"Boarders Away!"

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Fine words indeed, Capt. Flint,

Being a sword "master" means having faced the ultimate challenge time and again and won. As I said in my last posting I doubt there's many alive today who can make that claim in truth. As for medieval groups, my comments were a generalization. If yours uses steel blades, then you know yourself it's a superior experience. You can guage an opponent's character through his blade when even his eyes won't give him away. I learned that through 28 years of Japanese swordsmanship. Now that's a regimen of training I'd recommend to anyone who really wants to learn the sword. The very word for it, "Iaido", means sword, body, and spirit working together in one harmonious unit. You see, the human body can only move in so many directions, in so many ways, and then it begins restricting itself. Over centuries, the Japanese sword masters (and these guys REALLY were) figured out the most efficient ways a person with a sword (or two) could effectively move and cut down an opponent or multiple opponents as quickly and economically as possible. And because it is so concise, there is no style or form of swordsmanship ever invented in the world that it cannot be applied to, and improved by that applicaton. I'm not saying every technique, but certainly the science of how the body and sword work together. I highly recommend it, but again must warn that here in the U.S. especially there are many who claim to teach it, and don't really know what they're doing. I suspect a lot of watching of videotaped episodes of "Highlander" and mimicking of moves shown in them. When I see these dubious techniques performed and ask the "teachers" what the technique is called, or what style they're from, they can't tell me. This seems to be a trend among storefront martial arts schools with dwindling enrollment as a gimick to build business back up, so beware.

Cordially,

Capt. Ian "Mad Dog" Davies,

Ye Pyrate Brotherhood

[Jocko]

Question then.... How does one go about locating trustworthy and knowledgeable instructors??

Jocko

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Jocko,

I'd say check out the websites of some of the reputable historical swordsmanship organizations like HACA, who require anyone representing them as a teacher to undergo thorough examination and accreditation. There are several of these organizations around the country, and they usually list contacts by region, so you can try to find someone close to where you live. Give me a chance and I'll be happy to make up a list of organizations I feel comortable referring you to and I'll post it here.

Cordially,

Capt Ian "Mad Dog" Davies,

Ye Pyrate Brotherhood

[Red Maria]

Ahoy all,

To reply to each in order:

Red Maria, you've a rare perception of the pyrate world. There's nothing so inspiring and worth fighting over as sex. Especially to a seadog who'd been shaking hands with 'imself and keeping 'is backside to the bulkhead for weeks on end. Contemporary accounts from Port Royal, Jamaica concur with your observation. Buccaneers probably saw more fighting there in a drunken week than they did in their whole careers at sea.

l

Mad Dog

It wasn't always over women. There is an account of a man in Port Royal who had to fight a duel because another man wouldn't stop hitting on him!

I agree about what what you said regarding safety. As someone who has studied both sport and theatrical fencing, safety is first in both disicplines. Even more so in theatircal fencing when there is little or no protection for the combatants.

I also agree about books vs actual physcial study of the art. I have done both. Right now I am trying to track down an Angelo book with 18th cent. cutlass drills in them.

As to other books I like are: "Schools & Masters of Fence" by Castle Egerton ; "Three Elzabethan Fencing Manuals" which includes: "His True Arte of Defence" by Giacomo di Grasse ; "His Practice" by Vincento Saviolo ; & "Paradoxes of Defence" & "Bref Instructions Upon My Paradoxes of Defence" by George Silver. Also "Old Swordplay" by Alfred Hutton. I have some late 19th cent. books on fencing & singlestick packed away and in storage whci I like as well.

Unfortunately I have been not able to practice much, this past year, as my sparing partner has been busy with film projects. So Iam a bit rusty

[Dorian Lasseter]

Ahoy Mad Dog!

Had a few thots on some of what ya said 'bout the books aforementioned... The Elizabethan swordplay definitely focuses on the rapier, the book works best if you have the weapon in hand to move thru the form whilst readin'... least that's how I got the most out of it...

The Clements book, I think, does pertain to use of the Cutlass, being a cut and thrust weapon... It gives ya a good hand up on the basics...

I also like the sections that put mixed weapons together i.e. Sword vs Pike...

Kinda reminds me of a scene from an ok pyrate movie "Swashbuckler"

If'n ya kin get past the silly clothing, the final fight scene was a duel between Cutlass n' Rapier...

Which brings up an interesting thot... in that scene the rapier gets "dismasted"... Most movies have the character toss away the ruined weapon, however He keeps it to further defend himself... I always thot it dumb to discard something, tho broken, that could still be a defence...

A'right, enought ramblin' from me...

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Ahoy all!

For Jocko and others who were wondering about reputable sword instruction, I think it best to refer you to the links at Sword Forum On Line (www.swordforum.com). From the listings there you can match up your particular interests with the region you live in. The site itself carries a wealth of information about swords of all kinds, their history, manufacture, and use. The discussion forums are interesting in themselves, but tend to reflect a lot of opinions based on speculation rather than accurate information or real experience. All in all it's a fine website to have a look at, so give it a try.

[capnwilliam]

Mad Dog, ye are indeed a treasure chest of information about swords and swordfighting! I will check that site out as soon as I batten down the hatches on this site.

Capt. William

:)

[capnwilliam]

Well. Mad Dog, I subscribed to the swordforum; now I have ye to thank fer getting me hooked on yet another source to feed me e-mail addiction!

Capt. William

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Capt. William,

You're most welcome. After all, if a pyrate serves no other purpose in life he should at least be an evil influence, no?

[Jamaica Rose]

if a pyrate serves no other purpose in life he should at least be an evil influence, no?

Mad Dog, m'luv -- I adore how you think!

Blackheartedly yrs,

--Jamaica Rose

"Pre-Emptive Salvage Specialist"

[Red Maria]

Ahoy all!

For Jocko and others who were wondering about reputable sword instruction, I think it best to refer you to the links at Sword Forum On Line (www.swordforum.com). From the listings there you can match up your particular interests with the region you live in. The site itself carries a wealth of information about swords of all kinds, their history, manufacture, and use. The discussion forums are interesting in themselves, but tend to reflect a lot of opinions based on speculation rather than accurate information or real experience. All in all it's a fine website to have a look at, so give it a try.

Yes Sword Forum is an excellent resource with many fine people on it. In fact I was with a few of the people that I have met online there just yesterday demonstrating their historical fighting skills at the SoCal Ren. Faire.

I was on the sidelines observing since was in 1) a heavily boned bodice, 2) I was sans rapier 3) haven't been able to practice for months since my sparring partner has been too busy. Ineed to find someone to practice with!

But it was great to watch and thereby learn. It was great to see some fine very period rapier techinque being done. So if Mario, Luc, Pax, Dave, or anyone from Bankeside is lurking thanks for showing this girl a good time.

I wonder what name since it has to be your real one you use on Sword Forum?

[Red Maria]

Well. Mad Dog, I subscribed to the swordforum; now I have ye to thank fer getting me hooked on yet another source to feed me e-mail addiction!

Capt. William

It'll be good to have you aboard Sword Forum Capt. William! I think this makes 3 places that we will have discussions on.

[Dorian Lasseter]

Greetings Bretheren,

In reference to the nameing of this here forum, How many of ya rabble own the Boarders Away books?

They are quite a treasure, very good resource...

Question, asside from a trusty Cutlass, what's ye favorite hand held lead slinger?

I have both a musket (Brown Bess) and a musket pistol (modified tower arms 1800 patern)

I've an itch ta get a musketoon...

Th' pistol's easy ta carry about, and would be the choice ta carry for boarding action, but a musketoon... Hehehehehehehe......

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Capt. Lasseter,

I chose an English Dragoon pistol with a 12-inch barrel in .61 for meself. It's everything I could want in a servicable sea pistol: well made, dependable, and quite beautiful.

[Booga]

Fine words indeed, Capt. Flint,

Being a sword "master" means having faced the ultimate challenge time and again and won. As I said in my last posting I doubt there's many alive today who can make that claim in truth.

Actually fencingmaster (wich I belive is the english word) is a title you earn much in the same way you earn the title lawyer. There is a long training with an exam in the end. This is a tradition that travels ceturies back in time. In the beginning the fencingmaster was the dude teaching soliders(mostly officers) to fence. In most older regiments in europe there still is a tradition of fencing kept alive with a fencingmaster. But fencingmasters are most easily found in sportfencing today. There is a widely spred rumour that these fencingmasters don't know anything about how people fenced with "real" weapons, this however is nothing more than bullshit. All real fencingmasters are thought how to fence with real weapons, even though it's not what they will be teaching.

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Fine words indeed, Capt. Flint,

Being a sword "master" means having faced the ultimate challenge time and again and won. As I said in my last posting I doubt there's many alive today who can make that claim in truth.

Actually fencingmaster (wich I belive is the english word) is a title you earn much in the same way you earn the title lawyer. There is a long training with an exam in the end. This is a tradition that travels ceturies back in time. In the beginning the fencingmaster was the dude teaching soliders(mostly officers) to fence. In most older regiments in europe there still is a tradition of fencing kept alive with a fencingmaster. But fencingmasters are most easily found in sportfencing today. There is a widely spred rumour that these fencingmasters don't know anything about how people fenced with "real" weapons, this however is nothing more than bullshit. All real fencingmasters are thought how to fence with real weapons, even though it's not what they will be teaching.

In truth I believe you're referring to the English "Masters of Defense" who indeed received that title only after completing an arduous program of training, and testing over a prescribed number of years, much the way "dan" rankings are conferred in traditional martial training in Japan. The way in which we each of us perceives the word "master", is, I think, a matter of semantics. The key. I believe, is the word "defence", from which the term "fencing" is derived. Those "Masters of Defence" lived in an historic period that witnessed the deregulation of swords from a privilage of the noble class and their retainers, to just about anyone who could afford to purchase a sword. This in turn debased the sword to an excuse for common street brawls by "swashbucklers", and eventually defamed academic sword training as the spawning ground of rogues and cuthroats. Anyone who carried a sword risked constant confrontation and had better know how to defend himself. To be a sword "master" meant survival on a near-daily basis. Given that, I maintain my contention that any title of "master" or "maestro" as applied to modern swordsmen or fencers is, at best, diluted by the absence of a true, intentionally life-threatening challenge in their experience.

[Dorian Lasseter]

Ah, Mad Dog,

I fine pistol, the Dragoon is...

Any one else care ta make known what they carry?

Also what style o' Cutlass ye prefer?

Short, curved blade? Long straight?

Hanger style, with just a knucklebow, or full cage hilt?

At this time I have two styles;

the Hanger, short, curved single edge with a 8" false back edge, brass hilt with a knucklebow. I have 4 o' these... 3 ta lend out, one which I carry most often I've leather wrapped the handle.

The Cutlass, a wee bit longer, heavier tipped falcion styled blade, steel cup knucklebow, wood handle... need ta make a scabbard for it tho...

I do like some o' the straight bladed ones... tho they just don't seem right ta be called a cutlass...

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Capt. Lasseter,

I have three blades that I alternate between for pyrate reenacting.

Two are "Mortuary" swords, identical, apart from one having a live blade and the other a rebated blade. The latter, also known as a "backsword" was popular among "stage gladiators" during the 17th-19th centuries. These were basically paid duellists who fought endurance bouts with rebated blades before a paying audience. Mine has blackened iron fittings leather-wrapped wood handle, and a black laquered wood scabbard. It's my choice for most of my pyrate activities. Its a perfect weight, size, and balance. The blade is tough and agile. The live sword has polished fittings,and wire "Turk's heads" capping a leather-over-wood handle. This is my dress sword. Too dangerous for any practical use, but a real beauty. Either would be suitable at sea, but are just right for tavern brawls and street confrontations. My third blade is a c.1700 Dutch cutlass from Museum Replicas. It has a wood grip, and steel guard with clamshell handguard, and curved, open-ended knuckle bow. this is my sea-service cutlass and just right for "wet work" on a prize deck. I also own several fine rapiers, but associate them more with Elizabethan Seadogs than later 17th century Buccaneering, which is what we of Ye Pyrate Brotherhood prefer to reenact. This is not to say rapiers weren't in use at that time, but their use at sea was minimal, and their popularity waning, with the small sword gaining favor as a lighter, faster weapon.

[Dorian Lasseter]

Capt. Mad Dog,

I'd nay thought of th' mortuary sword... It appears I'll be havin' an eye out fer one o' them.... Or possibly a Schiavona.... tho that has a heavier blade, not as fast as yer backsword...

I've looked at the Dutch Cutlass many times... Is it quite sturdy? Would Ye trust yer life to it?

I have "field tested" most o' me blades and have found all but one to be up ta snuff...

Aye, the rapier was "on its way out" during the Golden Age, and the small sword was readily taking its place...

Fer that matter the Rapier was much more of a land based weapon, not practical aboard ships... ever try havin' a rapier fight in a narrow hallway? Tis quite a challenge...

Also just about impossible to hack a bit o' rigging apart with one!

[Booga]

In truth I believe you're referring to the English "Masters of Defense" who indeed received that title only after completing an arduous program of training, and testing over a prescribed number of years, much the way "dan" rankings are conferred in traditional martial training in Japan. The way in which we each of us perceives the word "master", is, I think, a matter of semantics. The key. I believe, is the word "defence", from which the term "fencing" is derived. Those "Masters of Defence" lived in an historic period that witnessed the deregulation of swords from a privilage of the noble class and their retainers, to just about anyone who could afford to purchase a sword. This in turn debased the sword to an excuse for common street brawls by "swashbucklers", and eventually defamed academic sword training as the spawning ground of rogues and cuthroats. Anyone who carried a sword risked constant confrontation and had better know how to defend himself. To be a sword "master" meant survival on a near-daily basis. Given that, I maintain my contention that any title of "master" or "maestro" as applied to modern swordsmen or fencers is, at best, diluted by the absence of a true, intentionally life-threatening challenge in their experience.

I do not think we are talking about the same thing, since you seem to be talking history...

The tradition of "fencingmasters"(the swedish word is "fäktmästare") is still very much alive. Many of the headcoaches of the nationalteams in FIE are fencingmasters. Especially those from eastern europe. In France, Hungary, Sweden, Russia and many other counties I _know_ you more or less have to be a fencingmaster to be accepted as a serious fencingcoach. The club I used to train for had fencingmaster Bela Rerrich as headcoach, he coached Sweden to several olympic goldmedals in the 70's. The tradition of wich he is part of is old, very old. And more importantly, it is unbroken. Since this tradition is still alive I actually think it is a little without respect to re-invent the title while there still are people wearing it with pride after a long period of training.

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

I agree, we are obviously not talking about the same thing, as you seem to be talking about a sport. Since this forum topic is supposed to be devoted to historical pyrate combat, my opinions are historically based. As for disrespecting the fencing masters you refer to, on the contrary, they have my complete admiration, as would anyone who has devoted themselves to the mastery of a skill. This would include master chefs, master craftsmen, and so on. As for reinventing titles, I would not dream of reinventing a title that has been carried for centuries, earned by actual swordsmen, at risk to their lives. What I did say is that the issue was a matter of semantics (what words mean) and that in my opinion, the sword master, as we've come to apply it to swordsmanship, and especially sport fencing today, cannot mean the same thing as it once did, because it is devoid of the experience of intentionally life-threatening encounters.

[capnwilliam]

As to what swords were period in the Golden Age, and using that term in its looser sense (1680 - 1730): this era was indeed one of the smallsword, not the rapier. However, a shorter-bladed hanger/cutlass would have the edge over both, in the close confines of a boarding action.

BTW, rapiers have acquired an image as being very narrow bladed weapons, but such was not always the case. Many earlier rapiers had blades as broad as the medieval broadswords they replaced. First Mate Jan and I spent the past week in St. Augustine. Menendez' blade is on display at the fort, and this one (1500's)...well, I daresay few modern swordsman could wield it!

As to the Boarders Away books: I have the first one about edged weapons, and it is great! I've not read the second one about firearms.

Capt. William

[Capt. "Mad Dog" Davies]

Ahoy Capt. William,

Your observations about rapiers are correct, for they were made in many different configuratons. Many factors lent to this, and not the least was a reluctance on the part of traditionally-minded military men (Englishmen especially) to adopt what they considered to be a civilian weapon that was good for thrusting and little else. But that, after all, defines the rapier and the techniques that developed around it. The wider-bladed versions were intended to retain as much cutting ability as possible while conforming to the trend towards lighter, faster swords. The Spanish adhered to their distinctive cup-hilt rapiers long after most of Europe had abandoned rapiers for the lighter, faster small sword and its variants. Spanish naval officers also seemed to prefer rapiers. All in all, I think that our association with the rapier as a pyrate weapon comes largely from the romantic and beautiful, though often innacurate illustrations of Howard Pyle, which were used by art directors of early swahbuckler movies as a reference. Hence Errol Flynn and countless others fencing with cup-hilt rapiers in all those early films. An excellent look at pyrate swords and weapons in general can be found in Men at Arms magazine, vol. 4, no. 1, January/February, 1982, available as a back issue from Mowbray Company, the publishers of "Boarders Away!".

[Dorian Lasseter]

As to the Boarders Away books: I have the first one about edged weapons, and it is great! I've not read the second one about firearms.

Capt. William

Cap'n William,

Tis good that ye've read th' first book... Ye must read th' second, tis excellent, and is actually the second half... Borders Away was originally intended as one book, but Master Gilkerson found far too much information ta skimp out an' make only one volume...

I actually bought th' second book first, if'n they had both been on th' shelf at th' same time I'd have gone mad tryin ta decide which ta buy first, fore I couldn't afford 'em both at once...

Anyone doin' Maritime Reenacting NEEDS these books...

[capnwilliam]

Well, I've commenced my practice of cutlass fighting, in a round-about way...I had me fencing instructor give me my first lesson in sabre. Fun, but hard to get used to for someone who's background was in thrust-only epee, and SCA rapier.

I calc'late I'll try to pick up the basics of cut fighting with the fencing sabre, and then move on to a more substantial weapon.

Capt. William