Trident Dagger

[Jib]

Any of you familiar with a trident blade dagger/ main gauche? Know of any vendors who sell a decent one? Perhaps a stage combat capable blade?

[PoD]

They are known as a trident main gauche. They have them on these sites:

http://www.armae.com/Zenglish/renaissance/renaissance_sword_and_rapier.htm

http://www.by-the-sword.com/acatalog/Trident_Main_Gauche_SH1031.html

[Quartermaster James]

The only production version I have seen is the CAS Iberia/Hanwei item (as in PoD's provided links).

It is fun, I'll give it that. Not actually having owned one myself, I can't speak to its sturdiness.

[theM.A.dDogge]

http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~PC1031~name~Hanwei+Trident+Main+Gauche.htm

i have one of these....fun to use....but a little on the weak side for actual fecing with the "barbs" out....could be used for LIGHT use...even though has a BATTLE READY statement.....

[PoD]

I get the feeling that one well placed blow would snap them forks right off. I assume originally the idea was to catch your opponents sword between the main blade and a fork and then twist the whole thing to snap the blade.

[Cascabel]

I get the feeling that one well placed blow would snap them forks right off. I assume originally the idea was to catch your opponents sword between the main blade and a fork and then twist the whole thing to snap the blade.

My thinking would be to use it to catch and get control of your opponent's blade long enough to deal him a serious blow, rather than to waste time trying to break his blade. Perhaps some experienced swordfight folks will chime in on this......

>>>> Cascabel

[Hawkyns]

There are only a handful of these originals about, maybe less than that. There are more of the repros out there than ever actually existed. They were one of the oddball weapons that show up from time to time, but because they are unique and different, they get a lot of attention. I've played with one a bit, but yes, the side blades are attached at only the hinge points with a rivet type hinge. VERY weak. They might work in a light rapier fight where the blade is thin and long enough to give leverage when you catch it, but I don't see breaking it as an option. And against a backsword or cutlass, they would be completely useless.

Hawkyns

[theM.A.dDogge]

you are correct there Cascabel...these and other oddball weapons(Hawkins )...are not for breaking but for "slowing" an opponets blade...just long enough to land yours....would be used similiar in use to a cloak or jacket used for parrys....

tho with the trident...still has a "sharp point"...for a lucky thrust with the left hand(over a cloak etcetc)

and i agree...made for rapier style duelling....no match for the backswords or cutlass

pretty tho

[Jib]

Perhaps First Mate Matt is willing to lend his creative talent toward building one of these. I think it would be a wonderful part of a Stage Combat phrase for the audience to see a fighter pop his trident and entangle his foes blade!

[MarkG]

There are only a handful of these originals about, maybe less than that. There are more of the repros out there than ever actually existed. They were one of the oddball weapons that show up from time to time, but because they are unique and different, they get a lot of attention. I've played with one a bit, but yes, the side blades are attached at only the hinge points with a rivet type hinge. VERY weak. They might work in a light rapier fight where the blade is thin and long enough to give leverage when you catch it, but I don't see breaking it as an option. And against a backsword or cutlass, they would be completely useless.

Hawkyns

I have one. It is very lightly constructed. I would not trust it against a fencing weapon. The originals were more robust. I used to know someone who made usable reproductions.

In period these were part of a series of gimmicks that were meant to surprise an opponent during a brawl just long enough to get a thrust through. These were used to catch an opponent's blade. Another type of dagger had a thick blade and a series of cuts on the back. You swept the blade upwards, trying to trap your opponent's blade in one of the cuts. By twisting your dagger you could hold his blade. Some of these had a spring closure on the top.

Another option was a trick rapier. I saw a picture of one that had a spring-loaded blade. At the touch of a button the blade would jump forward a few inches. For good measure, it had a hidden blade that would pop out of the pommel.

None of these would be allowed in a formal duel and your seconds would inspect your opponent's weapons, checking for tricks.

Mark

[PoD]

There are only a handful of these originals about, maybe less than that. There are more of the repros out there than ever actually existed. They were one of the oddball weapons that show up from time to time, but because they are unique and different, they get a lot of attention. I've played with one a bit, but yes, the side blades are attached at only the hinge points with a rivet type hinge. VERY weak. They might work in a light rapier fight where the blade is thin and long enough to give leverage when you catch it, but I don't see breaking it as an option. And against a backsword or cutlass, they would be completely useless.

Hawkyns

I have one. It is very lightly constructed. I would not trust it against a fencing weapon. The originals were more robust. I used to know someone who made usable reproductions.

In period these were part of a series of gimmicks that were meant to surprise an opponent during a brawl just long enough to get a thrust through. These were used to catch an opponent's blade. Another type of dagger had a thick blade and a series of cuts on the back. You swept the blade upwards, trying to trap your opponent's blade in one of the cuts. By twisting your dagger you could hold his blade. Some of these had a spring closure on the top.

Another option was a trick rapier. I saw a picture of one that had a spring-loaded blade. At the touch of a button the blade would jump forward a few inches. For good measure, it had a hidden blade that would pop out of the pommel.

None of these would be allowed in a formal duel and your seconds would inspect your opponent's weapons, checking for tricks.

Mark

I have one of the thick bladed daggers with a series of cuts on the back. They are a lot bigger than they look and are quite sturdy. Definately something that would do the job better than the trident dagger.

[silas thatcher]

IIRC one of the muskateers used one in the 90's remake and broke an opponent's blade, but this is on sometimes bad memory... add in the hollywood factor and it becomes less believable...

i could see it being used to control your opponenet's rapier for a better chance of a good strike, but this is only a guess...

as hawkyns said, useless against anything else with a more substantial blade...

[michaelsbagley]

IIRC one of the muskateers used one in the 90's remake and broke an opponent's blade, but this is on sometimes bad memory... add in the hollywood factor and it becomes less believable...

Yeah, it was the Disney version with Keiffer Sutherland, Charlie Sheen, Oliver Platt, and others. It is the only place I had ever seen the thing used to break blades... In fact I think that version of the movie is the only time I have ever seen one of these used.

[1stMate Matt]

Perhaps First Mate Matt is willing to lend his creative talent toward building one of these. I think it would be a wonderful part of a Stage Combat phrase for the audience to see a fighter pop his trident and entangle his foes blade!

I wouldn't mind making one of these.

[PoD]

I just came across this Plug Bayonet version of a Trident dagger on the DKimages website