lining or interfacing for stays? front or backlacing?

[LadyBarbossa]

...but to see folks walking around in just petticotes, shift and corset...

::::makes an sour-puss, horrific face and a god-aweful sound to match the scarey look::::

Oh, dear GOD!

One of those horrors that's endured even still at historical reenactments like F&I and Rev War. :::cringe::: Petticoats that don't cover the ankles, strapless stays over a cookie-cutter chemise that hangs off the shoulder and MAYBE a hat or cap but hair still left down....

That second image looks like a banyan.

I've a loose version of this and it's fabulous! Classy and simple. And great for those times when you are even out of your stays at night, heading to the shower in mules and a chemise or that midnight bathroom break. Or you can't get to change to your proper day attire swiftly enough.

~Lady B

[LadyBrower]

...but to see folks walking around in just petticotes, shift and corset...

::::makes an sour-puss, horrific face and a god-aweful sound to match the scarey look::::

Oh, dear GOD!

One of those horrors that's endured even still at historical reenactments like F&I and Rev War. :::cringe::: Petticoats that don't cover the ankles, strapless stays over a cookie-cutter chemise that hangs off the shoulder and MAYBE a hat or cap but hair still left down....

Forgive me if I am wrong... But isn't the "ankle thing" a prude Victorian problem? It is my understanding that it is entirely acceptable for GAoP for ankle to be seen, in fact, isn't up to mid calf an acceptable length? Please correct me if I am wrong...

Also, Captain, What sort of "glue" would be used for stiffening? I have heard of starching with potato and cornstarch (for petticoats in particular) but what glue would be a suitable stand in for the period?

[Capt. Sterling]

I do agree with Lady Brower... shorter above the ankle to mid calf is very acceptable for our time frame...ankle length for circa Am. Rev. War is also acceptable... I can post some examples when I get home... and as to strapless stays... granted I have not seen them for GAoP..(yet) but they were acceptable for Rev. War.

I will ask some questions regarding glue for stays, as, at the moment, I am only aware of Hide glue that was used in leather work during the 18th century...

[Hawkyns]

It all depends on country and culture. Mid calf length skirts date back to the Tudor period in the Germanies. The "bodice" that is so common at 18th C events is actually a corruption of a French fashion, the justaucorps du femme, a garment cut somewhere between a bodice and a man's waistcoat, with or without sleeves and figure hugging. Hair covering could depend on marital status or profession.

One of the things I've been fighting in the 18th c has been the attitude that all the people were respectable and dressed according to the fashions of Boston and Philadelphia. Many people were not respectable. Whores were a part of society, just as were those who were on the low end of the curve and wore cast offs. Not everyone wishes to portray the respectable wife, officer's lady, or gentry. To much of this is based on the myth and pedestal that has been attached to the founding fathers.

If we are talking about pirates and their ladies, I would hope we would look at Dutch genre paintings of taverns and engravers like Hogarth, rather than the portraits painted for people with money. Uncovered hair, stays worn openly, chemises off the shoulder, even clothing cut below the nipple may not be the fashion in Boston or Philly. But it would be alot more common in Port Royal.

Hawkyns

[Capt. Sterling]

I suppose it all depends then on who actually recorded the images... for example many of the Town Crier illustrations from GAoP... still show heads covered as well as most of the body for many different stations in life... from children on up...

I am seeing shorter petticotes both in England and parts of Europe, but I am only seeing uncovered, unkempt hair on illustrations of gypsies...

I am not saying they aren't out there, I just have not run across them as of yet...I guess I am, once again, slipping into the old habit of discussing what is common as opposed to what doesn't seem to be coming across regularly in artwork of the period.

[LadyBarbossa]

err... umm, I think ye all missed th' point.

Oh, well... Back to the Stays...

~Lady B

[Cascabel]

Just as an interesting bit of odd information to the stays thread.......

My grandmother, who was born in the 1870's always referrred to her corset as her "stays". I never quite understood it as a small child, but apparently she grew up referring to corsets as stays. I wonder for how long the term was in common use..... Any educated guesses ??

>>>> Cascabel

[capn'rob]

Oh and since I completely missed the main gist of this thread.. Linen canvas for interlining...approximately 7.0 oz weight or higher... I have not seen, at least not in my local fabric stores a suitable weight interfacing that will "hang" the same way and give the proper support... and remember this was often stiffened with paste or glue...

Ancient Battle Armour was made of layers of Linen pasted togeather with a surface of leather or metal!

[capn'rob]

Just as an interesting bit of odd information to the stays thread.......

My grandmother, who was born in the 1870's always referrred to her corset as her "stays". I never quite understood it as a small child, but apparently she grew up referring to corsets as stays. I wonder for how long the term was in common use..... Any educated guesses ??

>>>> Cascabel

In yours, and my Grandmother's time, their Stays were fitted with boning that was called "bone". However, it was Baleen. The huge straining screen between the jaws of the Baleen Whale. The Book on this fishery's history is tittled, "Corset Stays and Buggy Whips, The Baleen Whale Fishery". Once removed and dried, the once pliable cartalige type material became hard but flexible.

[Capt. Sterling]

Just as an interesting bit of odd information to the stays thread.......

My grandmother, who was born in the 1870's always referrred to her corset as her "stays". I never quite understood it as a small child, but apparently she grew up referring to corsets as stays. I wonder for how long the term was in common use..... Any educated guesses ??

>>>> Cascabel

Quoting Lara from laracorsets, a leader in the historic field regarding corsets and the making of them..."A Stay and a corset are the same thing in different time periods. Before the mid 19th century you rarely hear the word corset used since all "corsets" were stays. After the mid 19th century a "stay" was often used in place of the word corset bone. As in what sort of stays are in your corset or bodice?"

[lady constance]

the world would be a more beautiful place if we women would wear stays and corsets in this present day and age.............

clothing commands respect...in any day and age...and we would do well to remember that.....

[Spitfire Stevens]

Hello:

As one of the first women in 18th C. to actually make a full sack gown with two petticoats, and a fitted corset,

for a French style show back in 1976, I have done a lot of research about stays/corsets.

For the common woman, there were stays that laced back, which were covered by a jacket or gown.

Stays that laced in front, and the lacings were covered by a stomacher with a jacket or gown.

Stays that laced both, and were not seen when finally dressed.

And front and back laced stays that were taken apart and made to lace on both sides for pregnancy, and then sometimes sewn back up after birthing or left and worn during the next pregnancy.

As for fashion. the class of your persona would dictate whatever you wore or did not wear!

Pyrates go for such a broad timeframe, from 1600's to 1800s that general discussion should focus on the decade or time period, as styles

came and went. Yul Brenner as "LaFette"?

As for back laced stays those with front tie straps, can be done by your self without a maid to serve you, if you lace in a proper in and out spiral from the bottom up, with a very long linen tape.

Lace it up enough to get it on, with the back in front.Turn it around, shift it, then pull up on the lacing and down on the waist, till you are comfortable. Do a crochet type of knot about six times and then snake the tie around under your arm and tuck it into your clevage.

Tie the straps where they feel right, and there- you have it. The need for the front of the straps to be loose becomes very apparent

But I find it is more fun to find an older gentleman visitor wandering in camp and politely as for help in lacing me up.

Usually they are embarrased, and decline, I then ask the wife if she minds, but she usually laughs and agrees.

I tell him, over my shoulder..."Just think of me as an old shoe, you won't have any problems!"

That prompts him to make some nice polite comment and I get to flirt with him!!! I tell him I usually do not get this dressed up till later, because about 10 hours later, my body is ready to get out of the stays!

They should NEVER meet in back laced stays upon first lacing. Two hours later you can tighten them, and maybe again later in the day.

Some events in the 18th C. are putting the wearing of bodice/jackets for women rules in their registration packages.

Sleeveless corsets were made to be covered. NO RENFAIR sleeze (bare shoulders) need apply!

Spitfire Stevens :~)

I have a pair of stays that I covered in red wool. And are they hot!!!!!

I have had linen stays, silk stays, but mostly cotton ones.

Do not make a set using upholustery fabric that is coated with a backing. Those are really hot!

It took 20 years of washing to get the coating to dissolve, but the weave was great.

[LadyBarbossa]

the world would be a more beautiful place if we women would wear stays and corsets in this present day and age.............

clothing commands respect...in any day and age...and we would do well to remember that.....

Aye, most true, Constance. Most true.

So... have ye obtained th' answer to yo'r question yet, lass? :)

~Lady B

[lady constance]

AYe..... I DO HAVE THE ANSWERS TO MY questions....

and i LOVE all the comments and informations tidbits and educational stuff.... cant ever get enough.....

back laced, will use interfacing { current thickener/ stiffener as opposed to PASTE God knows what made of back then!}

wont use wool unless going to wear in winter, but as i am always cold, wool stays just might be perfect thing for always cold lady me

perosnally i dont cre if there are 55 more posts added to this.. i just love the education and information

[callenish gunner]

Wool can be warm but it isn't the living hell so many think it is ...it can be as comfortable if not more so than cotton. It has a wider comfort latitude than most fibers because it breathes; the fibers of wool do not absorb nearly as much moisture into the fibers as does cotton(cotton absorbs 9x's it's weight in water and dries very slowly) I usually wear a wool waistcoat and or frockcoat unless I'm going to be out in the direct sunlight in 80+ degree days. As you saw last year at PIP the weather can change quickly and that being said it is seldom for the better. I watched how in the spread of less than an hour it turned chilly there and a bit of wool adds a level of warmth that, however slightly moist, cotton allows. I have always worn wool through out most of the year having grown up in Scotland. (I'll make sure to keep wool blankets handy to keep you wrapped up in;))

[LadyBrower]

The next set of stays for myself will be wool. I would really like to try this glue/ past thing. Though, I can't imagine it breaths well, depending on the substance. I may try starching the interlining as well, for an extra stiff form.

Both potato and corn starch would have been used... I am guessing corn would be more likely in the states?

[Capt. Sterling]

Laracorsets reply:

"No, no idea.

There are natural starches and protein based glues which would have been available at the time. Good old Elmers watered down always works. They sell liquid starch for shirts which works well too. I just do not know how period the chemistry of each are. They act the same as the period products would though."

[LadyBrower]

Thanks! That helps. I may start with the starch (Clint has the heavy duty stuff for his uniforms) and see how that works out. Then I can experiment from there...

[Capt. Sterling]

great, keep us posted with your findings