Female Pirates

[Silkie McDonough]

Name a Historical Male Pyrate that was not a Captain

Mister Patrick Hand.

One of the least notorious pirates of the GAoP. Prided himself in not being spoted amongst his peers at the time. Blended in with the crowd so well that he was often mistaken as a common sailor.

One of the most authentic pirates I have come across.

Smee from Peter Pan?

[hurricane]

That's an easy one Patrick.

John Esquemeling -- Author of that libelous scandal sheet, Buccaneers of America, who served under Sir Henry Morgan as a physician aboard one of his many ships.

I could whip up a few more but I'm off to Animal Kingdom this morning.

-- Hurricane

[Capn_Enigma]

Good one, Hurricane. Hadn't thought of him at all.

Off the top of my head, I'd name the "Lords" of Bart Robert's crew: Valentine Ashplant, Messrs. Hardy, Sympson, Magnes, Sutton & Moody.

[William Brand]

William Moore. He was made famous as the gunner of William Kidd. William Moore was killed by Kidd during an arguement over a Dutch ship when Kidd struck him with an ironbound bucket, fracturing Moore's skull.

[Patrick Hand]

This should be in another thread.....

Captain John Rackam

Master George Fetherston

Quartermaster: Richard Corner

John Davis

John Howell

Patrick Carty

Thomas Earl

James Dobbin

Noah Harwood

John Eaton

Edward Warner

Thomas Baker

Thomas Quick

John Cole

Benjamin Talmer

Walterr Rouse

John Hanson

John Howard

"Two other pirates were tried that belonged to Rackam's crew, and being convicted, were brought up , and asked if either of them had any thing to say why sentence of death should not pass upon them...."

Yah.... and everyone know who they are......

It's also interesting that the two female pirate captains/leaders had careers that spanned decades.

Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria had careers that were longer than Abraham Lincoln’s..... Is that because they were better leaders, or from different political systems ?

[Silkie McDonough]

may just be because women have longer life spans.

[Red-Handed Jill]

Women also tend to not take as many risks as men do (due to lower testosterone levels), so female pirate captains live to plunder another day!

[Black Syren]

Personally I like this part

Ironically, Cheng I Sao's most famous laws applied to the taking of female prisoners. Ugly women were returned to shore, free of charge. Attractive captives were auctioned off to the crew, unless a pirate personally purchased the captive, in which case they were considered married. Of course, if that pirate cheated on his new bride, Cheng I Sao had him killed.

Not that I would like to have been in the womens shoes..But intresting all the same.

[Calico Jack]

Name a Historical Male Pyrate that was not a Captain.....Just part of someone's crew......

Philip Ashton. Esquemeling. James Ferguson. Maggie Jordan. Jones, Hazelton, Anderson and Tevaskiss from the Saladin. Moore was a mutineer, but not a pirate, as it turns out that Kidd wasn't a pirate either. The man did have those French papers to prove them legitimate capture. They turned up in a desk, hundreds of years later... Still, should I keep going? There are quite a few. I have not even started on the surgeons, or those fellows from "the Chesapeake Incident" during the American Civil War [who, it turns out, did NOT have papers, and thus were NOT privateers], or any of Ned Low's crew... The hard one is to name a Ren-Faire pirate that is not a captain [grins].

[HarborMaster]

Seems i have mentioned her ( Cheng I Sao ) in several posts of the last 4 years. and no-one wanted to acknowledge it before ., now shes on CNN and everywhere . Is this the "Pyracy Pub" or the "GAoP Pub"

And piracy began the first time someone built something that floated., someone tried to steal it. however.,it seems many try to gear the Pub and piracy in general to the GAoP even tho thats such a tiny little fraction of time in the history of the world and pirates .,and also some feel Asia didnt even exist between the dates of the golden age let alone the nineteenth century ( i wonder if Cheng I Sao knows she didnt exist by people who just play pirate?) .

Funny isnt it that Spain got more property than anyone else by far., and they were not limited to the caribbean.

Personally when I hear the word pirate I picture an attitude or an act., or acts., and the sea., a ship ., ect., I dont picture in my mind a time line. The hollywood pirate comes to mind alot ., but dates to me do not.

Perhaps the Mods should define the Pub ?

Oh and i need to add to the post above mine., I just read the pulitzer prize winner of 1959 written by Admiral Morrison.,titled

John Paul Jones. It seems the british considered him quite the pirate . And he came 100 years later than the GAoP ., yet he took HMS Serapis as the Bonhomme Richard sank beneath his feet., sailed around the isles and generally pissed people off. Yea the crown wanted this one for acts of humiliation against the crown (JPJ kicked Butt., a true hero.,god rest his soul). I guess it all depends on which side a persons on......, Ya-ha-ha-ha !!

[BriarRose Kildare]

Personally I like this part

Ironically, Cheng I Sao's most famous laws applied to the taking of female prisoners. Ugly women were returned to shore, free of charge. Attractive captives were auctioned off to the crew, unless a pirate personally purchased the captive, in which case they were considered married. Of course, if that pirate cheated on his new bride, Cheng I Sao had him killed.

Not that I would like to have been in the womens shoes..But intresting all the same.

Thank you Syren dear for pointing that out. She was a strong individual and her laws were strict but she applied them well.

[Calico Jack]

it seems many try to gear the Pub and piracy in general to the GAoP

John Paul Jones was a pirate in that he served the American Navy, capturing vessels along the Nova Scotian coast and in the Indies, but he did so in early 1776, before the American revolutionary congress declared either independance or war. As such, even had he a letter of marque, since the "nations" were not yet at war, he could not be a privateer. Without a declared independance, he was a British subject, aboard a ship from the Colonies, capturing British merchant vessels for profit.

Hero to the upcoming Americans [who declared independance in July 1776, some 5 months after Jones' depradations began] or no, Jones was in fact, a pirate.

That said, piracy does have folk on these forums who regard it as larger than the GAoP. Last pirates hanged here in Halifax was 1844. Last recorded incident of piracy that touched home here was 1863, where some Confederates with forged Letter mutinied and captured a Union steamer Chesapeake and sailed her to Halifax to try to avoid the Union. [Aside note: Harper's Weekly of the day called them "British Pirates!"] The Union then sailed naval vessels into British waters, instead of requesting extradition, and attempted to sieze the pirates in British waters, by force. It led to some poor politics, and to Confederate sympathy, that the Union which was declaring about sovereignty did not respect the sovereign territories of others... Very interesting incident.

Anyhow, piracy goes back to at least Julius, before becoming Emperor, who was captured by pirates [that one has been recorded for history]; and it goes until at least 23 August, 2007. There has not been a reported incident of piracy since, as of the date of this post.

[Fox]

Hero to the upcoming Americans [who declared independance in July 1776, some 5 months after Jones' depradations began] or no, Jones was in fact, a pirate.

Ah, an interesting conundrum... morals versus the law.

I'm constantly fielding critics at work who can't stand the words "Drake" and "pirate" in the same sentence. Even one very reputable scholar.

"Drake was a privateer! Never a pirate!" they (sometimes literally) scream at me.

... 'til I point out that until 1585 England and Spain were not at war.

Legally, he was very much a pirate, that's why Elizabeth couldn't afford to knight him herself. Morally speaking, Spain were kind of cold-war enemies at the time, and Drake was never indiscriminate, so it's really a bit unfair to call him a pirate.

Same thing during the English civil war. The Royalist had, at times, hundreds of privateers working for them (in fact, the privateers were the last people still "flying the flag" for the Royalist forces - even up to the very month of the Restoration), but by a curious quirk of English law did not have the legal right to issue letters of marque. Thus, when the Parliamentarians described them as "Royalist pirates" they were speaking the literal truth. On the other hand, the privateers were working for the monarch of the country against what they perceived as a rebellious force.

Or maybe they were just in it for the cash...

[Graydog]

The most successful pirate was BEAUTIFUL and tough.

Bill Gates beautiful? He pirated Windows from MacIntosh. There was huge legal wrangling over the pirating, which he eventually won. The rest be dollars in his pocket. Now, I'd be callin him the most sucessful pirate!

[Barracuda Beth]

In the history of pirates,were there many or few female pites,famous or otherwise?

[seabaroness]

Off the top of my head I can name Mary Read, Anne Bonny and Grace O'Malley. I'm sure other members can add to the list. We'll probably never knew true numbers because of the need for women to disguise themselves.

[Captain McCool]

Proportionally, there seemed to be relatively few female pirates. Of course, the most famous are, Grace O'Malley, who operated in and around Irish waters in the Elizabethan period (late 1500's), and then of course Anne Bonnie and Mary Read, who sailed the Caribbean with Captain "Calico" Jack Rackham in the early 1700's. And if you look to the East, there was Madam Cheng, who cruised Chinese waters in the early 1800's. There are a few others, and even one quite famous female conquistador, but nearly all of them (with O'Malley and Cheng being noteable exceptions) dressed as men most of the time. I believe I may venture to say that openly female pirates were almost nonexistant, at least in European waters.

However, there were almost certainly those women who dressed as men and were never found out. But since there is no historical record of such women, proving their existance is pretty damn difficult.

[callenish gunner]

In the cramped quarters aboard ship I think very few women could maintain a disguise for long as a male. The few known female pirates were definately the exception rather than the rule albeit in Hollywood you'd think they were a dime a dozen and all of them somehow Captains. Yeah! and I'm the King of France!!!

[Captain McCool]

You can't be the King of France! I'M the King of France!

And yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

[oderlesseye]

Thar was that famous Chinese pirate who ruled the South China seas to the point she held a death grip on commerce..

The most successful pirate of all time controlled a fleet of more than 1,500 ships and upwards of 80,000 sailors..her name: Cheng I Sao. As For her dressing like a man..Eye doubt that..She inherited the pirate fleet when her husband died.. At the time she married him ..she was said to have been a most beautiful prostitute...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/worklife/08/27/woman.pirate/

Edited April 26, 2010 by oderlesseye

[Tartan Jack]

This should be under "Captain Twill" for historical discussions, rather than "Order of the Leviathan."

As for the question . . .

One simple reason (historically speaking):

Sailors, by the nature of the job and mores of the eras we are talking, were all men. Any "women sailors" would have been disguised as men, as Mary Reed and Anne Bonny were before they revealed themselves to one another and Rackham (and Mary's lover). The issue of when/if they were "exposed" to the rest of the crew is a matter of debate. Remember that "Mary" had been raised as "Mark Reed" since childhood and even spent a good time as an infantry soldier under the name of "Mark Reed."

Now, sailors made up the vast majority of pirates. The exceptions were the "buccaneers" that were more soldiers on ships than real sailors, landlubbers who "went-a-pirating" (like Stede Bonnet) for some reason or another, and skilled men of one kind or another.

Women just weren't in a place to become pirates as we think of them popularly. The very reason Mary and Anne became so famous is that they were a marked exception, shocking, and became a MAJOR news and tabloid story. Neither were captains and served under the less-than-really-great-pirate John "Calico Jack" Rackham (mostly known for being caught w/ Mary and Anne aboard- AFTER he called out his name and then went below deck to drink . . . ).

(Edit- I remembered the wrong info, from an inaccurate source on whether or not they were known as women and when. There is a lot of bad-info out there on them and I remembered one that was less-than-accurate. I withdraw most of the above. I bow to Foxe, as he has studied this topic FAR more than I have.)

Grace operated not as a captain on ship, but more like an Irish chief. She was over sailors, who were followers.

(Edit- I mis-remembered this and looked it up again. She did. Her close contemporary female nautical leader did not.)

Edited April 28, 2010 by Tartan Jack

[Fox]

Few points to consider:

Anne Bonny and Mary Read were never disguised during their piratical career (provably, Johnson got it wrong, or deliberately fabricated). Whether either of them were disguised before that may depend on whether or not you think Johnson's version is trustworthy.

Both were probably pregnant at the time of their becoming pirates.

Grace O'Malley did indeed command ships herself.

Lady Killigrew, the other famous female 'pirate' contemporary with O'Malley, did not ever, so far as the historical record shows, step foot on a ship, so probably ought not to be considered a pirate.

The argument that there might have been disguised who never got discovered may hold true, but only up to a point. Consider, for example, that of the four women known to be pirates between 1720 and 1730, none of them was disguised. We cannot, therefore assume that it ever happened on the basis of precedent. In the maritime world in general, the records of women at sea in disguise are a minority compared to the records of women at sea openly.

So, yes, there might have been some that slipped through the net. But the net's probably tighter than might be imagined. We know, or have ways of tracking, the ultimate fate of a large number of pirates, and many hundred of them ended up on trial, the records of which survive. A crowded prison cell would be an even harder place to conceal one's femininity, so we can safely assume that the number of disguised female pirate who made it to trial was nil - or very nearly nil - since none are recorded.

[Tartan Jack]

I concede to Foxe . . .

He know a HECK of a lot more on it than me.

[Captain McCool]

That's an interesting point, Foxe. I hadn't really thought of the imprisonment and trial records, but in retrospect it seems pretty obvious. Still, there were plenty of pirates who were never caught. However, if memory serves (which it rarely does with any accuracy), wasn't there a Frenchwoman in either the late 1600's or early 1700's as well? I know I've read about her somewhere, but I can't remember her name.

And as for Bonnie and Read, I always read that they generally dressed as women aboard, but when they went into action changed into men's clothing. Though perhaps this may not have actually constituted a disguises, since they probably could have been recognized as women despite their masculine clothing. Still, it would make more sense to fight in breeches rather than skirts. And I also thought that they became pregnant towards the end of their carreers, rather than the beginning. Anne had a baby while sailing with Rackham, but to my knowledge, Mary's only pregnancy ended when she died of jail fever. Is that accurate?

[Daniel]

I wonder, how many women prisoners are recorded as being kept by pirates? A significant number of them might have been actual pirates. Almost every pirate who stood trial pleaded that he was a forced man. Women could have much more credibly have pled that they were "forced" - i.e. prisoners - since it would rarely occur to anyone that they might have been on the vessel voluntarily. Granted, Read and Bonny never claimed to have been forced, but they were cursing and swearing at their men to fight, and were carrying and firing weapons, right up until Barnet overpowered them. So in their case a plea of being forced would have looked pretty silly. A more circumspect female pirate could have passed herself off as a captured prisoner so long as none of her shipmates pointed the finger at her. Is there any evidence about this?