Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Sorry about that post really, i did not meanfor it to be so snarky. I wasn't meaning to target anyone, but it sure looks like it re-reading it. my appologies to any who were offended, I was in a hurry but not an excuse. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Sorry, Ransom, I don't think there is another side to this. Dumb and dangerous is dumb and dangerous, no excuses. He was firing live cannon rounds in an at least partially inhabited area. You fire live rounds at an approved range only, not in your back yard. It is the responsibility of the range owner, in this case the cannon owner, to make sure that there is nothing that can cause a ricochet. The side of a hill can hold rocks, trees, even hard packed dirt that can cause skips and ricochets. Hell, that's part of all the manuals, knowing how to skip cannonballs off the ground. I don't care if he's a history buff, re-enactor, or redneck hick - what he is is a cannon owner and the people who don't like us don't much care why we own them. They just look for ways to get "dangerous weapons" out of the hands of the public. I've owned and fired cannon for 25 years. I don't want to stop because somebody screwed up, freak accident or not. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Misson Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) If you can't control your drinking and/or smoking something other than tobacco, and you can't abide by the safety rules laid down by the event, stay away from the battle or stay home. Yeah, but this guy did stay home. That was the whole problem. Rules shouldn't be made to protect the irresponsible. On that front, I agree with Silkie; if you do something completely stupid, you have to own up to it and make it right. Otherwise we end up with a tangled web of laws that are either impossible to follow or prohibitive to everyone else. There are and always will be people doing foolish things and if we have to protect ourselves from every randomly idiotic possibility they manage to discover, we won't be able to leave our beds eventually. (Like in Wall*E :) ) Then we'll all weigh 600 pounds and scoot around on pre-defined tracks under the byzantine rule of a robot on a monorail track. Doing drugs and getting drunk and then handling weapons on the field is not only irresponsible but also stupid...and if you read my post I was following/replying to captscruvy although I did not quote him, obviously I was referring to his comment about people who are taking the field who know they are breaking the rules set out by events for safety reasons. People like that have a very strong potential for putting us all out of "business", I was not referring to the idiot with the cannon. I still say folks that do that and know what they are doing should stay away from the field, stay home or be tossed from the event. I don't view that as protecting the irresponsible but holding them accountable for their dumb arse actions at events. Actually, I responded to your post that way because I thought it was funny, but I agree that rules need to be established and policed at events regarding weapons. A lot of alcohol sloshes around events and there's no arguing that alcohol and weapons (and they are weapons, no matter what current loophole they fall through) are a bad combo. The second paragraph wasn't really a response to your post, it was just a comment on the issue behind this episode. When there is a nation of 300+ million people doing tens of thousands of things every day, the most idiotic things are going to happen. There isn't much that can be done about that. However, I believe individuals need to take responsibility for their actions, however stupid they are. (And people aren't stupid, some of the things they do are. Each of us does stupid things, that's not the issue. The issue is what happens as a result.) This guy seems to have taken some responsibility for the whole thing and no one was harmed, which will probably dampen any fallout from this incident. I'm not even arguing with anyone's comments, nor have I been, I'm just spouting off on the larger problem behind the incident. We're all talking about this one guy and what happened and ignoring the elephant in the room. We all live in fear of Them taking away our right to buy black powder weapons. That's sad. Making laws to protect people from every random incident like this is to fritter away the freedom to do potentially harmful things. (And it's not just us - it applies to roller coasters, bungie jumping, hunting, rock climbing, white water boating, archery, flying and any number of other crazy things people do for fun.) The problem isn't some guy and his cannon, it's that it was publicized and there is probably a lingering notion in some people's minds that something needs to be done about it (which usually means, "make a law prohibiting access to cannons" or whatever.) Some day, something awful is going to happen at a event, despite the well thought out rules and best attempts to police ourselvees. It's a matter of time and odds. (Which is not to say that policing shouldn't happen, it should. Without this the odds go up dramatically.) What will happen as a result is the issue. What should happen is that people should take responsibility for whatever thing they've done instead of relying on some outside organization to force responsibility on both them and, more importantly, the much, much larger group of people who act responsibly. Edited September 5, 2009 by Raphael Misson “We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” –Carlos Casteneda "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." — Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) I really don't think folks are ignoring the elephant, as most here seem to be of the opinion that such irresponsible behavior unfortunately has the potential to ruin things for all of us. Most folks here, that I know, are also of the same opinion that everyone should be held accountable for their actions and that there should be consequences for the wrong actions. Problem being is it seems a lot of the media folk and them like minded, don't seem to agree and are pushing a different agenda for what ever reasons and the rest of us remain a bit too quiet. Edited September 5, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleneckhalfshell Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 When there is a nation of 300+ million people doing tens of thousands of things every day, the most idiotic things are going to happen. There isn't much that can be done about that. However, I believe individuals need to take responsibility for their actions, however stupid they are. (And people aren't stupid, some of the things they do are. Each of us does stupid things, that's not the issue. The issue is what happens as a result.) This guy seems to have taken some responsibility for the whole thing and no one was harmed, which will probably dampen any fallout from this incident. I'm not even arguing with anyone's comments, nor have I been, I'm just spouting off on the larger problem behind the incident. We're all talking about this one guy and what happened and ignoring the elephant in the room. We all live in fear of Them taking away our right to buy black powder weapons. That's sad. Making laws to protect people from every random incident like this is to fritter away the freedom to do potentially harmful things. (And it's not just us - it applies to roller coasters, bungie jumping, hunting, rock climbing, white water boating, archery, flying and any number of other crazy things people do for fun.) The problem isn't some guy and his cannon, it's that it was publicized and there is probably a lingering notion in some people's minds that something needs to be done about it (which usually means, "make a law prohibiting access to cannons" or whatever.) Some day, something awful is going to happen at a event, despite the well thought out rules and best attempts to police ourselvees. It's a matter of time and odds. (Which is not to say that policing shouldn't happen, it should. Without this the odds go up dramatically.) What will happen as a result is the issue. What should happen is that people should take responsibility for whatever thing they've done instead of relying on some outside organization to force responsibility on both them and, more importantly, the much, much larger group of people who act responsibly. I vote for Misson for President of the common sense party! If common sense were not apparently 'outlawed' there would be a lot less 'reactionary laws' passed in this nation and the liberal media just uses things like this to fuel their push to abolish personal liberty and have everything under the control of the Aristocracy (read- Life long liberal government hacks) NJ is one of the worst states for this reactionary law making, even the Sling Shot was banned here because someone did something stupid with one. No Fear Have Ye of Evil Curses says you... Aye,... Properly Warned Ye Be says I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hmmm makes you wonder, if the country continues along these lines, if common sense will cease to exist...we certainly don't seem to encourage it any more...even in the schools... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mission Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I wouldn't even label it as being liberal. This has been going on for decades under both parties leadership. That's why I like the Franklin quote so well. "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin A lot of very well-meaning people want to protect us into meek oblivion. (Not to mention a lot of lawyers.) Mycroft: "My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?" John: "I don't know." Mycroft: "Neither do I. But initially he wanted to be a pirate." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Existentialism!!! That's the ticket! Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." -Benjamin Franklin couldn't agree more...and I think it was Shakespeare that had a good quote about lawyers.. Edited September 5, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartermaster James Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 couldn't agree more...and I think it was Shakespeare that had a good quote about lawyers.. Yes, but don't take it out of context. See more here: The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Not that I'm defending them, per se: I work with them, and...well, I'm not going to post anything here that might be misconstrued as murderous intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyBrower Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) Hmmm makes you wonder, if the country continues along these lines, if common sense will cease to exist...we certainly don't seem to encourage it any more...even in the schools... No way man, they TOTALLY teach common sense in schools, it was that thing written by that guy a long time ago about stuff.... Problem is common sense is not common between populations. The assumption that everyone shares the same "common sense" in terms of safety is naive and dangerous. Generally speaking, it makes perfect sense to fire into an open, privately owned field. THAT is the common part of the sense. The rest has to do with how much you know, about ricochet physics and all that. Plus the addition of the shot, the neighboring houses, etc.... (though my personal belied is that it should be common sense not to fire an actual shot UNLESS there was some experiment taking place that we don't know about- about cannon fire, etc. Maybe? anyway...) I'm getting a little tangled in my thoughts... but this is not common sense stuff. This is going to go slightly off topic but, I would really like to see crews getting together and creating safety standards for events- guidelines for newbies PRINTED and even signed contracts for individual crew members. As of yet, black powder is not all that regulated, although I think in NY you cannot have powder and shot or it IS considered a weapon, but there SHOULD be some sort of test. Especially when it comes to a cannon, even if there is nothing being fired from it, it is still very dangerous. Too much powder, improper use... its really frightening. I would like to see a course, even if it is informally done, for safety purposes. Sorry, that was my rant. I've been accused of acting like a mommy, but I want all my "boys" to be safe, and I am not afraid to beat the hell out of them if they are not acting appropriately. - All this said, perhaps another thread (stickied?) is in order for safety, resources, ideas etc... or is that somewhere and I haven't seen it? I'd really like a quiz.... Sorry again for the discombobulated thought process. Edited September 5, 2009 by LadyBrower Cook and Seamstress to the Half Moon Marauders Lady Brower's Treasures, Clothing and other treasures Hell Hath No Fury like the Wrath of a Woman... No that's it. She doesn't need a reason. www.myspace.com/halfmoonmarauders www.myspace.com/faerienoodle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Black Jack Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hmmm makes you wonder, if the country continues along these lines, if common sense will cease to exist...we certainly don't seem to encourage it any more...even in the schools... Common sense only exits in 10% of the population, the fringe population of this country. When you use common sense people think something is wrong with you, so less and less people use it. They all want to be too cool for their own good, its a problem. I wont even get on to US schools, I have been fighting with the school department for years, they are ridiculous! Didi you know that they don't even teach handwriting any more??? WTF? The dumb shall inherit the Earth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captscurvy_nc Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Hmmm makes you wonder, if the country continues along these lines, if common sense will cease to exist...we certainly don't seem to encourage it any more...even in the schools... Common sense only exits in 10% of the population, the fringe population of this country. When you use common sense people think something is wrong with you, so less and less people use it. They all want to be too cool for their own good, its a problem. I wont even get on to US schools, I have been fighting with the school department for years, they are ridiculous! Didi you know that they don't even teach handwriting any more??? WTF? The dumb shall inherit the Earth.... I share your pain with schools. My autistic 5 year old had a letter sent home by his Kindergarden teacher saying they are working on the letter C and the first three days of the week. My son is Autistic, not an idiot. There is no one in his room that is not beyond that level. His preschool teacher at his last school had him saying the months, daays of the week and even setting the big clock in the classroom after two months of school starting. And this one is supposed to be a magnet school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 couldn't agree more...and I think it was Shakespeare that had a good quote about lawyers.. Yes, but don't take it out of context. See more here: The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. Not that I'm defending them, per se: I work with them, and...well, I'm not going to post anything here that might be misconstrued as murderous intent. LOL... we were doing a hanging down at Beaufort... and a guy in the audience raises his hand and says "I'm a lawyer! I'll defend the captain!" Audience immediately turned on the poor guy and shouted..."Hang HIM instead!" Even Maddogge had to fight not to laugh... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 (edited) Hmmm makes you wonder, if the country continues along these lines, if common sense will cease to exist...we certainly don't seem to encourage it any more...even in the schools... No way man, they TOTALLY teach common sense in schools, it was that thing written by that guy a long time ago about stuff.... Problem is common sense is not common between populations. The assumption that everyone shares the same "common sense" in terms of safety is naive and dangerous. Generally speaking, it makes perfect sense to fire into an open, privately owned field. THAT is the common part of the sense. The rest has to do with how much you know, about ricochet physics and all that. Plus the addition of the shot, the neighboring houses, etc.... (though my personal belied is that it should be common sense not to fire an actual shot UNLESS there was some experiment taking place that we don't know about- about cannon fire, etc. Maybe? anyway...) I'm getting a little tangled in my thoughts... but this is not common sense stuff. This is going to go slightly off topic but, I would really like to see crews getting together and creating safety standards for events- guidelines for newbies PRINTED and even signed contracts for individual crew members. As of yet, black powder is not all that regulated, although I think in NY you cannot have powder and shot or it IS considered a weapon, but there SHOULD be some sort of test. Especially when it comes to a cannon, even if there is nothing being fired from it, it is still very dangerous. Too much powder, improper use... its really frightening. I would like to see a course, even if it is informally done, for safety purposes. Sorry, that was my rant. I've been accused of acting like a mommy, but I want all my "boys" to be safe, and I am not afraid to beat the hell out of them if they are not acting appropriately. - All this said, perhaps another thread (stickied?) is in order for safety, resources, ideas etc... or is that somewhere and I haven't seen it? I'd really like a quiz.... Sorry again for the discombobulated thought process. Problem with this is everyone has their own ideas regarding standards... some of us even have our own ideas about how much we should self regulate, we get to a point where we can regulate ourselves right into a corner and them that don't like what we do will have the upper hand... what thread was it here, where certain reenactment groups want to ban pistols from the battle field??? Gee doesn't sound too good for pirates that.... As to teaching the basics in schools, common sense, accountability, responsibility and consequences is becoming a dying art in the school system... at least down in my neck of the woods... more like...nothing you do is really wrong, and we have to accept everything and anything that anyone does as all right. Oh and down here, they don't even know who Thomas Paine was... Edited September 5, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I wont even get on to US schools, I have been fighting with the school department for years, they are ridiculous! Didi you know that they don't even teach handwriting any more??? WTF? The dumb shall inherit the Earth.... Oh we still teach handwriting in Virginia... we just gloss over grammar instead... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Black Jack Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 Due to all the nonsense with my 10 year old's schooling up here I am ba ck to school myself, getting that teaching degree I always wanted. The have put a stop to history and science here, grouping them with math and English...the schools are a joke. If it was for me my son would know nothing about history and science. What they don't teach I teach, its the only way. Which leads me to wonder if this guy with the cannon was educated or not. You would think that someone with a bit of intelligence and education would not be shooting a cannon, live, in his back yard. I know people who have swivel guns on their decks, over the water out side Boston, who fire them all the time, but with not with shot. Again, even smart people do stupid things sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captscurvy_nc Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I don't have a leg to stand on here in NC when it comes to schools, pretty sure we are still ranked 35th in the nation for bad pay for teachers and low test scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Misson Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 (edited) Which leads me to wonder if this guy with the cannon was educated or not. You would think that someone with a bit of intelligence and education would not be shooting a cannon, live, in his back yard. I know people who have swivel guns on their decks, over the water out side Boston, who fire them all the time, but with not with shot. Again, even smart people do stupid things sometimes. Ah, you know how these things happen. You wonder if you can get away with something, so you try it. It works! So you try it again, still being cautious and it works again! So you keep doing it, eventually shedding the caution because nothing has gone wrong so far and you don't see why it will and then the accident happens. Everyone here has done this. If you say you haven't, you're probably not thinking hard enough the things that have happened to you or you're very young. I would like to re-iterate that people are not dumb, the things they do are dumb, or ill-considered, or unfortunate. Humans learn much by making mistakes and not repeating them (we hope). Hopefully they make the mistakes doing things that do not involve potential for death. But that's going to happen too. I wonder how many blackpowder re-enactment shots have been fired in the last 30 years without any harm being done? Tens of thousands? Millions? Billions? Statistically I'll bet the odds of being hurt are very, very small. Unfortunately, this is a silent statistic that can never be gathered. The whole thing only comes to the fore when that statistically unlikely, but possible, tragic accident occurs. This is why I don't care for the well-meaning censurers-cum-activist demanders of law creation. They want to restrict our activity based on outliers and exceptions to the usual. However, I also think it's smart for event coordinators to police the re-enactors. Because that same process of, "Well, I didn't hurt anyone last time I fired my bp weapon drunk," is always out there. Edited September 6, 2009 by Raphael Misson “We either make ourselves miserable or we make ourselves strong. The amount of work is the same.” –Carlos Casteneda "Man is free at the moment he wishes to be." — Voltaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Well said sir! -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba Rue Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Some idiots are made, this guy was hatched.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capn Bob Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 Late tho I be in replyin'...he shoulda used a Nerf cannonball... Not really sure where to post this but, I'm putting dibs on this guy. http://www.thepittsb...570/detail.html Damn, thats sharp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 A Wham-O Superball woulda been cool. But it probly woulda taken out the space lab. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Now, that would have been cool - I could see the headlines - space age toy takes out space age station. huh, somewhere I think I have a Superball that will fit in my doglock. -- Hurricane -- Hurricane ______________________________________________________________________ http://piratesofthecoast.com/images/pyracy-logo1.jpg Captain of The Pyrates of the Coast Author of "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Year Before the Mast" (Published in Fall 2011) Scurrilous Rogue Stirrer of Pots Fomenter of Mutiny Bon Vivant & Roustabout Part-time Carnival Barker Certified Ex-Wife Collector Experienced Drinking Companion "I was screwed. I readied my confession and the sobbing pleas not to tell my wife. But as I turned, no one was in the bed. The room was empty. The naked girl was gone, like magic." "Memoirs of a Buccaneer: 30 Years Before the Mast" - Amazon.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionntan Murtaugh Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 That is just ...frightening ...the superball that is ...the other is just 20/20 hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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