting it appears that it is too blunt to be effective as a cutting weapon. Many local craftsman in many small towns and cities across the middle east made pseudo period weapons to sell to tourists over the past century or so. The Indians and Pakistanis and Afghans especially have made these sorts of items from scrap parts or knock-offs. The shape of the frizzen and the frizzen spring just don't look right to me.

[Capt Thighbiter]

I agree - that silver wire inlay - very middle eastern or India. Same goes for the axe head.

[MarkG]

Well........

I hope you didn't pay much for it. Unfortunately, it has all the appearances of one of those cobbled together pieces intended for the tourist trade made in the Middle East or North Africa from old parts of dubious origin. Never intended to be fired, only a wall hanger.

I really hate to torpedo a guy's choices after he has spent his hard earned money, but there it is........

>>>> Cascabel

I'm sure that you are correct. You can get some interesting parts from these wall-hangers. I bought a pair of pistols that had some real snaphaunce locks. After I soaked the better one in oil for a while I got the rust off and got everything loosened up. I was able to replace a few pieces and get it to fire. Of course, the rest of it was complete junk.

Mark

[Cascabel]

Well........

I hope you didn't pay much for it. Unfortunately, it has all the appearances of one of those cobbled together pieces intended for the tourist trade made in the Middle East or North Africa from old parts of dubious origin. Never intended to be fired, only a wall hanger.

I really hate to torpedo a guy's choices after he has spent his hard earned money, but there it is........

>>>> Cascabel

I'm sure that you are correct. You can get some interesting parts from these wall-hangers. I bought a pair of pistols that had some real snaphaunce locks. After I soaked the better one in oil for a while I got the rust off and got everything loosened up. I was able to replace a few pieces and get it to fire. Of course, the rest of it was complete junk.

Mark

The interesting part about some of these things is that they often have decent quality European made locks, or other parts attached to them. There was a thriving market in obsolete and surplus gun parts going on in the old days, just like today. Obsolete parts were sold where ever people would buy them. Many of them wound up in the Middle East and Africa after they became totally outdated in Europe.

Sometimes complete locks were available, but most often by the time they made it to the surplus market, parts were missing. Missing parts were crudely made by local craftsmen. You will sometimes encounter the long "camel rider" muskets with English or French pistol locks incorporated, along with locally made barrels. Napoleonic period French locks are commonly found on cheap smoothbore guns made for sale to native tribesmen in the African interior. Later on, the non-functional pieces for the tourist trade were being made using the same sources for some of the parts. This is where inexperienced collectors can get into trouble.

>>>> Cascabel

[MarkG]

Well........

I hope you didn't pay much for it. Unfortunately, it has all the appearances of one of those cobbled together pieces intended for the tourist trade made in the Middle East or North Africa from old parts of dubious origin. Never intended to be fired, only a wall hanger.

I really hate to torpedo a guy's choices after he has spent his hard earned money, but there it is........

>>>> Cascabel

I'm sure that you are correct. You can get some interesting parts from these wall-hangers. I bought a pair of pistols that had some real snaphaunce locks. After I soaked the better one in oil for a while I got the rust off and got everything loosened up. I was able to replace a few pieces and get it to fire. Of course, the rest of it was complete junk.

Mark

The interesting part about some of these things is that they often have decent quality European made locks, or other parts attached to them. There was a thriving market in obsolete and surplus gun parts going on in the old days, just like today. Obsolete parts were sold where ever people would buy them. Many of them wound up in the Middle East and Africa after they became totally outdated in Europe.

Sometimes complete locks were available, but most often by the time they made it to the surplus market, parts were missing. Missing parts were crudely made by local craftsmen. You will sometimes encounter the long "camel rider" muskets with English or French pistol locks incorporated, along with locally made barrels. Napoleonic period French locks are commonly found on cheap smoothbore guns made for sale to native tribesmen in the African interior. Later on, the non-functional pieces for the tourist trade were being made using the same sources for some of the parts. This is where inexperienced collectors can get into trouble.

>>>> Cascabel

The lock that I have has a brass maker's mark inlayed in brass that looks Arabic to me. Otherwise the lock looks like a European one.