marlinspike seamanship- earliest dates??

[Hawkyns]

Marlinspike seamanship- the fancy knotwork used by sailors as a way to both pass the time and decorate their tools, etc.- when does it first appear? There are some extant examples from the 18th century, but most are from the 19th. Is there any proof that this sort of work existed in the 17th or back to the 16th century? Did Drake's and Raleigh's seadogs pass their time doing this? Any primary source artwork or extant pieces?

Thanks, All

Hawkyns

[MorganTyre]

Marlinspike seamanship- the fancy knotwork used by sailors as a way to both pass the time and decorate their tools, etc.- when does it first appear? There are some extant examples from the 18th century, but most are from the 19th. Is there any proof that this sort of work existed in the 17th or back to the 16th century? Did Drake's and Raleigh's seadogs pass their time doing this? Any primary source artwork or extant pieces?

Thanks, All

Hawkyns

You'll find many references to Leonardo Da Vinci having drawn turks-heads and that woven motif is certainly very popular in celtic "knotwork" so it's certain that the form predates our period but true "marlinspike seamanship" as we think of it didn't development as the artform it turned out to be until the mid to late 19th century with many of the specific knots that Clifford Ashley demonstrates attributed to specific captains or ships. This is likely to be one of those cases where I am sure it existed to one degree or another but anything beyond the classic turks-head or primarily practical knotwork (such as cockscombing, ring hitching, and grommets) will get you in to unknown territory. I think you are more likely to find historical evidence for chinese style knotting.

[Silver]

that is a very good question, in the navy i was surounded by this rope work. but i never give it a second thought as to it orgin. i was doing a living history one day and a woman asked if i had made a laynard that i had a boson pipe attached to. she said that she made thing like that when she was young and they called it macrame. i found that it was a craft of 13th century arab weavers.

[Graydog]

From what I have read, the metal Marlinspike was invented in the mid to late 19th century to be used in the splicing of metal cable, though it is also used on fiber rope. It essentially replaced the instrument previously used in splicing fiber rope called a “fid”. The earlier fid is made of wood, is not as slender as a marlinspike, and doesn’t work well with metal cable/lines. That’s about all I know, if that’s of any help. I do not have any information on the transition from fid to marlinspike vi-a-vi decorative knot making.

[MarkG]

From what I have read, the metal Marlinspike was invented in the mid to late 19th century to be used in the splicing of metal cable, though it is also used on fiber rope. It essentially replaced the instrument previously used in splicing fiber rope called a "fid". The earlier fid is made of wood, is not as slender as a marlinspike, and doesn't work well with metal cable/lines. That's about all I know, if that's of any help. I do not have any information on the transition from fid to marlinspike vi-a-vi decorative knot making.

Dictionary.com gives the origin of the word as going back to 1620-30. It is used differently from a fid. A fid is useful when you are splicing. A marlinspike can do this but it is also useful for teasing tights knots open.

Mark

[Fox]

From what I have read, the metal Marlinspike was invented in the mid to late 19th century to be used in the splicing of metal cable, though it is also used on fiber rope. It essentially replaced the instrument previously used in splicing fiber rope called a "fid". The earlier fid is made of wood, is not as slender as a marlinspike, and doesn't work well with metal cable/lines. That's about all I know, if that's of any help. I do not have any information on the transition from fid to marlinspike vi-a-vi decorative knot making.

Good old Nathaniel Butler (1630ish) defines 'Marling spikes' as small nails of iron, made of purpose for the splicing together of small ropes, as also to open the bolt-ropes when they sew them into the sails. A 'fid' he describes as a piece of iron made tapering and withal sharp at the end. But there are also fids of wood, which are much bigger than those of iron; though both are of one and the same use [splicing]

Decorative knots appear from the middle ages, but there's little evidence of 'marlinespike seamanship' until the 19thC.

[Poopdeck Pappy]

There seems to be some confusion between Marlinspike Seamanship and marlinspike as a tool. I am a Knot Tyer/Square Rig Sailor and I can tell you that Marlinspike Seamanship is alot more than fancy knotwork it includes baisc seamanship knots: bowline, reef knot, buntline hitch, etc, and it also includes splicing, seizing, lashing, coiling, whipping, worming, parceling, and serving line. Marlinspike Seamanship also uses many different tools like: the marlinspike of course, the heaving mallet, the rigging knife, fids, a heaver, a serving stick or mallet. Marlinspike Seamanship is the skill of handling line/rope correctly aboard ship be it belaying a line, tying a knot, or Ballantine coiling a halyard.

[Graydog]

Good old Nathaniel Butler (1630ish) defines 'Marling spikes' as small nails of iron, made of purpose for the splicing together of small ropes, as also to open the bolt-ropes when they sew them into the sails.

Well, obviously what I read was wrong. It’s rather disappointing that one can’t even trust information from what should have been a reputable source. Thank you for the clarification.