Daniel Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 When I think of a cutlass, the image that immediately springs to my mind is a curved short sword with a knuckle bow. However, cutlasses don't have to have knuckle bows, and they don't have to be curved; the National Maritime Museum has tons of straight cutlasses. I would propose that four things distinguish a cutlass from other swords 1. It must be a backsword - i.e., it must have only one sharp edge. It can have a false edge for the point, but if it's sharpened more than half its length on both edges, then I think you have a broadsword, not a cutlass. 2. It must be short. I'm not sure how short, but if you arbitrarily say a blade of less than 30 inches, that would cover just about every cutlass in the NMM. Beyond some length, maybe 30 inches, what you have is a saber, not a cutlass. Below some minimum blade length, you have a dirk or dagger; again, I'm not sure where the dividing line is, but 15 inches would probably be close. 3. The handle should accomodate only one hand. I.e., the Japanese wakizashi is not a cutlass, even though it's a short backsword. 4. It must have a hand guard. Some would say that you need a hand guard to have a sword at all, but I think certain Malay weapons have no hand guards and yet would be hard not to call swords. At any rate, I would think hand guard-less single-edge short blades like the machete should be distinguished from true cutlasses. I don't think the cutlass has to be a specifically naval sword, at least not at our time period. In the 18th century, the Royal Navy's logistics people didn't even call their naval swords cutlasses: they just called them swords, or swords for sea service. I have often read that a cutlass and a hanger are basically the same thing, and so far as I can find, that's true. A hanger, too, is basically a short backsword, often curved but not necessarily, often knuckle bowed but again not necessarily. But I think there is a difference in connotation between the words "cutlass" and "hanger." A "cutlass" suggests a practical, no-frills, cheap weapon. A "hanger" can be a working man's weapon too; there are many references in the Old Bailey records to ordinary street thugs and collier sailors using hangers. But "hangers" also included very high-quality gentry swords and even officer and ceremonial swords, like the early 17th century Hounslow hangers and some of the finer hunting hangers. I'm not sure it would be technically wrong to call a Hounslow hanger or an officer's hanger a "cutlass," but it would be unusual. One difficulty in defining "cutlass" is that the combination of word and weapon is almost uniquely English. The word "cutlass" comes from French coutlas, thence from Italian coltellacio and finally from Latin cultellus, but in none of those languages does it mean the short backsword that it means in English. The French word for the weapon we call "cutlass" is sabre d'abordage, boarding saber, and some equivalent of "boarding saber" is used in most European languages (Spanish sable de abordaje, Italian sciabbola d'abordaggio, German Entersäbel). The only language I know of besides English that uses a cognate of "cutlass" for a short backsword is the Dutch kortelas. So it can be hard to say if a weapon from a non-English European culture is a "cutlass," because they would use a completely unrelated word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captscurvy_nc Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 I never thought of it before. So use to using the word that the meaning never crossed my mind. Interesting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 I think the difference between the hanger and the cutlass would seem to be in the width and weight of blade, with the cutlass being bigger and heavier. There are references to cutlasses being used to clear lines and rigging during boarding actions, something that the hanger is ill designed for. I would support that with the other root of the word cutlass, that being curtal axe, from the middle French. That would indicate a heavier, chopping blade, more than just an infantry hanger. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted April 15, 2010 Share Posted April 15, 2010 Or is this a case of trying to nail down definitions that would have been meaningless at the time the words were in use for everyday objects? I'm reminded of the debate about the difference between a musketoon and a blunderbuss. Contemporary source A said they could be distinguished by length of barrel; contemporary source B said they could be distinguished by bore; contemporary source C said that a blunderbuss and a musketoon were the same thing. Cutlass: a short, (usually) single edged sword, often curved. Hanger: a short, (usually) single edged sword, often curved. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Cutlass is Oldsmobile's answer to the other makers' muscle cars. The 442 versions of the late 60's and early 70's were pretty trick. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan Jack Posted April 16, 2010 Share Posted April 16, 2010 Vought-Chance Cutlass: Another in a long line of planes built by them named after pirate-related stuff. The most famous are the F4U Corsair and A-7 Corsair II. Neither is directly related to this thread . . . Foxe, just to make sure, "cutlass" IS a period term, correct? The sword experts tell me that a cutlass (the broad heavy one we think of today) is more related to a long bladed axe than a broadsword, making it a sword-ax. As such, the name root mentioned above makes some sense. As for in-period, these were a set of terms (like others) that wasn't "pinned down" exactly and overlapped meaning w/ other terms we don't think of as overlapping today. So, there was some describing technical meaning (mean different things, literally), while others describe common use (terms overlap, even if not literally correct in their application). There are many, many terms like that today in both "proper" English-English ( for Foxe) and in American-English. -John "Tartan Jack" Wages, of South Carolina  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 16, 2010 Author Share Posted April 16, 2010 Foxe, just to make sure, "cutlass" IS a period term, correct? Absolutely period, although spelled in about 2.3 zillion different ways. In Johnson, 1726, you can find this passage: "tucking up his Shirt above his Elbow, with a Cutlass in his Hand, he, with Mitchel, went into the Captain's Cabbin, and told him, he must turn out." Johnson also writes that Kidd "used the Men very cruelly, causing them to be hoisted up by the Arms, and drubb'd with a naked Cutlash." In 1650, John Osgood bequeathed a "cutlace" to his heirs. If I remember right, the OED rejects the "curtal axe" theory of derivation, but I'd have to check to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 (edited) The 1933 OED under the word "Curtal-ax" says "A much perverted form of the word CUTLASS . . . through the intermediate perversions cut(t)le-ax, and curtelas, courtelace, CURTELACE, the peculiarities of which it combines." If so, the word "Curtal-ax" came from the word "cutlass," rather than the other way around. Edited April 22, 2010 by Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted April 22, 2010 Author Share Posted April 22, 2010 Take a gander at the sword hilt recovered from Bellamy's pirate ship Whydah, on pg. 44 of Clifford and Kinkor's book. They say it was the hilt of a cutlass. I have my doubts, though. I have looked at about a hundred cutlasses and I have never seen one that had arms of the hilt (those little C-shaped bits just forward of the grip that curve out from the grip and then in toward the blade; also called pas d'ane). Thumb rings, yes; arms of the hilt, no. Also, that grip looks a bit thin to hold the tang of a thick cutlass blade. It looks much more to me like the hilt of a small-sword or late rapier, and although pirates didn't normally use that kind of weapon, it would be worth a lot of money and would be kept as plunder if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captscurvy_nc Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 There was a simular hilt found at the Queen Anne's Revenge dig site. had a chance to see the x ray of it when they came to the NC Histor Museum (it's still encrusted inside a clump of rock and sediment). I thought the same thing when I saw it as far as the tang goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madPete Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 To me, this sword made by Matt at Baltimore Sword and Knife (made for POD) epitomizes what a cutlass is (or should be) ... See this thread Aye... Plunder Awaits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Take a gander at the sword hilt recovered from Bellamy's pirate ship Whydah, on pg. 44 of Clifford and Kinkor's book. They say it was the hilt of a cutlass. I have my doubts, though. I have looked at about a hundred cutlasses and I have never seen one that had arms of the hilt (those little C-shaped bits just forward of the grip that curve out from the grip and then in toward the blade; also called pas d'ane). Thumb rings, yes; arms of the hilt, no. Also, that grip looks a bit thin to hold the tang of a thick cutlass blade. It looks much more to me like the hilt of a small-sword or late rapier, and although pirates didn't normally use that kind of weapon, it would be worth a lot of money and would be kept as plunder if nothing else. Yup, that's a smallsword hilt if ever there was one. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Take a gander at the sword hilt recovered from Bellamy's pirate ship Whydah, on pg. 44 of Clifford and Kinkor's book. They say it was the hilt of a cutlass. I have my doubts, though. I have looked at about a hundred cutlasses and I have never seen one that had arms of the hilt (those little C-shaped bits just forward of the grip that curve out from the grip and then in toward the blade; also called pas d'ane). Thumb rings, yes; arms of the hilt, no. Also, that grip looks a bit thin to hold the tang of a thick cutlass blade. It looks much more to me like the hilt of a small-sword or late rapier, and although pirates didn't normally use that kind of weapon, it would be worth a lot of money and would be kept as plunder if nothing else. Yup, that's a smallsword hilt if ever there was one. No question about it. See here for an example. Now, what does it mean that it was found on a pirate ship? Did a pirate use or was it taken as loot and stored with the other treasure? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain McCool Posted April 26, 2010 Share Posted April 26, 2010 Of course, there were also stouter bladed swords built on smallsword hilts, like the french "Epee Du Soldat." Captain Jack McCool, landlocked pirate extraordinaire, Captain of the dreaded prairie schooner Ill Repute, etc. etc. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ "That’s what a ship is, you know. It’s not just a keel, and a hull, and a deck, and sails. That’s what a ship needs. But what a ship is… what the Black Pearl really is… is freedom." -Captain Jack Sparrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentleman of Fortune Posted May 15, 2010 Share Posted May 15, 2010 I jump in with Foxe on this one... In the time frame we are talking 1680-1720 The "Cutlass" was defining itself. It was the result of needing a specific style weapon for its intended purpose. A hundred years later, its defined, and a Cutlass, is a Cutlass... or what a non-historical geek would think of when they hear the word. At the same time in history, sailors trousers are being defined. Slops, Slop Hose, Sailor's Trousers, Petticoat Breeches, Breeches all are evolving into what 100 years later are ubiquitously known as slops. Its interesting stuff though. Come aboard my pirate re-enacting site http://www.gentlemenoffortune.com/ Where you will find lots of information on building your authentic Pirate Impression! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Maddox Roberts Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Sword terminology for all of history is a tremendous headache. Earlier periods were just not as anal as we are concerning terminology and separating things into discrete categories. The Royal Navy in Napoleonic times was likely to call a cutlass a "broadsword." Even now, just search your dictionary for a definition of "sword." Usually it will say a "long-bladed dagger," while it defines a dagger as a "short-bladed sword." The presence or absence of a guard or knucklebow is irrelevant. The Cossack/Caucasus shasqa has a long blade and no trace of a guard, as do many other Asian designs. In the Carabbean to this day the weapon/tool we call a "machete" (Latin American term) is called a "cutlass." As far as I am concerned, a cutlass is a shortish sword of whatever design suitable for close combat on a ship's deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wenfaer Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Kilo Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Here is the cutlass I'll be getting, and I think it is sold for a good price. http://www.goldduo.com/swords-military-c-865_872/navy-cutlass-sword-926762-p-647060 Admiral Kilo hath spoken. [Jolly Roger pending- if ye're willing to draw mine check the thread I made for it {this is a link}) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Mark Morgan Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 (edited) I'm coming to this discussion late in the game, but just to put my two cents in, a lot of what people THINK of when we say the word cutlass has been shaped by the movies. And the reason the pirates (and the sailors on the HMS Bounty, and about anyone else who used a sword at sea during the golden age of Hollwood) used the classic Cup-Hilted Cutlass was that the studios has bought out the Navy Cutlasses that were surplus from the Civil War. So art retro-fired back into history and no one can imagine a pirate without a cup-hilted cutlass. As to the cutlass vs. hanger debate, I think cutlass was probably not a universal term during the GAoP and is one we are imposing on a class of weapons from our perspective. I have a English seaman's sword that I would call a cutlass, c.1690. It has a dog-head pommel, decorated cast brass grip, shell guard, and curved falchion-type blade stamped with fleur-de-lys mark. But the Board of Ordinance called it a "brass hilted hanger." It was likely part of a procurment in 1692, as suggested by inventory entries at the Tower of London. Other contemporary references to "dog-headed hangers" suggest this example as a ship's issue cutlass of the period. This sword is of a type found in period sea wrecks dating to 1694 and 1703. (See Gilkerson, Boarders Away, With Steel. p. 74, no. 3.) BTW, Gilkerson, (who is not always right) accounts this way for the cutlass etymology: "from the Latin cultellus, for short sword the Oxford dictionary notes the first appearance in old English as curleax in 1579, and another spelling as court-lace in 1594. By the 18th century the word had come to be generally applied to the short hangers favored by seamen, and it is seen in other spellings such as cutlash in contempoary documents." (p. 72) It was also well known for ordinance boards to secure infantry hangers for seagoing use. This happened in the case of the English 1742 Pattern Infantry Hanger, which was appropriated and marked for Naval use in the 1770's. In 1755 the Swedish Admiralty ordered its ship's issue cutlass to be the Army's Infantry Briquet of 1748. (The design was very similar to the British 1742.) This brass-hilted hanger would remain the primary Swedish Naval cutlass through the Napoleonic Wars. You say cutlass, I say hanger, you say tomato...... And I've run you through! You can see my cutlass (or my hanger) ;^)~ here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/49474691@N04/4664522043/sizes/z/in/set-72157624192492852/ Black Mark Morgan Edited August 4, 2010 by Black Mark Morgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 It is confusing that the "cutlass" is older term than the cuttlas sword we know At least if we believe what is said here http://www.thepirateking.com/historical/cutlass.htm "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 How are you defining "cutlass sword we know"? Some medieval falchions, and 16th century hunting swords, are a cutlass in all but name. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Do you have any pictures? "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 These are some good examples: http://www.liveaucti...m/item/10260852 http://www.christies...51&sid=&page=10 [edit: huh. I had a good icon that showed a falchion from 1440, but can't post it.] Collection catalogs are better, but I don't have any. I have seen some in the library, and that was enough to satisfy me, but I'm not at the library now. "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 These are reproductions rather than originals but you get the idea: Some originals from the late 16th - early 17th century: Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swashbuckler 1700 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 So what is all that "cutlass was born during 17th C" junk I have read? "I have not yet Begun To Fight!"John Paul Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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