Who Are We?

[talleman1]

Well after scrolling through allot of dribble on PC pirate, I say just go all out, let what you know and how much you drink determine what type of Pirate ye be. Sugar coating history is left those who can read and write about it but we live it and live we should, of course with the confines the laws in each state, but aside from that give it what you got and go balls out or go to that sweet home. I intend to be hung by the neck until dead because no man will defeat me in the use of swords. I live life much more in pirate mode than ever, I guess being poor has that effect but I am not a stupid nor dirty thug I use my wits and skills to gain advantage. So that is my take on this long debate.

[Tartan Jack]

Watch now much you challenge me to drink . . .

While not really a "heavy drinker" (only drink rarely, really) and only one real hangover, ever, . . .

At Paynestown, I unknowingly drank 2 men till they passed out (they secretly were trying to match me and "plugging" me w/ drink), being told about it only in the wee hours of the night/morning before going to bed. I was still almost sober, shooting Mickey Souris' musket the next day.

I think "first person" and "third person" could both work depending on specific context, how done, and audience. I've done a bit of both, even flipping from one to the other when that better gets the history and idea across.

Edited April 2, 2010 by Tartan Jack

[hurricane]

Wow, now there's a change. For once I'm the one who stayed on topic and didn't stir the pot. :)

C'mon Hurricane, let's have an argument, it'll be just like the old days

Ah, don't tempt me... perhaps we need to talk about bucket boots here and really get it rolling. Or how about eye patches, peglegs and parrots (sounds like a good title for a song.) :)

-- Hurricane

[Fox]

Ah, don't tempt me... perhaps we need to talk about bucket boots here and really get it rolling. Or how about eye patches, peglegs and parrots (sounds like a good title for a song.) :)

A-singing,

Eye patches, peglegs, and parrots,

People who wear them should be lined up and then shot!

I don't care if your bucket-boots are heeled or vamped,

Don't bring that s**t into my living history camp...

There was a jolly pirate, with an earring made of gold,

He thought it made him look the part, whatever he'd been told.

So we pinned him down and beat him, an authenticists' attack,

We tore it out his ear and he was never invited back.

Eye patches, peglegs...

There was a jolly maiden, who asked to join our crew,

We said 'you seem the right sort, so we would love you to,

But if you turn up to our camp as a made-for-TV tart,

We'll never let you in our gang, 'cos you'll never look the part.'

Eye patches, peglegs...

If you've got a cooler, to keep you beer on ice,

And if your sail-tarp shelter is devoid of rats and lice,

If you don't have scabies, typhoid or pox too,

You never be allowed to join, so go and find another crew.

Eye patches, peglegs...

So dress as a sailor in a tarry jacket blue

With canvas slops and waistcoat, and they must be handstitched too.

Or go for Royal Navy garb, and sleep upon the deck

In a grey kersey jacket from the A-S-Contract specs.

Eye patches, peglegs...

And if you meet our standards you can join the waiting list,

For a vacancy in our elite, a treat not to be missed.

We'll share with you the secret of life, we've found it out,

And we'll talk with great authority on stuff we know f**k all about.

Eye-patches, peglegs...

[Tartan Jack]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Hawkyns]

Hey Mission You asked about which definition of living history to use. That question really threw me, because to me it was obvious, but so ingrained that the question didn't make sense. The definition I use is the one used by the museums and living history sites- Plimoth Plantation, Jamestown, Old Sturbridge Village, places like that. Some are First person, some are third, but that is the standard that I've always used.

Hawkyns

[Capt. Sterling]

Ah, don't tempt me... perhaps we need to talk about bucket boots here and really get it rolling. Or how about eye patches, peglegs and parrots (sounds like a good title for a song.) :)

A-singing,

Eye patches, peglegs, and parrots,

People who wear them should be lined up and then shot!

I don't care if your bucket-boots are heeled or vamped,

Don't bring that s**t into my living history camp...

There was a jolly pirate, with an earring made of gold,

He thought it made him look the part, whatever he'd been told.

So we pinned him down and beat him, an authenticists' attack,

We tore it out his ear and he was never invited back.

Eye patches, peglegs...

There was a jolly maiden, who asked to join our crew,

We said 'you seem the right sort, so we would love you to,

But if you turn up to our camp as a made-for-TV tart,

We'll never let you in our gang, 'cos you'll never look the part.'

Eye patches, peglegs...

If you've got a cooler, to keep you beer on ice,

And if your sail-tarp shelter is devoid of rats and lice,

If you don't have scabies, typhoid or pox too,

You never be allowed to join, so go and find another crew.

Eye patches, peglegs...

So dress as a sailor in a tarry jacket blue

With canvas slops and waistcoat, and they must be handstitched too.

Or go for Royal Navy garb, and sleep upon the deck

In a grey kersey jacket from the A-S-Contract specs.

Eye patches, peglegs...

And if you meet our standards you can join the waiting list,

For a vacancy in our elite, a treat not to be missed.

We'll share with you the secret of life, we've found it out,

And we'll talk with great authority on stuff we know f**k all about.

Eye-patches, peglegs...

Brilliant...

[hurricane]

LMAO!!!!!

Ask and you shall receive. I think it'll be a big hit, Foxe. Now all we need to do is argue about the period instruments needed to record it. Then it's off to Total Request Live on the LHC (Living History Channel).

-- Hurricane

[Mission]

Sung to the tune "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" no doubt.

Hawkyns, based on what I've seen, I'll bet if you could get a definition of "Living History" from every museum that purports to engage in it, you would find more than a little variance. From what you've said, I have the idea that talking in third person is not living history to you. You have to admit, that speaking in third person is not engaging in immersion - it is the antithesis of it.

[Ransom]

Ah, don't tempt me... perhaps we need to talk about bucket boots here and really get it rolling. Or how about eye patches, peglegs and parrots (sounds like a good title for a song.) :)

A-singing,

Eye patches, peglegs, and parrots,

People who wear them should be lined up and then shot!

I don't care if your bucket-boots are heeled or vamped,

Don't bring that s**t into my living history camp...

There was a jolly pirate, with an earring made of gold,

He thought it made him look the part, whatever he'd been told.

So we pinned him down and beat him, an authenticists' attack,

We tore it out his ear and he was never invited back.

Eye patches, peglegs...

There was a jolly maiden, who asked to join our crew,

We said 'you seem the right sort, so we would love you to,

But if you turn up to our camp as a made-for-TV tart,

We'll never let you in our gang, 'cos you'll never look the part.'

Eye patches, peglegs...

If you've got a cooler, to keep you beer on ice,

And if your sail-tarp shelter is devoid of rats and lice,

If you don't have scabies, typhoid or pox too,

You never be allowed to join, so go and find another crew.

Eye patches, peglegs...

So dress as a sailor in a tarry jacket blue

With canvas slops and waistcoat, and they must be handstitched too.

Or go for Royal Navy garb, and sleep upon the deck

In a grey kersey jacket from the A-S-Contract specs.

Eye patches, peglegs...

And if you meet our standards you can join the waiting list,

For a vacancy in our elite, a treat not to be missed.

We'll share with you the secret of life, we've found it out,

And we'll talk with great authority on stuff we know f**k all about.

Eye-patches, peglegs...

BRILLIANT! :P

Now, where's that bucket boot thread! LOL

[Red-Handed Jill]

That was priceless, Foxe. You're a freakin' genius!!

[captscurvy_nc]

Love the song!

[Bright]

I am not a pirate; Im an acquisition agent and a salvage specialist the crew were already dead and the ship was a burring when we first saw her. We tried to render assistance as the law of the sea would demand of any good mariner, but the rum was already gone and we found no survivors to render aid. We could not stop the fire so we saved what we could before the fire got to their powder magazine. Ask any man on board and they tell yea the same ;-}

Edited April 3, 2010 by Bright

[Dorian Lasseter]

OK, Michael, why "after hours"? What is magic about the public leaving? I'll be honest, I haven't seen one pirate gathering/festival/reenactment yet that goes 24/7. And that disturbs me. We all talk about our personae, whether it be the purist or the fantasist, but we drop them like dirty socks when the public is gone. If we are so enamoured about what we do, why is it so hard to stay in that persona beyond the public time. Qhite honestly, from other periods that I do, it is after the public, with all its non period clothing and questions, goes home, that we can really get into being who we want to be. Some of the best times I've had have been sitting around the campfire, singing period songs till way past midnight, or arguing period politics until we fall over. And there's nothing like a good old fashioned protestant vs catholic argument in period to give you the feel of a Thirty Years War camp. A tankard of cider, a good pipe, and a good period discussion or song until you crawl off to sleep in your pile of straw is what makes the hobby.

Hawkyns

Master Hawkyns, you forgot a rousing game of cabbage-ball as well!

I also agree, there's no reason why things should change 'after hours'. I grant the concessions pointed out about the modern 'musts' such as medical items, etc.

To point out one event I attended many years ago... it was an ECW event in North Carolina I think... We spent the weekend, from friday night til sunday afternoon in period, in kit, in the cold, mud, etc... It was one of my best memories of reenacting. The only time this changed was when some of us went off site for dinner, in kit as we had no extra clothes. I had a change to go home for sunday, that was it.

[MarkG]

My experience of the gore of reenactment is that the public will accept a hanging, but draw the line at launching babies from trebuchets...

Heck - I draw the line at launching babies from trebuchets. They don't have enough mass to penetrate.

Mark

[MarkG]

Well, I'm going to throw this into the discussion, just because..

This is directed at those few who purport to want the full experience. They want to wear PC clothes, talk PC, shun nampy-pamby pirates, and get fully into the "head space" of a GAoP sailor.

Alrighty then..

Remember, this is a "Sod the public, we do this for ourselves, Total Experience event. So, in MHO this is what you would be required to do.

A) Work a ship — This is the biggy. Are you physically fit enough to climb rigging, sweat a line, haul in canvas and perform any other task, including basic maintenance? You would do this for weeks, night or day, good weather or bad, calm seas or rough. You would do this with little sleep, poor food, and do your "business" using a real ship's head.

Letter B (I keep getting a smiley face) Weapons — Sword, cutlass, boarding ax, whatever. Do you have the mental and physical skill to use said weapon with the intent of inflicting bodily harm, while at the same time defending yourself from someone with the same or greater skill, intent in inflicting bodily harm on you?

C) Black powder — Pistols, blunderbuss, etc. Can you break it down, clean it, put it back together, load it, aim, and fire, and hit something other than the broad side of a barn?

D) Guns — Can you load, fire, swab, and reload a cannon, swivel gun, or rail gun?

E) Hand-to-Hand — When the cannons are still, you have fired you last ball, and your cutlass is wedged into someone's ribcage, could you defend yourself fighting hand-to-hand, tooth and nail, against someone trying to exterminate you?

So, step up lads, don't be shy. Who amongst you can truly "Walk the Walk" of a GAoP sailor? Especially point A. Come on, you're a pirate b'Gawd. If ye can't work a ship, then what bloody good are ye? If ye can't work a ship, then your total experience is a bloody sham!

A) Yes. I've worked as a gunner on the Providence, the Quinnipiac, and the Half Moon. Hauled lines, stood watches in the freezing dawn, fired broadsides. As an Idler, I don't have to go aloft, but beyond that, yes. Food- lived on bully beef and biscuit when I've been in the woods for a week or so. The head? Talk to the Coast Guard. they have rules about that.

Yes. Been teaching swordplay for 20 plus years. Cutlass, broadsword, and rapier. No masks, no fancy armor, just blunted steel and bruises. and it is NOT choreographed. Working from period 16th/17th c manuals.

C) Yes. Handgonne, wheellock, matchlock, flintlock. Fired them all, cleaned them all, stripped and done maintainance on them. With the matchlock, smoothbore, unpatched, I can get 5 inch groups on our 50 yard range. Won the shooting competition at St. Mary's Cittie a bunch of times. Does that count?

D) Yes. I own 4 cannon. I've built carriages, both land and sea, for all of them. I've commanded land batteries of nine guns, and gundecks of 4 guns. Worked the orlop deck on the Half Moon on my knees, with the end of the rammer going under water as the ship heeled. Been artillery safety officer more times than I can count.

E) Yes. Our swordplay instruction includes hand to hand, grappling, whatever is needed.

Next?

Hawkyns

Worked a ship? Check. It's been a while since I've been aloft but I can and have done it. I've also had my turn at the whipstaff and sailed my own small boat.

Weapons - cannon crew? check. Long arms? check. Small arms? Check.

Edged weapons (blunted)? Check. Hand to hand? Check.

Mark

[Fox]

That was priceless, Foxe. You're a freakin' genius!!

Nope (well, maybe) just a guy with a sense of humour and a realistic idea of what I do.

My regular pirating trousers are made from hemp canvas, which I went to great lengths to source, with an identical weave to (OOP) 18thC sail cloth. They are cut in the same manner as period breeches, but longer (which, in the absence of any extant trousers from the period seems most logical). They are stitched with waxed hemp sail thread, with the regulation number of stitches per inch for Royal Navy topsails (figuring that would be the size of stich used by a sailor used to sewing such canvas). I wore them at work, so they are spattered with Stockholm tar, in the correct places for someone who's been working on a wooden sailing vessel. They look correct, they feel correct, they even smell correct. In fact, I would be comfortable challenging anyone to come up with a more authentic piece of reenactment clothing. BUT, ultimately, at the weekend I dress up like a pirate - how seriously can I really take myself?

[silas thatcher]

foxe -- waxed hemp sail thread ?? where would one get ahold of such an animal ?? one article ( provided by dutch) mentioned using "the finest english linen thread" for sails...

was hemp sail thread used more than linen thread ?? none of the books i have mention the thread used for sails, just the general overall construction of the sails... ( i may want a better book ) one of my projects for later is to make a fairly accurate sail, a small one, yet a sail none the less, so any thought s are appreciated...

[Fox]

I bought half a dozen balls of both hemp and linen thread from an old chandlers shop that was closing down locally - I'm down to one ball of each now

I imagine that such stuff can probably be found via the magic of Google though, and good luck with your sail.

[hurricane]

That was priceless, Foxe. You're a freakin' genius!!

Nope (well, maybe) just a guy with a sense of humour and a realistic idea of what I do.

My regular pirating trousers are made from hemp canvas, which I went to great lengths to source, with an identical weave to (OOP) 18thC sail cloth. They are cut in the same manner as period breeches, but longer (which, in the absence of any extant trousers from the period seems most logical). They are stitched with waxed hemp sail thread, with the regulation number of stitches per inch for Royal Navy topsails (figuring that would be the size of stich used by a sailor used to sewing such canvas). I wore them at work, so they are spattered with Stockholm tar, in the correct places for someone who's been working on a wooden sailing vessel. They look correct, they feel correct, they even smell correct. In fact, I would be comfortable challenging anyone to come up with a more authentic piece of reenactment clothing. BUT, ultimately, at the weekend I dress up like a pirate - how seriously can I really take myself?

Exactly! And we are all in the same boat, Foxe.

-- Hurricane

[Hawkyns]

ultimately, at the weekend I dress up like a pirate - how seriously can I really take myself?

Or, I'm a pirate/smuggler/privateer/reiver/soldier who dresses in funny clothes through the week to support my reality.

Granted, being a fulltime sutler and craftsman makes that a bit easier. It just depends which reality you prefer to live in.

Hawkyns

[Fox]

Ah, reality, there's an easily blurred concept

I've spent the last ten years working full time on a square-rigger, much of it 'in harness'. But I still have a cell-phone and use the internet. Frankly, I'm really not that sure that I'm sure what reality really is...

[hurricane]

I agree. I write for a living, haven't worked in a real office for 17 years and live in a fantasy world both at work and play. So I hardly know what reality is these days.

-- Hurricane

[HarborMaster]

Who we are is kind of a broad based question. Some here are in a group and seek rules and authenticity . Some judge themselves and others by their own rules. Others are into it just for fun and not authentic at all. Others think its a party. And others believe its about sailing ., (tho most dont sail ) . Others think its an extension of freedom or an escape from reality.

Without a group club or charter to follow ., I am enjoying being me ) . Who are we ? I think its apparent in our actions and way of life in our daily routine. How you rise to the occasion of life itself and how we live it defines your character really. What do you live and work for ? ., what are your dreams ? ., your passions ? and are you aftering them ? And whats more important are you living it?

This has been a pretty good read for me ., Since we are all different I enjoy the different points of view.

Just some thoughts.

Hurricane I admire your last post ., I am so there brother.

Edited April 4, 2010 by HarborMaster

[oderlesseye]

Eye would rather have this kind of discussion in person with those who are truly interested ~