Tricorne, Felt, Leather or straw...

[Korisios]

My question is, I do see 3 kinds of material:

My quess would be: that felt is the normal material used.

Leather is more something for the adventurer mountainmen hunter kind of person???

And straw would be something for the poor... (locals)???

Am I close?

after all every normal hat whathever material, can be turned into a tricorn... (somehowe) right?

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

Straw if your character sold everything he owns and felt if your character likes a fine hat! Depends on your character. Leather? There are period examples, but I have yet to see a period example of a leather tricorne - although I am not an authority on leather GAOP tricornes.

[Liam McMac]

Like Moosey said.... it depends on yer character. Straw for warmer weather I would suppose. I wear straw simply because it's mighty warm here durring faire season. But you will catch me in a scots bonnet from time to time... which was also worn regularly.

[MarkG]

My question is, I do see 3 kinds of material:

My quess would be: that felt is the normal material used.

Leather is more something for the adventurer mountainmen hunter kind of person???

And straw would be something for the poor... (locals)???

Am I close?

after all every normal hat whathever material, can be turned into a tricorn... (somehowe) right?

I think that straw is under represented. It is a lot cooler in the Summer sun than felt.

I know that sailors wore leather caps but I don't think that tricorns were ever made from leather. Modern ones usually have a wire added to the brim to stiffen it.

The good tricorns were made with felt - preferably beaver felt. Rabbit fur will make good felt if it is treated with mercury but that drives hatters mad. Wool felt was for the people who couldn't afford the better stuff.

Mark

[Captain McCool]

The good tricorns were made with felt - preferably beaver felt. Rabbit fur will make good felt if it is treated with mercury but that drives hatters mad. Wool felt was for the people who couldn't afford the better stuff.

Mark

i.e. Me

[Jack Roberts]

I would recommend a felt one. Since this is in twill I'm looking at this from a historical perspective.

I haven't seen evidence for a "Straw Tricorne" or "Leather Tricorne". So for a tricorne (that's a modern term for what is called a "cocked hat" of the period.) I would stick with the felt. Plenty of blanks can be had at a decent price.

I've heard of the leather caps like MarkG speaks of. Although I can recall seeing any. Foxe did find this a few years back Leather Hat but that doesn't seem real common.

For a PC impression I would stick with a Felt tricorne.

[Korisios]

Hm... ...diverend opinions

After years at see or living in the buss of the Caribiën I can imagien that people would run out of material like felt and other familiar europian textiles, and then start to use other materials, like the straw that the locals use for their hats.

put them in warm water, bend the rim upwarts stich the rim to the bowl and walla there you go with a fashionable cocked hat... (more or less)

or am i putting things to simple?

Any howe the question of how easy it was in the GAoP in the Caribien area to get europien textiles and other stuff is a interresting one and determines how they looked out there back then...

Any thoughts??

[Jack Roberts]

In it's hey day Port Royal Jamaica was right on par with the London fashions.

[Jack Roberts]

Also the idea behind the American Colonies was to provide the Homeland with raw materials. In return the finished products would be shipped back to the colonies for purchase. Various taxes and polices were implemented to try and suppress the colonies and keep the "economic model" working. Which of course led to the American Revolution.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Jack Roberts

[Korisios]

So much for my theory... Thanks! 1 - 0

How freely could a Pirate or Bucaneer move about in thowns like Port Royal Jamaica?

[Jack Roberts]

Port Royal very much a Pirate town in the late 1690's. Thanks to Sir Henry Morgan acting as Governor. Once the earth quake happened the town never fully recovered and (if memory serves me right) the next big Pirate boom town was Nassau. (Please correct me if I'm wrong. Do a quick Wiki read of the history of Port Royal and that should give you a good Idea of what it was like. (Not that Wikipedia is the greatest resource but for general stuff like that, it can give you a good idea of what things were like.)

[Liam McMac]

Blarney....

Women wore staw hats... which was very much in fashion for a long time... Farmers, tradesman, slaves they all wore straw hats.. and I'm sure one or 2 got "cocked" at some point.

Gotta leave some things to faith and common sense

[Iron Hand]

Just a matter of clarification here...A tricourne is a Tricourne(three cornered hat)

A cocked hat is one that is set ascew for a miriad of reasons. The tri-corned military hat was cocked to enable soldiers to shoulder their muskets without knocking off their hats. And that was only during the latter part of the 18th century. That can be accomplished by the way you set up your hat when you're tying down the sides.Officers didn't seem to ordinarily wear cocked hats and I never saw one on a pirate, at least on purpose. Bi-cournes are considered cocked hat's, don't know why...

Now let's see....Hot.....Humid....Tropical Climate. Palm trees, cane breaks....no beaver....no money......Pyrate, second class citizens.....Yep gotta agree, straw hat seems to be more of a true choice than felt.....That is unless the felt hat belonged to someone ya kilt.....Northern waters....Felt seems to be the correct choice.... It's all a matter of geography,taste and economics...Savvy.....

No offense intended......

[Jack Roberts]

No offense taken but I just haven't seen straw hats being that common. I'm not saying they weren't worn. I just know that felt hats we're worn, so I stick with what I know is used. This being Twill I'm going to argue this point, why not go with what you know was worn instead of speculating what might have been? Of this depends if you are trying to be Historical or not. If you're just doing a hollywood style pyrate then wear whatever you want. Otherwise you have to look at what we can research. (I shouldn't have to make this designation in this forum.)

[Korisios]

I am doing reenactment fore years now (iron age and Roman) and everywhere it's the same disusion. Wich infact is good because it keeps us sharp. Alltough my opinion is that it's not about correct or incorrect or even about authentity, it's just another approache to the hobby.

Even if your strifing for compleet autenticitiy only based on actual finds or from what is written, you will neet to fill in some blanks by using common sense. (At least if your doing 300 BC like me.) On the other side using common sence, by saying that a felt hat is not practical in a warm and hummid climate, keeps the mind and your sensability going and might prefent from copying some wrong things every now and then.

On the other side what is common sense now anno 2010, might not be so in let's say the GAoP... And then yes fashion makes people now and then do strange unpractical things. (ask your wife who's where's these high healed shoes all night that hurt like hell...)

All together the climat and our idea of warm and cold weather and how to prevent from beying to cold or to hot, has in my opinion changed dramaticaly sinse we life in our comfy houses with central heating and air conditioning...

[Korisios]

As a mather of fact, you people allready supprised me by the ammount of knowledge and strife to authencity.

I was told , when I asked someone about "pirate reenactors and their clothing" that I would be dissapointed because you guys wouldn't mind authenticity. That most of you would go for the Hollywood look and the party side. But this site proved him wrong by far!!

Going throu all the threads here and aspecialy the ones with the The Buccaneer Project and the You in yar garb. thread and many others kept me tied to computer for hours! And I have seen some realy good looking impressions and groups as a whole.

I am no expered, but I think i do have a feel for what looks to be right...

And there some pretty knowedgable people here!

So I hope you guys don't mind ill keep pikking your brains for a little longer...

[Jack Roberts]

Keep pickin' brains my friend and welcome! Sorry if I was a bit brash in my last comments. I just don't like having to preface everything I say with, "Of this depends if you are trying to be Historical or not." I have no problem doing it in the other areas of the forum, but in Twill well it should be assumed that it's meant to be a historical discussion. That is all. Please forgive my abrasiveness.

[Daniel]

Certainly straw hats are documented; there are three of them in the inventory of the Providence from 1683 (see Jameson p. 60. The only question would be whether they were tricorne in form. The records on that are rather sparse.

[michaelsbagley]

I took a hunt for it, but I couldn't find it...

But I seem to recall seeing some art that validates the existence and use of straw hats in the period (and in the near years around it as well). If memory serves me well, none of the images of straw hats were of a cocked design (tricorns), but I am going from memory here.... At least until I find that old discussion. Maybe I am looking on the incorrect forum... I really hate my sometimes selective memory.

[Korisios]

Keep pickin' brains my friend and welcome! Sorry if I was a bit brash in my last comments. I just don't like having to preface everything I say with, "Of this depends if you are trying to be Historical or not." I have no problem doing it in the other areas of the forum, but in Twill well it should be assumed that it's meant to be a historical discussion. That is all. Please forgive my abrasiveness.

Thanks Jack, no offence taken, your forgiven. Discusions are good!

[Dutchman]

i still maintain we don't have lots of documentation of straw hats is it was either so common noone worried about documentation or they all blew off and are sitting at the bottom of the sea. Knowing what conditions were like aboard ships, I would love to know how they were stored so as to be beautiful when the artist did their renderings.

[MarkG]

i still maintain we don't have lots of documentation of straw hats is it was either so common noone worried about documentation or they all blew off and are sitting at the bottom of the sea. Knowing what conditions were like aboard ships, I would love to know how they were stored so as to be beautiful when the artist did their renderings.

I think that it is the first - they were cheap, plentiful, and didn't last long. Lots of paintings of commoners and tradesmen show them with some form or another of straw hat from the middle ages through the 19th century. They still wear them in some areas. There is no reason that they couldn't be cocked into a tricorn but I'm now sure how often this was actually done. It doesn't help that some 17th century straw hats were colored. It is possible that some of the pirates wearing tricorns in woodcuts were wearing black straw hats. There is no way to tell.

Here is a site that documents straw hats through the middle ages and early 17th century. http://www.larsdatter.com/strawhats.htm

Mark