Who Are We?

[Ransom]

Who am I?

As for portraying the "real deal, lowly sailor" I'm sorry, but we are too well-fed, too clear of complexion, have mouthfuls of pretty teeth, and are way too healthy in general, to be taken seriously.

Ha! I'm slimmer than the owner of the 17thC sailor's outfit in the Museum of London, have black-powder embedded in my face, am missing five teeth (tea, smokes, and hard-tack), scars over both eyes, broken nose, callouses on my hands with embedded tar, grey hairs in my beard since I was about 25, and a gammy leg. But then I work on a ship and had a dissolute youth, so maybe I'm just showing off...

:angry: Okay, there is always an exception to every rule...well done!

[captscurvy_nc]

So do my numerous scars from back surgery and hip replacement along with the slight limp I have on my right side now make me more of a realistic pirate? Sorry, it was funny to me at least.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

*sigh* ever had an echo return several months or years after you spoke? I have portrayed the real deal bad guy since I started into this wacky hobby, (because I have real-life experience to guide me) only to be ostracized and rebuked repeatedly for it (my favorite was when I dragged a feild-dressed road-killed deer into camp and processed it in my camp in full public view). I tried to bring up the lack of horses for realistic portrayal several years ago and got shot down due to insurace regs, and now there's a big push to bring horses into events. Several years ago I was getting ready to rebuild that blunderbuss of mine, and damn the flak I got for wanting to carry one of those FARBY things ("nobody carried those on the frontier" as I was then told). HAH! now there's probably more buss's than ever really existed. I have asked this question of so many people so many times I gave up trying to find out why history had to be clean years ago. Good luck with that. Funny how fickle folks are. :angry:

Bo

[Ransom]

So do my numerous scars from back surgery and hip replacement along with the slight limp I have on my right side now make me more of a realistic pirate? Sorry, it was funny to me at least.

LOL Only if I can count my lung surgery scar (looks like I've been cut in half), my hysterectomy scar, various puncture wound scars where chest tubes were inserted (look kinda like musket ball sized scars...very appropriate), and a rakish scar on the bottom of my chin, where I fell while rollerskating as a kid. :angry:

Oh, Gawd, I hope this thread doesn't degenerate to a "I'll show you my scars, if you show me yours!"

Oh, and Bo, we now have horses at Ojai. Started year before last. 'Course, their riders are dressed in the wrong period (Elizabethan), but hey, it's a start.

[Bright]

Adopt one on account ;-}

Congratulations on your decision to adopt a Brethren! Many of these fascinating creatures are in need of good homes where they will be loved and cared for. While keeping a Brethren can be expensive, time-consuming, and sometimes confusing, the results can be well worth all the effort. A well turned out Brethren who is happy and healthy is amazing to watch in action. The guidelines below will help you care for your new charge, but they are only guidelines. Every Brethren is quite unique and you should get to know your Brethren's personal quirks, preferences and skills.

INTRODUCTION

The most important step in caring for your Brethren is selecting the right one. Brethrens come in many varieties. You will find them of both sexes, and in every imaginable size, color, age, health and plumage. But, far more important than their physical differences are the differences in their personalities. Every Brethren has a very unique set of skills, preferences and attitudes, and you need to take these into consideration as you make your choice. If you have a nervous condition, a Daredevil Brethren is not for you. Likewise, do not adopt a Fighter Brethren unless you have a large yard in which he or she can chase around other Brethrens with a sword. If you have small children in the house, you might prefer to adopt a Brethren other than the Arms Collector, and if you like your nights silent, keep in mind that Stitching Brethrens are known to stay up quite late, stitching away with there cloth, punctuated by occasional loud bouts of cursing.

FOOD & DRINK

Once you have selected a Brethren and brought him or her home, your first concern may be, "What do I feed this strange creature?" Luckily, most Brethrens are not picky about what they eat, and indeed, will consume with relish most anything you offer them. Do not be afraid to offer your Brethren exotic or strange foods. They have a highly devolved sense of adventure and will likely at least try whatever it is. Keep in mind, that through some strange quirk, your Brethren will enjoy almost any food more if it is presented on a stick. Your Brethren requires large quantities of grog. Your Brethren will want large quantities of beer. There is a very fine balance between the two that you must find to keep your Brethren (and in cases of more belligerent Brethrens, yourself) happy and healthy. Brethrens are very affectionate creatures, and will often pillage and plunder for treats. Favorite treats tend towards beer or nice liquor, though your Brethren may have different favorites. Recently, several varieties of Brethren have developed a taste for wine, so you may wish to try that as well.

SLEEP

While your Brethren may seem to have inexhaustible supplies of energy, they need a good night's sleep like any other creature. When they are having fun, but are exhausted, usually at the end of a pillaging party, they may behave much like a 4-year-old, insisting on staying up and pluner, "just a few more minutes." It is advised that you be firm with your Brethren and insist that they clime back in their hammock or rack, It is also advised that this will almost never work, and when it does, Brethren goodbyes have been know to take upwards to two hours at a large gathering. Sit down near the dock and have another drink.

Adornment

Brethrens take great joy in adorning both themselves and others and can take hours to prepare in the morning. Brethren females, in particular will often need the help of others in preparing for the day. While they may seem inconsequential or frivolous to you, each pin, knot, and accessory is very important to your Brethren. When your Brethren is being slow in the morning, exhortations of "Hurry up!" will not speed matters along. "What can is the tide is going out much more efficiently. That being said, by the end of that self-same day, your Brethren may be unrecognizably dirty, disheveled and grungy, though likely quite happy. While Brethrens appreciate good fragrances, like sleep, this is not always something they feel is required. If your Brethren shows no inclination to bathe after a long day, helping them undress and drawing a bath or starting the shower for them may encourage them to get clean. Please note that your Brethren will take great joy in all their clothing and accessories, and will constantly want to be adding to the horde. Every once in a while, please go through all your Brethrens "garb" with them and help them to let go of pieces they no longer wear. Promising to donate the pieces to another Brethren will help ease the pain of separation, as will offering to replace it with something the Brethren likes better. New garb can work as a treat even better than beer or rum. Under no circumstances get rid of anything from a Brethrens garb without their knowledge and permission unless you want your sweet happy Brethren to instantly transform into Furious Rabid Fighter Brethren and attempt to take off your head.

COMMUNICATING WITH YOUR BRETHREN

Brethrens are extremely intelligent, and will likely understand everything you say, possibly in several languages. It is far more likely that you will not understand your Brethren when they are speaking in seafarer, Gaelic, Romany or some other obscure or not so obscure language. Also, they can get quite animated when speaking about their favorite raid or conquest. The correct response to almost anything from, " Aye or a loud exclamation of "HUZZAH!" This is a Brethren sound of joy and excitement, something you wish to hear often. The second is "Head." Your Brethren is asking where the bathroom is, and you'd best show them quickly unless you want to be cleaning up Brethren messes. Eliminating in garb can be a difficult and time consuming process. All other terms can usually be picked up with familiarity.

YOUR BRETHREN AND PLAY

Brethrens have a highly developed sense of play and will often play any opportunity they get. The idea of what is play varies greatly from one Brethren to the next, though they will almost always be happier to play in groups. Some may enjoy contact , some fencing, some equestrian pursuits, and some sailing. However nearly all Brethrens, whether or not they are skilled, thoroughly enjoy the arts of Music and Flirting. Given a good tune and the opportunity to sing, stomp or clap along, most Brethrens will be quite happy. Likewise, what may seem to the untrained observer as heavy duty sexual harassment is usually two Brethrens who have missed each other's company greeting one another. Unless your Brethren looks truly upset, it is better to leave him or her alone in these situations. See more under the Breeding section. Your Brethren also loves toys. Amongst Brethrens, favored toys may be sharp, shiny, pointy, sparkly, made of wood, leather, metal, pottery or fur. Get to know your Brethren to discover his or her particular preferences.

ILLNESS, INJURY, AND KEEPING YOUR BRETHREN HEALTHY

For some reason not yet determined by modern science, Brethrens seem to have a slightly greater concentration of diseases, which range from irritating to debilitating, than those not of the breed. Common ailments can include hypoglycemia,scurvy, fibromyalgia, MS, diabetes, osteoporosis and a range of bum knees, trick elbows and the like. These will likely only slow your Brethren down, not stop them completely. Your Brethren and others around him or her are usually well advised on the maladies in the group and will band together to take care of one of their number that is ill or injured, so that they can all return to the fun as soon as possible. An injured Brethren is for some reason fairly happy. They do like to show off gruesome scars and talk about their gory wounds. Should your Brethren become injured, your best course of action is to simply dress the wound, give them a drink of water and then your Brethren will go back to whatever it was doing. Except in the cases of extreme injury, they tend to be a hardy breed. To keep your Brethren as healthy as possible, make sure that he or she drinks plenty of water, gets lots of rest and exercise and limit their consumption of fried food and alcoholic drink. Keep the supplies for dealing with heat stroke, sunburn, dehydration and hypothermia on hand, as these are the most frequent complaints. Make your Brethren wear sunscreen. He or she will protest this. Make them do it anyway. Make them reapply frequently and when they get burned anyway, make them put on Aloe gel. They will protest this as well. Insist. While Brethrens are extremely intelligent, sometimes they're not very smart.

BREEDING YOUR BRETHREN

Nearly all Brethrens love children, whether or not they have one of their own. They like to play with children, talk to children and show children things that interest them as Brethren. The adult Brethrens overdeveloped sense of play makes them perfect companions for children, barring a tendency amongst the entire breed to curse. A Brethren child very nearly is raised by a village and may have dozens of Aunties and Uncles not related to them by blood scattered all over the the seven seas. Despite decades of observation by many interested parties, no one has yet determined a successful program for breeding Brethrens. Their sense of high drama, passionate natures, and overly affectionate friendships have clouded the issue so deeply that it is still a mystery how they manage to breed at all. So, should you wish to breed your Brethren, it is suggested that you adopt an already mated pair. Even that is no guarantee of success. You Brethren may have its own ideas about breeding. The best course of action to take should this happen is to stand back and observe your Brethren closely. In the event of a heartbreak step in and feed your Brethren his or her favorite treats. While this will probably not heal your Brethren, it will make them more pleasant to be around until they find another potential mate.

CONCLUSION

While the above may make adopting a Brethren seem daunting, it is an enterprise with great rewards. They are attractive, affectionate creatures, who will brighten your life for many years to come. Thank you for your interest.

[Capt. Sterling]

Adopt one on account ;-}

keep in mind that Stitching Brethrens are known to stay up quite late, stitching away with there cloth, punctuated by occasional loud bouts of cursing.

Damnation I have a bloody stalker wandering about my home...

[callenish gunner]

A couple of years ago at Beaufort, NC Dutch and I did a bit of business that we used as a diversion while Sterling and the Archangels prepared their "hanging". The flogging was done with the visual and graphic effects of an actual flogging. It was simulated and safe, but with the effect of bloody stripes coming up on the prisoner's back even many of the reenactors were bothered by it. We had kept the effect secret from most of the participants and we had so called hardened pirates on the verge of rebellion for seeing this done in public. The idea of witnessing a public flogging thrilled most of the audience until they actually saw the special effect of seeing blood and thrashing and finally physical collapse. The modern audience were shocked by the cruelty that would have been fairly commonplace in period to almost every common person( most of the kids still loved it). <br><br>We have, as a society, sanitized or Disney-ized by most of the public perceptions brought on by Hollywood. Just as they got the costumes wrong they have watered down the history so much so that the general public wouldn't recognize it if it smacked them in the face. They have placed pirates on some ivory pedestals that create misconceptions that we could only wish we could overcome. Keeping in character is one thing but, explanation of what we portray is also important

The other issue is the circumstances of the reenactors and the fantasy pirates that show up at the same events.

Edited March 31, 2010 by callenish gunner

[captscurvy_nc]

So do my numerous scars from back surgery and hip replacement along with the slight limp I have on my right side now make me more of a realistic pirate? Sorry, it was funny to me at least.

LOL Only if I can count my lung surgery scar (looks like I've been cut in half), my hysterectomy scar, various puncture wound scars where chest tubes were inserted (look kinda like musket ball sized scars...very appropriate), and a rakish scar on the bottom of my chin, where I fell while rollerskating as a kid.

Oh, Gawd, I hope this thread doesn't degenerate to a "I'll show you my scars, if you show me yours!"

Oh, and Bo, we now have horses at Ojai. Started year before last. 'Course, their riders are dressed in the wrong period (Elizabethan), but hey, it's a start.

Well if you remember the last time you had me as Blackbeard at Ojai we had Queen Elizabeth there as well with full court which was difficult to explain to people time line wise but I just told them she looked really good for her age

[Mission]

But on the other hand, I tend to enjoy interpretation (3rd person) more than "in character" talking. Although I find 1st person has its charms, I just find 1st person too draining emotionally. Perhaps i get too wrapped up in a persona when I do it? And if that is the case, my shying away from that aspect of the hobby is likely a sort of psychological self-protection/self-preservation? But that is only a guess, Red Jessi or Mission or one of the other students or practitioners of psychology might have an interesting insight there?

I tend to think of it as being a part of your personality to a degree. Some people love to act, others don't. People are people. Many of you already know I am personally not much of a first person re-enactor. Nor do I want to be - and I'm good with that. (Although I think it's sort of an Intovert thing, myself. From my Haunted House experiences, I know that if I find an enjoyable aspect of taking on a character, I can do it quite well. Although I do eventually find it quite exhausting like you, Michael. About three hours of that and you can stick a fork in me. (Again, this is often referred to in the MBTI lit. as an Introvert trait.)

To counter Hawkins statement, I can (and have) produce(d) evidence of period pirates & buccaneers forcing priests to hold mass on their ships for the crew, pirates going out of their way to protect enemy church members and being most solicitous to enemy women and aged prisoners. We even have an example of a gentleman turned pirate. (Ineffectual though he was.) So you can be immersed in the PC persona and still behave differently than the stereotypical historical "bad pirate" if that's what you want. There's evidence for it. Like I keep saying, people are people and it takes all sorts of personalities and philosophies to make up any social group - including a gang of pirates. There's lots of evidence for a wide variety of hisorically accurate interpretations if historical interpretation is your goal.

[Mission]

The other issue is the circumstances of the reenactors and the fantasy pirates that show up at the same events.

I don't know about anyone else, but I quite enjoy they events where the two commingle. PiP is still my favorite event and it is so in part because we have both non-PC and PC re-enactors working together.

Ultimately, when it comes to this, I think it is up to the organizers to set down the rules. If an event is stated as being PC, then the non-PC folks should respect the effort and comply if they want to be an integral part of it. OTOH, when paying public members show up with their kids and wear foam pirate hats and plastic swords or Jack Sparrow costumes...what of that? Again, if you're at a public event, you are playing by the rules of the organizers. They obviously want the public there or they wouldn't be having a public event...so the shoe is on the other foot. Even the PC re-enactors at a PC event have to respect the rules of the organizers.

It's probably best if we take the advice earlier in the post and ask "Who am I?" and not "Who is that guy dressed in Jack Sparrow duds?" I figure I should just let him deal with the event organizers; I want to deal with my friends, future friends and the public.

[Bright]

PIRATE PERSONA

Webster's definition of Persona: "A role a person assumes in order to display their conscious intentions" We all assume roles every day. People reveal different roles in every aspect of their life. How many people act the same at work as they do at home? Imagine going to your boss at work and say "Yes dear, right away dear what ever you say dear". You would not have a job for very long if you worked for any sizeable corporation. How about the other way, you come home and reprimand your spouse for not cooking dinner or taking out the garbage. Can you say "Dog house" People assume different personas in order to make their life uncomplicated. As a pirate I take on a persona to make my life more authentic. It pleases me and to my advantage it affords me the autonomy of being something different. This was an immense wall to break through when I first started dressing as a pirate. Family and work thought very different of me as I started to assume this role. First a person starts growing all their hair long, a pirate of the sixteenth century did not have the luxury to be shaven or well groomed. So the first thing the people at work see is their friend / boss going senile. This starts the remarks flowing. Which brings questions to mind of what the heck is wrong with me? The next step is to start dressing the part, ear rings, jewelry, and attire. This really starts bringing up the eyebrows. My wife still complains that I had more jewelry than her. As things progress you start buying clothes that aid your persona. Imagine the face of a lady as a five foot ten man comes out of the dressing room with a women's blouse on. Let alone a spouse of a coworker. Next comes the verbal education, a pirate can not simply walk around and say "Good afternoon Doug, how is the day is treating you? Did you catch the game last night?" This does not work if you wish to embrace the persona. So you learn "Afternoon Barnacle how be t' day? Watch the game mate? No matter how hard you try to contain this persona you'll catch yourself slipping, like when you learn Spanish you say "Hola" in lieu of Hello. Imagine the ladies face when you walk out of a dressing room with a blouse on saying "Aye this shirt feels like the caresses of a thousand wenches." Before you realize it, friends that do not accept the traditions of the pirate start to fade. You find yourself surrounded by people that validate your persona. In the words of a dazzling (I here the trumpets of a thousand angels blowing) women A pirate; first and foremost is absolutely fearless and cowers to no one. He moves through his life's work and journey as if nobody or nothing caged his soul. He is a renegade and answers to no one...not even a vicious god he cannot see. In his mind he is his own God. His own north star who is focused on liberating himself from conventional notions. A pirate is a man who does contain a moral compass and creates pathways of freedom not fear. He understands his masculinity and power and uses it as an umbrella to protect those who cannot protect themselves. His passion is unbridled. A pirate is an adventurer not a caged animal; although women try to cage him and weaken his inherit strength he refuses to be caged and brought to his knees. A weak spineless man is to be tossed out and trampled but a pirate mans backbone is fused to invisible titanium and will not bend--he will die first rather than give up the essence of what makes him a man. I believe this explains a pirate's state of mind. In time it becomes increasingly difficult to return to the mundane dregs of everyday life. After all, a persona is a role a person assumes in order to display their conscious intentions.

All this happens slowly, most pirates do not realize that they have changed. You find that you are spending more time in the persona. You look foreword to donning clothes, using the persona as an umbrella to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Children are particularly in need due to society's interest to have them grow up faster. Children have less time to pretend, fewer activities besides video games. Children of today need a mechanism to be children. The pirate persona helps teach that you don't have to loose your childhood imagination as you grow older. Childhood is a place in your soul that becomes buried under adulthood. The pirate persona teaches people of all ages that having imagination and leaving the problems of the world behind for a few moments is a great thing. Even when you are an adult, it is acceptable to be a child at heart. Children are the most accepting, giving, loving people in the world. They are the true treasure of all time. If I were to bury a treasure, it would contain all the memories of being a child. At parades pirates come up to children all scary and mean, stop, smile and make them laugh. Still to this day after entertaining at a hospital, parade or appearance I find myself continuing in the persona. While walking through a crowded mall in jeans and tennis shoes, I notice a young child walking in front me, they turn around and I snarl and growl a blood curdling ARRRRR. Believe me very few parents of children find this entertaining. With out the clothes people do not realize that you are a pirate A pirate persona, face or public mask is an avenue used to carry out your pirate activities. This mask enables you to entertain in any environment. Generally speaking, people love the image of a pirate. So far I have entertained in four countries outside of the United States. The pirates have been accepted, invited and welcomed many times over. All you need is pirate clothes, a good ARRRR, and plenty of smiles. The pirate image has been very well received. It seams my brethren before me has paved the way long before my time. The dilemma is this; it is simple to become lost in a persona. If a person believes long enough, the persona becomes personality. People laugh at this statement, but it is real. Let me ask you this, If you could first and foremost be absolutely fearless and cower to no one. Move through life and work as if nobody could cage you. Focus on liberating yourself from conventional notions. Have a moral compass and create pathways of freedom not fear. Understand your power and use it as an umbrella to protect those who cannot protect themselves. Be welcomed with open arms no mater where you go in the world. Entertain and teach people of all ages. Perform at parades, hospitals, and television would you become a pirate? You already know my answer.

[Hawkyns]

There's evidence for it. Like I keep saying, people are people and it takes all sorts of personalities and philosophies to make up any social group - including a gang of pirates. There's lots of evidence for a wide variety of hisorically accurate interpretations if historical interpretation is your goal.

There is, but that is not my point. We are not showing that wide variety at events that claim to be living history. We are showing a polite version of society, with perhaps a few evil caricatures. How do I put this? We are showing 21st century people acting as they think pirates lived. Maybe it's me, but when I do a living history event, for whatever period, I spend a couple of days getting my head into the right space. I want to think like a 1675 person, see the world as they did, react to society as a disgruntled and pissed off Royalist officer. We spend a lot of time talking about kit on this forum. We spend a lot of time talking about skills on other forums. But we spend very little time

discussing where we fit into society, what we would see on a regular basis, and how society would see us.

I do like the 1st person interpretation. In Blackwell's we did it all the time. But you need a lot of info to do it right, and the ability to forget what you know about the modern world. You also need the ability to give up modern comfort and convenience. These are the things that I see missing in living history as it pertains to pyracy.

Hawkyns

[callenish gunner]

Hawkins I totally agree with that assessment... living history is historical reenactment as things were and those in these events should strive for the authenticity of the period. If you only want to play the fantasy pirate know and understand what is fantasy and what is reality. If you only want to be a Capt. Jack impression doing the drunk walk/speech then do it! Just know that a reenactment is not the same thing as a street fair or a Renaissance Faire, everyone there is playing those roles not Living History!!! Once you decide to be part of living history maintain the history. If you feel that you should dress in jeans and biker boots or sneakers and just wear skull and cross bone bandannas and goofy studded gauntlets DON"T claim to anyone "Yeah this how pirates dressed!!!" Also the cheap poly satin psuedo-Victorian corset and spiked thigh high boots isn't the attire of an 18th century lady or whore.

There is a place for both roles but the one trying to enter the fantasy realm can do so with the loss of the recognition of the authentic. For the fantasy pirate to enter the living history world and claim authenticity is where most REENACTORS have issues. It becomes a matter of ethics.

If that makes no difference to you then expect the sort of confrontation that arise from the perceptions of the party that strives for their niche.

[Daniel]

It's interesting that the three of us who have responded as I write this all read the question differently. Michael is talking about clothing, I am talking about personality and M.A. d'Dogge is talking about character/persona. Of course, from what I've read (and written) these are the areas of the pirate re-enacting world that seem to correspond to our interests the best.

Along that very line, I'll bring in another perspective: a writer's. I lack not only the money but also the skills and the dedication needed for re-enacting, but the characters I create are each like an individual persona.

In my stories, the main pirate characters are mostly more pleasant than the average pirate, but inside the realm of realism. That is, if you arranged pirates' personalities on a bell curve from "most savage" to "most kindly," with l'Ollonais at one end and maybe Edward England or the guy who saved George Roberts from John Russell at the other end, my main characters tend to be closer toward England's end of the curve. On the other hand, I try to include villains and minor pirate characters who represent the whole spectrum of pirate behavior.

The reason I do this is that nobody wants to read about a protagonist with whom they can have no sympathy whatsoever.

I can't imagine anyone enjoying a book told entirely from l'Ollanais's point of view, using nothing but what we know about him historically. If I were to write a novel with l'Ollonais as the protagonist, I would probably try something like making him a reasonably nice guy when he first came to the Caribbean as an indentured servant, who then becomes embittered and filled with hatred from his suffering and abuse on the plantation, and finally out of desire for revenge becomes the monster whom we all know; that way the audience, while hating what l'Ollonais becomes in the end, can also feel mourning for the goodness in him that was lost. But of course, that's ahistorical; for all we know, Jean David Nau could have been a right bastard before he ever left the sands of Olonne.

The idea is not to make pirates look nicer or kindlier than they were historically, but just to write from a perspective that puts some of the more sympathetic pirates at center stage instead of in the background. At the same time, I try not to give the impression that the pirates at center stage were typical of all pirates, any more than Edward England or George Roberts' benefactor were typical.

The other thing I do is to make sure that even the more sympathetic characters (pirate and otherwise) still have most, if not all, of the prejudices and vices of their time. Most of the Christian characters assume as a matter of course that anybody who isn't Christian will be damned. All the characters believe that infidelity is unpardonable in a woman and trivial in a man; they discipline their children far more brutally than even a very strict parent would today; they assume that they have at least the right to veto their children's choice of spouse, and in many cases even pick the children's spouses for them; they rarely wash their bodies, etc.

[Ransom]

[ If you feel that you should dress in jeans and biker boots or sneakers and just wear skull and cross bone bandannas and goofy studded gauntlets DON"T claim to anyone "Yeah this how pirates dressed!!!" Also the cheap poly satin psuedo-Victorian corset and spiked thigh high boots isn't the attire of an 18th century lady or whore.

There is a place for both roles but the one trying to enter the fantasy realm can do so with the loss of the recognition of the authentic. For the fantasy pirate to enter the living history world and claim authenticity is where most REENACTORS have issues. It becomes a matter of ethics.

I [/b]

Aw, come on Callenish. When was the last time you saw a woman dressed in poly-satin psuedo-Victorian corsetry, claiming to be a reenactor? I bet if you asked her if she was a reenactor, she'd reply, "Hell no, I'm just here to have fun." If you asked the guy in jeans and eye-patch, he'd probably say the same thing. I would be equally surprised if anyone dressing in a more fantasy-type garb would claim to be authentic.

I think most of the folks who show up in off-the-wall garb are the mundanes. I've seen some pretty weird shyte—including a woman dressed as an albino big-bird. Asked what she was intending, her answer was, "I'm a pirate's pet cockatiel (?)."

Most of us who actually participate in events, even if not PC, dress more toward historical, even if not exactly spot on.

[MarkG]

Who are we? Are we jolly rogues like Jack Sparrow and Robert Newton's Silver or are we hard characters like Charlton Heston's Silver or Will Plunket from "Plunket and MacLeane"? Do we wnat to be liked by the people who see us or do we want to show a more accurate portrayal of the black underbelly of society? Do we need the public as an audience or is the mere portrayal for ourselves enough? In all cases, I would answer the latter.

It's a question I've asked on other 18th century boards. There seems to be a general attitude of putting our forbears on some sort of pedestal and refusing to acknowledge the reality. Pirates were jolly folk who only fought and killed when neccesary. The early colonials were all upstanding people. There were no murderers, horse thieves, highwaymen, town drunks, conmen and whores. All of this is demonstrably untrue as the slightest cracking of any history book will tell you. But when do you see this in a living history camp? When do we see the ragged, the punished, the sick, and all the other unpleasant realities of the 17th and 18th centuries?

Maybe its me with my cynical view of the world, but I've always thought that we do a disservice to the public if we call ourselves living historians and ignore the ugly while portraying only the fun?

Having lit the fuse on this granadoe, I await your opinions.

Hawkyns

I spent a weekend at MTA telling people about how the Jamestown colonists burned the natives' houses and food. No pedestal here but I try to stop short of putting them in a hole.

The last Paynetown event had several ragged citizens and one filthy indentured servant in an iron collar offering to do people's laundry. Plus Michael got roughed up. In fact, this was one of the better living history camps I have seen in 30+ years of reenacting.

Mark

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Well, I guess it's up to me again to give the short answer that will offend the weaker constitutions among us... we cannot portray true history as we should because a few tight-asses get their panties in a wad over it and spoil it for everyone else. American society is wimped out in that respect, but look at the crap they'll sit through in theaters or their own homes: heads getting blown off, body parts flying everywhere, vampires, sex murders, on and on, but true history is too ugly. HAW-HAW! There, it's been said. Plain, simple truth. next question...?

Bo

[MarkG]

Interesting question, and I expect that there will be quite a diversity of answers... And I look forward to them.

I tend to try to walk the line. While I acknowledge and know those we portray were often the worst types, displaying such activity (even in mock emulation), crosses lines modern "Disney-ized" society is uncomfortable with. Particularly when touching on some of modern societies taboos. I also try to pander to the level of the audience. I'm more likely to play the jolly rogue to a 5 or 6 year old, but when talking or interacting with an adult, not pull the punches and try and give a greater hint as to what pirates really were.

One of the areas I try most to avoid, is the gentleman pirate thing. While there are documentable instances of certain pirates/privateers/sailors that dressed to the nines, I think those were only noted because they stood out and were more the exception than the rule. While the ratio of common sailors/pirates to well dressed ones has improved in recent years, I still think the ratio sucks, and will never likely get to where it should be (in my ideal world, as this is a personal opinion). There are some great examples of what I believe an average pirate should look like here on the forum.. Patrick Hand is often the fist and most shining example I can think of, but folks like Kenneth, any one of the Sea Rats Atlantic, CasketChris, Rats, Shay of the Keys, Mark G, and a host of others I think exemplify this look, and if I didn't get stuck playing the Red Coat as much as I do, the look these folks and others similar to them have, is what I aspire to with my pirate/sailor impression.

Back more to the point I think you were trying to aim for, I don't think it is possible to re-enact pirates the way it possibly should be done, so it is really a case of where one chooses to draw the line in the sand on how much to dumb it down and cushion the blow that pirates were really for the most part desperate men who were nasty criminals (without getting into Jungian versus Freudian arguments of circumstances versus upbringing type psychology).

In fact, I think a lot of "pirate re-enactors" are starting to focus more on displaying and demonstrating nautical life more than the piracy angle anyways. One could just as easily call the re-enactors that portray pirates, just sailor re-enactors.... But then that doesn't have the pop-culture appeal that gets us spectators to watch and listen to us.

Being mentioned in the same sentence as the Sea Rats - I guess that's a good thing.

Actually, they do look like real pirates - a bunch of young guys who are so down on their luck they've taken to robbing other sailors.

Mark

[Capt. Sterling]

Hmmm maybe we should define each group like was attempted in another thread with Real versus Reel?

From what I have seen over the years, fwiw, I would attempt to break down to:

Living Historian: The person who is in it to teach/demonstrate by living the life as closely as possible to the actual time frame. This would obviously include the person who is full immersion/never breaks character the entire time they are at an event, drinks from an historically correct vessel and is drinking something period correct. When he turns out his pockets you won't find a cell phone, car keys, or the tab from McDonald's. He flinches in pain when the field commander tells them they must use a walkie talkie during the battle and then instead goes and enlists a dragoon to ride orders down the line when necessary or a runner if the musicians aren't around.

Reenactor: The person is in it for reenacting a battle or a skill from the time frame. For instance the Rev. War soldier who comes to fight in the battle of Monmouth. He knows the drill, follows the commands on the field, his kit is good down to the very last button, and he knows the battle backwards and forwards, but then when the battle is done and gun put away, he breaks out the soda or beer and drinks from the can or bottle and starts talking about his new Harley in front of the public. Or the woman who comes to teach on spinning who reenacts the skill but not in character and teaches it to others using what ever "language" needed to get the point across. When she is done, she packs up her spinning wheel in the car and heads to a hotel for the night.

Growing up in the Rev War time frame, I have seen tons of both reenactors(many of the common soldiers) and living historians(The officer you dare not address unless you make sure you salute him first unless you outrank him even long after the public has gone for the day) and the Reels who are in it just to have fun making things go boom.

And I have overheard that woman in the Fredricks of Hollywood corset claim to be a reenactor, but to give her the benefit of the doubt, perhaps she didn't know what the term meant?

Edited April 1, 2010 by Capt. Sterling

[LadyBarbossa]

Ha! I'm slimmer than the owner of the 17thC sailor's outfit in the Museum of London, have black-powder embedded in my face, am missing five teeth (tea, smokes, and hard-tack), scars over both eyes, broken nose, callouses on my hands with embedded tar, grey hairs in my beard since I was about 25, and a gammy leg. But then I work on a ship and had a dissolute youth, so maybe I'm just showing off...

And ye don't look a day over piratey, Foxe.

Yeah, I'm with Callenish. I've seen WAY too many lasses who wear those corsets and some skirt with modern boots and she calls herself a pirate. Looks more like the latest fad from Hot Topics to me.

There are the many levels of a pirate portrayal. I think this was being discussed on Living History Worldwide, too. But again, boils down to the person portraying a pirate persona.

I had LOTS of fun this evening being rather tame but giving the truth and reality of piracy to some kids this evening. They were overflowing with questions and it was difficult to stop them from asking questions. But I told them I was afraid of the gallows and why. I told them gold wasn't the main item of interest on merchant ships, I made mention of what I would have done and what other crew members would have done. These kids were FASCINATED with the knowledge! And they soaked it up! I've found more often, people are fascinated with the reality and soak it up rather than being disgusted with it. The disgust and fear of one wrong move is just that... fear. If a portrayer is responsible, they should have nothing to fear. But that's the key... that portrayer HAS to be responsible.

It is difficult to immerse one's self in the full portrayal when others around you are just not that into it.

But the public is hungry. They want that knowledge. If it's fascinating enough, they will go with it.

~Lady B

[Capt. Sterling]

The other issue is the circumstances of the reenactors and the fantasy pirates that show up at the same events.

Honestly I don't have an issue with this...as it shows the difference and a lot of the spectators do ask. It reminds me of the time I was going out to lunch with the Lt.Colonel of the 17th/21st Lancers whilst in England. He nearly drove off the road when he spotted a punk rocker in the town he lived in, a good distance from London. I asked him if he didn't like punks and he said no that wasn't the case. He was just surprised to see one in the country. He then went onto explain that folks enjoyed them as they contrasted sharply with the historical side of London and allowed for great comparisons when talking to foreigners who were site seeing for the first time.

[callenish gunner]

The terms need to be defined and should be taught to those wishing to attend events especially those wishing to attend as participants. Sterling I agree with the level of perceived ignorance* by some folks. (* ignorance -as they don't know or understand the difference in what is trying to be recreated). Ransom I don't know about some of the events you attend but I have heard the "yeah, this is how pirates dressed" line at so many events that were supposed to be reenactments with living history camps that it has been sad to admit that they have no idea what they're talking about. If any of my kit isn't spot on I try like hell to disguise it to the best of my ability. That is just me and I'm trying to get better with it too. With making new slops and shirts and jackets/waistcoats, but is slow going when I'm also basing my income on Social Security and whatever meager sales I can make at events (which usually only pays for some of the expenses of attending the desired events)

I count myself fortunate that we have found a good core group of like minded reenactors to share many of these experiences with. For as much as is possible we attempt to maintain the suspension of disbelief while the event is going on and while the public is on the grounds and for the majority of the after hours setting as well but within the confines that most of have to deal with in our modern lives. As a for instance, I make sure I take my modern medications that help keep me alive, and make sure I know where the nearest hospitals are in case I need to be evacuated from a site. Salty wears the very sophisticated eyeglasses that give her the limited vision she is afforded by wearing those special lenses. Mission wears and is monitored and supplied insulin by the pump he wears under his kit. Silkie tries to make sure she has access to electricity to power the CPAP machine to control her severe sleep apnea. Most of the camps have coolers, hidden by whatever methods, to preserve the food we eat in camp. And finally there are the sanitary facilities we all enjoy, even if all they are are port-o-pots. Are our portrayals always 100% accurate for the time we portray? Probably, no, definitely not!

Since this was posted in Twill and not under Pyrate Pop, I think that as Historical Reenactors we owe it to the public and the sites who invite us to attend to honour the history and give the best accurate impression of the information of the life and times of the folks we are supposed to recreate.

And Sterling if you grew up in the rev war times and I'm only slightly older than you, guess that makes me correct for GAOP

Edited April 1, 2010 by callenish gunner

[Capt. Sterling]

But the public is hungry. They want that knowledge. If it's fascinating enough, they will go with it.

~Lady B

You know the funny thing about this is that there are actually a series of books for kids...the You wouldn't want to live in a Wild West Town, You wouldn't want to be sick in the 16th century, You wouldn't want to be Pirate's Prisoner, etc...that strictly show the "ugly, hard" side of the time frame each book concentrates on. Kids LOVE them and they get them asking questions, IF you can get them past all the naked athletes in the You wouldn't want to be a Greek Athlete. Then they just blush and giggle a lot...

We have found that its the event hosts that balk at the hangings, not the crowds. Maddogge is very careful to "read" the spectators as we do this particular stunt in case we need to suddenly change the "outcome" but the folks eat it up and most of the kids know its fake no matter how realistic we try to make it. So to bring out the bad side as well as the good really shouldn't be an issue.

And of course not portraying pirates but privateers bent on hunting down pirates, we have no problems telling folks how terrible some of them were including the so called pirate hunters.

Edited April 1, 2010 by Capt. Sterling

[Capt. Sterling]

. Silkie tries to make sure she has access to electricity to power the CPAP machine to control her severe sleep apnea.

Nah Silkie only uses this because she knows I will strangle her in her sleep if she keeps me awake!

And Sterling if you grew up in the rev war times and I'm only slightly older than you, guess that makes me correct for GAOP

[/b]

Smart arse...

[callenish gunner]

Damnation Sterling you sure have aged well ....whereas I must have led a life of sin and debauchery ...but what a ride!!!