"foul weather gear" fabric ??

[silas thatcher]

capt. sterling, what kind of fabric constitutes "foul weather gear" fabric ?? a certain wool, oiled canvas, what was used ??

tia

[callenish gunner]

Silas, this is one source for oilcloth that makes a decent rain coat/watch shirt Scarlet Scareb oilcloth

[michaelsbagley]

Well, I might not be Sterling... But if you look at the capotes (hooded justacorps) of the time, they were made from heavy wools. Also going through the Admirality Contracts of the time, most of the heavy cooler weather wear was also constructed from heavy wools. Modern melton wool doesn't really compare with what they used in period, but is often the best one can get for re-enactment purposes.

My warmest garments are made from heavy wool outer, with lighter weight wool linings. While I haven't been out in my gear in complete winter conditions, the cooler late autumn events I have been to in that gear has shown my wool lined with wool garments to be more than good enough.

[Silkie McDonough]

I too, am not the captain, I can tell you that we are using a melton wool from B.Black & Sons for the capotes

http://www.bblackandsons.com/fabrics-wool-coating-fabric-c-68_74.html?zenid=5e136b2619b08e0679d93f3c5b846c98

[callenish gunner]

When I responded with the oilcloth info is because most frequently the term foul infers rain or inclement weather.

[michaelsbagley]

When I responded with the oilcloth info is because most frequently the term foul infers rain or inclement weather.

Good point Callenish, Silas would you clarify whether you are talking rainy stormy bad weather or cold wintery weather, that will make a big difference on the best answer!

[silas thatcher]

yeah, i have a pattern for a great coat and kinduv undecided whether i want it for cold or for cold and rain... since i really don't wanna camp any where in the snow, i'm leaning towards rainy conditions...

in the fall at fort de chartres, we got extremely lucky with beautiful weather... almost sweated at one point... regulars there stated that some years were cool and rainy...

but still undecided !!

oh ---- thanks for the answers and links !!

Edited February 10, 2010 by silas thatcher

[michaelsbagley]

yeah, i have a pattern for a great coat and kinduv undecided whether i want it for cold or for cold and rain... since i really don't wanna camp any where in the snow, i'm leaning towards rainy conditions...

in the fall at fort de chartres, we got extremely lucky with beautiful weather... almost sweated at one point... regulars there stated that some years were cool and rainy...

but still undecided !!

oh ---- thanks for the answers and links !!

If it is for a great coat, I would probably go with Callenish's suggestion for oil cloth/canvas. I just think the great coat just lends itself to being more of a raincoat than a cold weather coat... But that is just my silly take on the matter, and has nothing to do with real history.

Another source for oil cloth is Period Fabrics.com (a sub-company of Hamilton Dry Goods)... They usually have great prices and good quality stuff (I have bought other stuff from them numerous times). However, if you decide to check out this company, call them first. I read recently than Mr. Hamilton passed on, so calling them will ensure that things are moving again after his passing.

[silas thatcher]

maybe i'll just make one of each and solve my stupid dilemma

[callenish gunner]

Great coats were actually made most often made from wool (usually worn by officers) which could be waxed on the over-cape like a heavyweight duster particularly for officers; watch-shirts were the type of garments worn by crewmen, over short jackets & waistcoats.

[Daniel]

I vaguely recall seal skin being used for rain gear by sailors, but can't remember the date; it might have been after GAoP. I guess it would have been pretty expensive.

[capn'rob]

When did they develop Pilot Cloth (P Cloth)? I believe it's a wool that, unlike a Melton, is tighter and when wet gets even tighter. Another Tuppence from Dutch "X" his mark.

[Matty Bottles]

Great coats were actually made most often made from wool (usually worn by officers) which could be waxed on the over-cape like a heavyweight duster particularly for officers; watch-shirts were the type of garments worn by crewmen, over short jackets & waistcoats.

Is that the 'frock' they talk about in many inventories? Perhaps a tarred garment similar to a farmer's frock?

This image is a little late for us but the garment itself is essentially unchanged.

[theM.A.dDogge]

Great coats were actually made most often made from wool (usually worn by officers) which could be waxed on the over-cape like a heavyweight duster particularly for officers; watch-shirts were the type of garments worn by crewmen, over short jackets & waistcoats.

Is that the 'frock' they talk about in many inventories? Perhaps a tarred garment similar to a farmer's frock?

This image is a little late for us but the garment itself is essentially unchanged.

yes...thats a good pic foor the watch shirt look...just tarr the hell out of it...and throw it over top your coat and what not

[theM.A.dDogge]

i agree...most i have read or seen about...have been a tight weave heavy wool...lined in wool....which does well enough for most rain...but if it does soak thru will still keep ya warm as too the properties of wool...with the added tarred (or oiled) cape...will do for most foul weather

[callenish gunner]

The "tar" was thinned down pine tar and linseed oil so it was waterproof and flexible; thus the name oilcloth. These thin, usually linen, shirts would keep you fairly dry and packed down rather small so they could be stowed away when not needed.

[theM.A.dDogge]

The "tar" was thinned down pine tar and linseed oil so it was waterproof and flexible; thus the name oilcloth. These thin, usually linen, shirts would keep you fairly dry and packed down rather small so they could be stowed away when not needed.

tho i have seen these get brittle and crack...where a reapplication from time to time is required....

just wondering....i wonder how much these watch shirts would have been a throw away item...versus make one keep it forever type of garment? would it have been easier to up keep? or just make another fresh one as required?

[callenish gunner]

The throw away culture is a more concept I believe ...most of what I've seen was a sense of wear it until it's "toast"

[Matty Bottles]

I'm pretty sure that Two Years Before the Mast references making foul weather gear (though it doesn't specificy what kind) when they're off watch. Dana is very good at outlining the busy work they would have to do to keep them from being idle and mutinous: making twine from old rope, cleaning anchor chains of rust, making clothes, etc. Although it is more than a hundred years late for us, I think it can be useful.

So I believe that it's entirely possible they would have found a way to repurpose a shirt once it was too brittle to be effective, and just made a new one to replace it.

Edited February 11, 2010 by Matty Bottles

[hardtack]

Would this watch cloak on Jas Townsend be appropriate for your everyday sailor?

http://jas-townsend....products_id=223

If this cloak isn't fine, is there a place to buy a wool greatcoat cheap? I'm new here and I also lack all sewing talent aside from sewing on buttons. I'm pretty focused on this topic now after this rainy weekend.

[Dutchman]

aha! i knew this was a topic somewhere...

hey folks, i ran across some prints that were done by a french artist named Du Monceau i think around 1730-40, maybe a bit later. Take a look at the two drawings below. While not cold weather gear per se, these are novascotian fishermen who know a hell of a lot about it.

Lets look at the fellow in the middle. Other than what looks like wooden shoes or square toed leather- is he wearing leg coverings of some sort?

Now here is the one i'm drooling over.

First, yes they are standing in barrels. According to the accompanied text to keep them clean and allows them to keep their balance onboard. OK,OK, on to the clothing....

the guy in the middle obviously has an apron over his clothing so we lose a lot of detail. How about his hat though- the beginnings of the gloucester fisherman's hat? Does anyone have any info on the history of them. I have a hat blank just waiting for a revelation. Onto the fellow on the right... a solid front and permanent hooded capote of some sort?

[Cascabel]

aha! i knew this was a topic somewhere...

hey folks, i ran across some prints that were done by a french artist named Du Monceau i think around 1730-40, maybe a bit later. Take a look at the two drawings below. While not cold weather gear per se, these are novascotian fishermen who know a hell of a lot about it.

Lets look at the fellow in the middle. Other than what looks like wooden shoes or square toed leather- is he wearing leg coverings of some sort?

Now here is the one i'm drooling over.

First, yes they are standing in barrels. According to the accompanied text to keep them clean and allows them to keep their balance onboard. OK,OK, on to the clothing....

the guy in the middle obviously has an apron over his clothing so we lose a lot of detail. How about his hat though- the beginnings of the gloucester fisherman's hat? Does anyone have any info on the history of them. I have a hat blank just waiting for a revelation. Onto the fellow on the right... a solid front and permanent hooded capote of some sort?

It appears that the barrels, or half-barrels are securely tied down also. A good idea when both hands are occupied on a rocking ship !!!

>>>> Cascabel

[Fox]

It appears that the barrels, or half-barrels are securely tied down also. A good idea when both hands are occupied on a rocking ship !!!

Occupied with sharp knives no less!

There is an earlier woodcut of some Newfoundland fishing types, which has been posted on here somewhere, in which one of them at least is definitely wearing a garment similar to, if not actually, a capote.

[Bos'n Cross]

Might the chap in the(bottom) middle be wearing a broad brimmed high crowned monmouth (otherwise knows as the "peter the great hat")?...it does look quite similar in shape to the gloucester caps though........

The fellow it the top engraving for sure seems to have some sort of leg covering, but i wonder why (or at least it doesnt seem) the others arent wearing any similar covering..........though they all seem to be wearing wooden shoes, which iv come across before....i dont think iv ever seen a reenactor wearing them though...lol great find dutch!

[capn'rob]

Just a few observations and experiences. The foul weather hats reffered to are Sou'westers. I believe what is seen in the drawing is an early developement of the classic best performing hat, ever. At the Museum in Gloucester they sell oiled canvas Sou'westers. I have used, for many years, a foul weather jacket and captain's coat without hood with my sou'wester. With glasses they are particularly effective. Mine is an Old, Black Diamond, close to 35 years old.

I would imagine the secured barrels with the aprons would keep the gurry away from their footing. Particularly with those "sharpe knives". The wide squared knives are specialy used for "splitting" Cod Fish. They would next be salted to preserve then sold at a growing market as the fish would stay palatable for long periods of time. I don't see any thing in use for collecting the Cod Livers unless this was something not yet in use at this time. I'd ask the Surgeon about that one. In my short career of Draggerman, Cleaning Cod was one of my jobs. Although iced now for the Fresh Market, they are still slit, gutted and the livers saved.

An elder on Block Island told me that the wool mittens made by the Island women were made long so the men could cut off the excess and add extra pad to the palma. He then told me that first thing they'd do in the use of the mittens was to plunge thier hands into the almost frozen seawater. The wool would shrink and the heat of their hands would be kept in and stay in!

As for the leg coverings, but for the strange looking (wooden?) shoe parts, they look like modern "hip boots" used in the industry today. It was the pratice of getting your hip boots larger than needed so you could get them off quickly. Over the side they would become anchors really fast!! The Aprons are still in use today. They remind me of the "Bait Girls" in Galillee, RI. Jeans, Hip Boots, Bikini Top and Aprons. Stringing bait for the Lobstermen to buy.

That's what I got. Dutch