Female Pirates

[Red Maria]

There's a brilliant reference somewhere (I'll see if I can dig it up) to the frigate Duncannon at the siege of Youghal in 1645 which mentions that the ship was blown up by a woman carrying a candle into the powder room. My first thought on reading it was "So THAT'S why women on ships were considered unlucky!" LOL. Anyway, the point is that here we have a woman on a warship, during action, presumably helping the gun crews by fetching powder. This probably also means that she was not an officer's wife, as the fetching and carrying would probably be considered below her, which means that in all probablility she was in fact a seaman's wife, a fact which the author of the document did not seem to think unusual. Of course, it must be borne in mind that the Duncannon was in "home" waters rather than "foreign" at the time, which may have a considerable bearing.

Foxe

I found this reference to women aboard ships and ammunition handling in The Age of Sail: The International Annual of the Historic Sailing Ship v.1 pg. 190 Life at Sea on Board the Replica Endeavour .. byAndrew Lambert:

"For many years it was believed that women were rarely, if ever, on board warships. This like much else about life in the eighteenth century Navy was a Victorian invention that said more about the values of the mid nineteenth century than it did about the realities of the previous century. In fact large numbers of women went to sea, usually the wives of the petty officers, mature women who played important role, including medical treatment and ammunition handling (appearantly not all women were as foolish as the one you mentioned ). Not a few children were born on warships, and some women entered under assumed male identities, although the fact that they were not discovered is very revealing of the low incidence of bathing, be it on deck or in the sea"

[Captain Emerald Shaunassey]

I do not know if anyone has these links or if they have been posted elsewhere but, I found them interesting.

http://womenshistory.about.com/cs/femalepirates/

http://www.deadmentellnotales.com/onlinete...womenlist.shtml

Cap'n Emerald

['Salem Bob']

Since the only occupation that a woman could hold was prostitution, I'd say there were probably more women pirates than anyone can count. I know I'd rather be a pirate than the other title anyday.

Girl pirate power!

Capt. WE Roberts

Ahoy Elizabeth!

I assure you that your assertation that the only trade women could legally participate in was prostitution is mistaken. My wife having studied Medieval trade guilds in England and Flanders during the 14th-16th centuries has come across women in every trade, legally recognized by the town guilds.

Most trades dominated by men having women participating in them the said women ame into the trade through their marriage - helping their husbands with the business, and learning the trade in the process - they were recognised as legitimately carrying on their husbands businesses, and were even allowed apprentices of their own at their husbands demise (often at a fairly young age for the women - some who refused to remarry, carrying on actively in trade until their deaths). We have found through research references to women in strenuous trades, such as blacksmithing , in addition to less harsh physical trades , running the gamut from saddlers to mercers and grocers.

In addition, there were trades that were entirely dominated by women, that were wealthy guilds, such as the 'sopers' (silk-spinners). Even in long-distance merchanting, women appear as a significant minority factor, even in businesses dominated by men - as a for instance, the steel trade in Cologne had women running a full 15% of the businesses single-handedly.

Womens 'oppression' in Western Society largely began in the 'Early Modern Era', running through the Victorian one - the labour pool of earlier eras was too small, and too fragile to allow even rigidly patriarchal societies the luxury of eliminating women from trade and business once large-scale slavery dissapeared along with Classical civilization with the Fall of Rome.

I just thought that you might find the information 'liberating' to know that women were indeed involved in trades prior to the 'Age of Enlightenment'.

If you are interested in the subject, I would recommend a book to you entitles "The Legend of Good Women", which you should find in a net search fairly easily, which deals with the subject of women and their position in society and employment, in the 14th - 16th centuries. Also good is "The Fourth Estate", which is a book covering the role of women in Medieval European Society.

['Salem Bob']

Here are some books on women sailors:

Female Tars: Women aboard ship in the age of sail; Suzanne J. Stark

Seafaring Women; Linda Grant de Paw

Women, Work and Sexual Politics in 18th century England; Bridget Hill

Iron Men and Wooden Women: Gender and seafaring in the Atlantic World; Margaret C. Creighton

The Tradition of Female Transvestism in Early Modern Europe; Rudolf M. Dekker

Amazons and Military Maids; Julie Wheelright

Granule:The life and times of Grace O'Malley; Anne Chambers

*************************

I have not read all of these; some I used as sources for a paper I wrote on English Radicalism in the 18th Century Caribbean. I highly recommend Iron Men and Wooden Women though.  Granule I got while I was in Ireland...I am not sure how to get it here.

-Billie-

Ahoy Billie Bonney!

Thanks for the interesting lists. A word of caution I would give is that many 'Womens Studies' histories are more concerned with modern political and social thought, than with the hard factual data making up the stuff of History.

I find this to be a sad case, considering that the approach used eventually dates and discredits the work, whereas a more scholarly approach would make for a more useful book in the long term. One of the first things you learn in Historical Methodology is considering the bias in any source in analysing documentation - when a bias is transparent, and in the worst cases truth is stretched beyond recognition, such books do more harm than good to the cause they are espousing. In example - there is an oft-linked to site on 'Women Warriors' that sadly gives 'documentation', that when the source is actually looked at, shows the documentation to be entirely fabricated from whole cloth. Lying about what a primary source says can only hurt the position taken by the person trying to 'document' something.

When serious research is done, and documentation is carefully sifted through, the researcher finds women involved in almost every activity under the sun. In many cases, in many societies, women have had to pursue such activities disguised as their male counterparts. In some occupations, women were *never* commonplace, and it is a terrible slight to the women who undertook such an arduous or dangerous pursuit for real, and represent it as a commonplace happening - merely to suit a modern conciet regarding the equality of women to make modern women feel better about themselves. Women in the late 19th and 20th centuries undertook a long struggle to gain the equality they currently enjoy - to present it as being the norm detracts from the strugglein the past brave women undertook to obtain it.

While 19th century society was indeed repressive to women, and earlier European society was more accepting of women in certain occupations (trade, for example), even these comparitively liberated women never enjoyed the same status in society men enjoyed, nor the same rights before the laws. It is injurious to the truth, and to the women who struggled against the odds and succeeded at occupations or professions they were nominaly barred from to represent these women as being treated as equals in society. They got what they had because they struggled for it - it was not handed to them on a silver platter.

[Captain Tito]

No doubt so many women were undocumented or recorded.

Bonny and Reade were just the most famous.

The Chinese regarded women on a higher status than did Western Europeans to boot.

All of ye good luck on searchin for more info.

['Salem Bob']

An interesting side note - I came across a late 14th century French document listing the trade guilds of Paris, and their members, and out of 101 occupations listed, women were active in 86.

Not too bad. :)

[renee]

in the magazine called "ireland of the welcomes", there is a

bronze statue of the legendary 16th century pirate queen who name was

GRACE O'MALLEY(1530-1603) of CONNAUGHT. the bronze statue is

located at the westport house in county mayo, ireland. the article was

in the may-june 2004 issue of the magazine.

[Wartooth]

Yes. Grace O'Malley is well known but not much talked about by medieval historians. Sure is an article I'd like to read though. Perhaps my local library system my have it on file. Thanks, Renee.

[lorien_stormfeather]

You might want to be looking into this here book...

Pirate Queen: the Life of Grace O’Malley 1530-1603

By Judith Cook

Tuckwell Press, 2004, £9.99

ISBN 1-86232-247-3

You can read a review of the book on Cindy Vallar's site:

Thistles and Pirates website

Also called Granuaile, this Irish lass, held something like 17 castles and had fleet of 20 ships/200 men.

[Capn_Enigma]

You can keep your Bluebeards and your Blackbeards. The most successful pirate of all time controlled a fleet of more than 1,500 ships and upwards of 80,000 sailors -- and she did it all without the help of facial hair.

More here.

[Red Maria]

Cheng I Sao could also kick serious butt!

[Patrick Hand]

When a Chinese pirate captain named Cheng married a beautiful prostitute in 1801,

OK... it is Pyracy.... and it if a Female.... but a little after the Golden Age don't you think ?

While Chang Pao led the men into battle, Cheng I Sao focused her attention on business, military strategy, and the enormous task of governing a growing body of ruffians.

[Red Maria]

OK... it is Pyracy.... and it if a Female.... but a little after the Golden Age don't you think ? >>

I didn't think this forum was limited to GAoP

. That maybe the predominated topic but not the sole topic.

While Chang Pao led the men into battle, Cheng I Sao focused her attention on business, military strategy, and the enormous task of governing a growing body of ruffians.

What this article fails to mention is that Chang Pao was her husband's lover and their adopted son. Also she did lead men into battle notably in Vietnam. I need to double check but I think it was on the Mekong River.

[hurricane]

I hardly think it matters that it was after GAoP. What, Morgan's brilliant sack of Panama didn't count because it was before it? I didn't think this section was just for GAoP history. This is a remarkable tale of piracy and success on the high seas that makes every Western pirate look like a small timer, even modern ones today.

1500 ships and 80,000 men under her command? Wow!!!!

-- Hurricane

[Red-Handed Jill]

And the Chinese government could do nothing because her fleet was larger than theirs!

And, unlike most of the male pirates, she retired from piracy rather then get captured and killed. Ran a brothel, if memory serves.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

OK, that seals it... I'm lettin Blondie my bride run things from now on!

Bo

[Iron Bess]

Yeah... read it and weep guys!!

[Red Maria]

And the Chinese government could do nothing because her fleet was larger than theirs!

And, unlike most of the male pirates, she retired from piracy rather then get captured and killed.  Ran a brothel, if memory serves.

Well you know they say when you retire you should take-up something you know to keep busy. Considering she began as a prostitute....

[Patrick Hand]

I didn't think this forum was limited to GAoP

I find it kinda interesting that almost every modern book on Pyracy tells All about female Pyrates....

Grace O'Mally, Anne Bonny, Mary Reed and Cheng I Sao, historacly "lumping" them all together.....

If I say....

Pyrates used flintlock pistols, cutlass and AK-47's....

it would be just as true, and just as historicaly distorted.....

[hurricane]

Patrick,

It would not be historically distorted if dates are put with the various weapons. Of course, that would be academic, wouldn't it. :)

-- Hurricane

PS: A play on words, not a call to arms. Just playing since some don't always know that.

[Red Maria]

I didn't think this forum was limited to GAoP

I find it kinda interesting that almost every modern book on Pyracy tells All about female Pyrates....

Grace O'Mally, Anne Bonny, Mary Reed and Cheng I Sao, historacly "lumping" them all together.....

Patrick could you please be more specific? Which books?

Thank you

[Red-Handed Jill]

It's also interesting that the two female pirate captains/leaders had careers that spanned decades. Most of the male pirate captains had careers that spanned a few years before being killed, imprisoned, etc. Women pirates were very much in the minority, but they certainly were good at it.

[oderlesseye]

Women pirates were very much in the minority, but they certainly were good at it.

Tyme to put Red-Handed Jill, Iron Bess, and Red Maria to work then says Eye!

Oderlesseye gets out lawn chair and pinacolata (with umbrella),

Awaits higher returns of profit X's 3

[Patrick Hand]

Patrick could you please be more specific? Which books?

I'm not saying these are necessarily Scholarly Works...

But in the order they were published.......

***************************************

1678.....Alexander O Expuemelin,

The Buccaneers of America

(Anne Bonny, Mary Read and Cheng I Sao wern't born yet....)

***************************************

1697.....William Dampier,

New Voyage Round the World

(Still to early for Anne Bonny, Mary Read and Cheng I Sao ....)

***************************************

1724.....Charles Johnson

A General History of the Robberies & Murders of the most Notorious Pirates

.....Anne Bonny, Mary Read

(Hey.... here's where Anne Bonny and Mary Read get introduced as Female Pyrates......)

***************************************

1837 .....Ellmas Charles

The Pirates Own Book

.....Anne Bonny, Mary Read and Cheng I Sao

***************************************

1951 .....George Woodbury

The Great Days of Piracy in the West Indies

.....Anne Bonny, Mary Read

Appendix A "Women Who Passed as Men"

***************************************

1975..... John Gilbert

The Golden Book of Buccaneers

.....Anne Bonny, Mary Read

***************************************

1978 ..... Douglas Botting

The Pirates time-Life Books

.....Anne Bonny, Mary Read

***************************************

1992 ..... Joshua Feder

Pirates

.....Anne Bonny, Mary Read and Cheng I Sao

***************************************

1995 ..... David Cordingly

Under the Black Flag

.....Grace O'Malley, Anne Bonny, Mary Read and Cheng I Sao

***************************************

1998.....Consulting Editor David Cordingly

Pirates Terror on the High Seas-from the Caribbean to the South China Sea

.....Anne Bonny, Mary Read and Cheng I Sao

***************************************

2006.....John Matthews

Pirates

.....Grace O'Malley, Anne Bonny, Mary Read, Ann Mills and Cheng I Sao

***************************************

2006.....Candlewick Press

Pirateology

.....Grace O'Malley, Anne Bonny, Mary Read

***************************************

2006.....Gail Selinger

Pirates Fascinating facts about the world/s most infamous pirates

.....Grace O'Malley, Anne Bonny, Mary Read and Cheng I Sao

***************************************

[Patrick Hand]

Just for fun....

Quick......

Name a Historical Male Pyrate that was not a Captain.....Just part of someone's crew......

Mr. Gibbs, or Will Turner don't count...........

We know the names of Captains, and the few Female Pyrates, but ......

When some two thousand pirates were terrorizing ships on both sides of the Atlantic and seriously threatening the trade of the American colonies

David Cordingly Under the Black Flag

"Some two thousand pirates"..... and unless you look it up in "A General History of the Robberies & Murders of the Most Notorious Pirates" or Court records...... Those "Some two thousand pirates" are just unknown....

But everyone knows the names of the Female Pyrates.......

Just a little disproportionate Historically isn't it....

That's why I'm being such a Poop..... we know all the Pyrate Captains, and the few Female Pyrates by name..... but dang..... I'm guessing Israel Hands will be the only real pyrate name anyone guesses.... and that's because his name was used in Treasure Island........ (He was a real Pyrate, and part of Blackbeards crew )