Shake-&-Bake accents

[William Brand]

I was speaking with a friend years ago about the pirate hobby when he said, "Do you know why I hate pirate re-enactors and hobbyists? They all come from some imaginary country that utilizes a Cockney-Welsh-Lancashire-Northumberland dialect. Then, if this isn't enough, they add a little Jamaican-Australian-Voodoo-Nyaaahwleens (New Orleans) twist just to sound more piratey. Are there no true New Englanders? Are there no pirates from Spain?"

He's not wrong. It does happen more often then not. People equate a bad hodge-podge of British Isle accents with piracy, often to the point of channeling Peter Ustinov from Blackbeard's Ghost.

What troubles me even more than this is the poor execution of accents styles throughout the Pub itself. The only thing worse than people affecting a bad accent in person is trying to read their mismatched interpretations of it in chat or in threads. The misuse of language as a tool even extends to the alteration of the very definition of words.

Example: 'Aye' is not a pronoun...objective, subjective or otherwise. 'Aye' does not mean 'I'. 'Aye' is an affirmative and is used as an answer showing agreement or acceptance. It is commonly used in place of 'yes'.

I have to wonder sometimes what our members from England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales must think of our general misuse of the King's English, especially as we try to portray accents at events. For myself, I don't try to utilize an accent at all, preferring instead to concentrate on the use of vocabulary and the art of speaking with clarity. After all, I'm from the West where people pronounce 'wheel' as 'will' and 'meal' as 'mill'. I also catch myself dropping the 't' out of mountains so it comes out sounding like mou'uhns.

This is not to say that people should not attempt regional accents and localized dialects if they can do them. Such accents can be a vital addition to a character portrayal, just as much as a poor use of them can lead to character betrayal. As you improve kit, improve speech. You don't want to ruin the display of good kit and a well planned presentation with an execution of amateur dramatics that raises Monty Python to high art.

[Ransom]

I agree with this completely. When I first joined the Pub and started posting in the PR story, I purposely chose not to have Ransom speak or write with any sort of fake accent. No offense to anyone, but to me they sound awkward at best, and downright silly and cartoonish at worst. Most are impossible to read. The only characters I give accents to are Scott, and I take the few words I use, and the spelling, directly from a book written by a woman from Scotland, and the book is exceptionally good historical fiction.

When at events, I may lower my voice to something a little gruffer, but I don't take on a fake Arrrrhhh, accent. It just doesn't work for me. The only time I have taken on the Arrrhhh accent, is when joking around, not when I'm in character. Besides, Ransom's fictional background would actually give her an upper-class plummy accent, but I don't attempt that either.

[Dorian Lasseter]

Here-here!

Sadly, in the past I used to affect the 'Newton Dialect' for such things...

These days it's an interesting thing. If it is wanted I will add an accent to my character for an event or whatnot.

I have done what studying I can by listening to the dialects and such from where my character is from.

In most cases I'll just use a light Irish accent, bordering on Scottish. In some ways think of Sean Connery, He has a light Scots Accent that comes out when angered or emotional.

Having friends who have traveled and are living abroad I've been complimented on my success at imitating a couple accents.

Gloswegian, Londinian and Northern Irish and a Frenchman speaking very poor English.

My two favourite instances of 'tricking' people;

Many years ago being in a silly mood, I was speaking not cockney, but kinda lower class London. Had a coworker tell me later a gal that was there asked where in England I was from as her boyfriend was from England too...

This past 4th of July at Fort Niagara, I must have spoken prefect French to a woman asking for an item (I'm attached to a French F&I unit) as she almost didn't know how to respond to what I wanted. The transaction was completed and when I said 'Merci', she stumbled in her response; "Your wel- ah, thank - *smile* "

Very entertaining...

Watch foreign films, or just foreign actors, not just in a film but doing interviews as they're not acting but being themselves.

Try reading books, manuscripts, etc from the period to understand sentence structure... it all adds up...

[callenish gunner]

Aye William, I have to agree with you. Often times, I feel I need to translate the attempts of some on the pub especially to make heads or tails of what they're trying to say. At events I have heard "Robert Newton on Methamphetamines or crack". ....I have an accent that I have had all my life and even with almost 40 years of living in America it is still here (be it not as strong as it once was unless I get to drinking ...then you have to smooth it out with a trowel). It's about communication first and foremost; if your message is lost all the character AARRRGGHHHING isn't going to save you.

Most folks I speak with have little trouble understanding me, they may not always know the words or phrases I use at all times, so I try to adapt to their ear not just repeat or yell at them! Accents work for those who have them or can learn them and learn them well ! Written dialect seldom works well when the language is distorted beyond recognition JIMHO!!!

[Rumba Rue]

Well I can do a pretty good Irish accent when I want to....in fact so well that at the Irish Faire that use to be held at Santa Anita Racetrack in Pasadena, some people from Ireland actually thought I was from there and asked what part of Ireland I came from.

That's when I broke out my California Valley girl talk.....that pretty much blew them away!

[Silkie McDonough]

It will likely surprise some that I to agree.

I agree that posting in a dialect is difficult on the reader and often too much work to bother reading. I have posted many times using my Irish "dialect". It can't be read in silence, this is likely because I spell it as I speak it. I know it takes work to read it because it takes work to write it! lol I have stopped that practice save for a few sentences here and there ...and when I do it these days I often include a translation. lol

For all my past transgressions I beg forgiveness. In the future I vow to use it only in quotes and keep it out of the narration.

As to my spoken dialect the Irish often turns towards Scottish because the many conversations I have had with Callenish in the past but I have been told I do a good job of it. Towards the end of a 3 month semester in England (many years back) I was accused of affecting an American accent. lol The English dialect had taken root. My Issue with using a dialect at an event is holding it. I must beguin to practice "turning" it on and off or just keep it even in the after hours of the event not just when needed.

I also vow to find a better spell checker.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Silkie McDonough

[LadyBrower]

bah. I don't know what to say about this, except that sometimes, it is just plain fun! I don't agree with using a bad accent at a reenactment, or using poorly typed words on a forum, but to type how you speak is not so bad, me thinks. I type " 'tis" a bit as I do tend to say it in "real life." and so on and so forth... But all in all, in some places I think it is just for fun so long as it doesn't get in the way of the conversation or what you are trying to say.

But again, I do agree these made up accents/ bad have no real place at events.

[Kian McBrian]

I dont try and put on an accent, I am in the same boat as Hugh...I have a slight accent (I dont hear it, but my friends do) as it is now, but once I start drinking....well lets just say my old man and I understand each other lol...all of my friends smile and nod...now if I try to put on an accent...I sound worse I think...

As far as typing an accent...no bueno IMO....I end up skipping them since I dont feel like 'translating' or trying to make sense of it

I just type as I would normally think...which is why I use so many ellipsis when I type I guess lol

[William Brand]

... but to type how you speak is not so bad, me thinks. I type " 'tis" a bit as I do tend to say it in "real life." and so on and so forth... But all in all, in some places I think it is just for fun so long as it doesn't get in the way of the conversation or what you are trying to say.

Aye.

I sometimes type a soft 'g' especially when using a word like jonesin'. It's the blatant misuse of words that gets under my skin. I've seen people abbreviate every word in a sentence to the point that I can't decipher it without reading the same sentence three and four times.

[CaptainSatan]

I blame Mauschwitz.

[René la Gaffe]

Im with lady brower, because i generally type how i talk, i often say aye in real life and well at tis and other antiquated words...bbuutt i do try my best to put them in the right place. Funny enough , when im dressed up , i dont even attempt an accent(french of english) and i can actually do a pretty good english accent, because most of my family is from brixton(near london...well in it really)........................ on a side note, i must say that callenishes accent quite good(forgot to complement you on it at blackbeards)...............especially at events where we are trying to convay an accurate portrayal to the public, over the top accents should be right out, bbuutt if we are all just out for a good time, do what makes you happy......p.s. i hope no one thinks my little french bits are serious, just fooling till french classes start..adieu

[William Brand]

We should take a poll on how many people use 'Aye' in day to day conversation. I use it so often now that people smile at me when I do and it takes me a moment to figure out why.

[Raphael Misson]

I dunno. If folks want to type in what they perceive as an accent, I don't see where it really matters that much. It does sometimes make reading their posts challenging, but if it gets to be too much, I just don't finish reading them. (We each have that option.) I figure if typing "aye," even incorrectly, pushes their buttons...more power to them. They just have to understand that not everyone will want to read their posts. In fact, I imagine they already do. But I can't see excoriating folks - even in a small way - for playing around. We are all just playing here.

http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/w/whycanttheenglish.shtml

For myself, I intend to write like the 17th and 18th century surgeons going forward in this forum. Just like my surgeon hero John Woodall:

"In vvant of Licorice take iuice of Locorice halfe an ounce. In vvant of french barley take other barley, or for a neede wheat flower, boyle this gently to 4 or 5 quarts, then cleare it, and if it may be, keepe it not in the brasse pott, but in some earthen or glasse vessell, and if the party his heat be great, and have paine in his head, adde thereto so many drops of oyle or spirit of Vitrioll, as will a little change the taste sovverish, but not too tarte in any vvise; and if into all this drinke you put of Rose water, of wine vineger and Cinamon water, of ech only one spoonefull, it will doe well to mend the taste, if you have it, if not the matter is not great, let the Patient drinke often hereof. Further you may if you thinke good adde sirupe or iuice of Lemons {ounces} 4. If it be for one which is loose in his belly you may infuse of your succus Acatia herein some 2 or 3 {ounces}, and being cleared let him drinke warmed, and so put it into the rest. Also in want of Acatia if you put therein Galls in powder a litle, it will do well.” (Woodall, p. 35-6)

Edited August 1, 2009 by Raphael Misson

[Guest]

Aaargh... now I be kinda guilty a' that.... But it be when I be postin' silly stuff, an if th' page ain't fulla underlined words an such....I bee dooin' somethin' wrong......

And at Faire, I kinda talk like that to the public...It's expected...

But at PiP, I just talk like normal. (I was going to type "at a reenactment", but PiP is the only one that I go to...)

[bonneylass]

I think each person has their own reasons and motivations for dressing in pirate garb. Some are seriously delving into historical study, in which case only authentic accents should be attempted. Others just enjoy "bein' a pirate", in which case, why not have fun and be a little outrageous? Certainly in this vast world there's room for both types and everyone in between...

[Capn Bob]

I do use "Aye" (as an affirmative" in everyday talk...I usually get blank looks. As for my using a dialect or accent...I don't. 12 years growing up in the Army has resulted in my already having an accent that no one can identify, and I've been tagged as German, French, Brit, Irish, Scottish, Aussie, and even Libyan (admittedly, that was when I had a beard you could hide a badger in), and I don't remember what all else.

So...no false accents for me...things are bad enough with what I got.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Hate to throw water on the bad accent debate, but guess what? If you stop and think about regional dialect, what do you think started them? Combinations of languages/accents from differetn immigrant groups converging throughout history, also known as "creole" languages. Sailors among pyrates were a very diverse lot to be sure. Before you go blasting on bad accent's let me ask who among you can prove there were none "back then"? Were ya there? Try a study of languages and linguistic patterns, it will amaze you.

Bo

[Kenneth]

When in doubt, use a Gilbert Gottfried accent....works everytime!

[Silkie McDonough]

Gilbert Godfried accent ...yes, I can see that ...everyone would stay far enough away from you that you wouldn't have to talk ...and with the way Godfried "projects" they would be some distance away!

[Sjöröveren]

My first exposure to Renaissance Faires was very negative, because everyone seemed to be either English or Irish. If you're really trying to portray the Renaissance, shouldn't there be quite a few Italians, Spanish, French and Dutch around? Not to mention pretty much every other nationality on Earth? Of course, nowadays you do see Chinese, Japanese, Arabs and Africans at Faires, but also Romans, Vikings and Klingons. So I guess the Renaissance part is really just a suggestion.

I will sometimes do accents at events where it fits, whether for historical or entertainment purposes. When I worked at an historic site, I used a French Canadian accent for awhile, trying to model it on former Canadian PM Jean Chretien, who would occasionally over-emphasize his Quebecois accent to make a point with Anglophones. Eventually, I realized that I wasn't doing a very good job with it, so I dropped it. I occasionally use a Swedish accent nowadays. I grew up hearing my grandparents speaking with this accent, so it's been imprinted in my brain. It's quite different from a modern Swedish accent, which I think add something to the authenticity. Today, Swedes speak more and more as if they are all from Stockholm, and the various regional accents are disappearing. My ancestors came from Dalarna, in central Sweden, and spoke in what today would be considered to be "hillbilly Swedish". And since I find "hillbilly English" to be quite interesting, my ancestral accent and dialect holds a special place in my heart.

I think one reason that some pirate re-enactors use the "Newton dialect" is that it is based on English syntax, vocabulary, etc. So it's already familiar to them. One of the things that I found challenging while doing a French Canadian accent is speaking English in the manner of a non-English speaker. Most languages have syntax very different from English. French and Spanish usually put the the adjective after the noun, for example, chien noir translates literally as dog black, not black dog. Scandinavian languages incorporate articles and plurals into the noun itself, so each noun can have several versions. Example: hund = dog, hunden = the dog, hundar = dogs, hundarna = the dogs. Archaic Swedish, the version I try to use in re-enacting, didn't allow for addressing someone as "you" unless you had a very close relationship - spouse, child, sibling, etc. Only upper classes were addressed by "Sir" or "Madam". Everyone else used either the person's Christian name, or a nickname (there were lots of people named "Sven" and "Lena" after all) or referred to by their profession. I have ancestors who were called "Russian Pete" and "the Drunkard Anders"! But to get back to the point, these idiosyncrasies of a foreign tongue should be reflected in how someone speaks English, if you want to sound authentic.

My other big problem with poorly done accents is when people think that over-enunciating will pass for an accent. Only if you're doing a school marm!

I tried doing the "Newton dialect" the first year at the Port Washington Pirate Festival. I figured the little kids expected their pirates to talk like pirates. My voice took most of the next week to recover from two days of "talking like a pirate". Maybe that's why TLAP Day is not a big deal to me.

[Capn Bob]

Well, I can't respond to "Hillbilly Swedish", but my Geman speaking grandparents on my mother's side were from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and my mother grew up hearing their version of German, which was not Hochdeutcsh. As time passed, she forgot a lot of German, but when we were stationed in Illesheim Germany, and went into town at Bad Windsheim, the townsfolk pegged her as Austrian, or at least having Austrian connections.

My first exposure to Renaissance Faires was very negative, because everyone seemed to be either English or Irish. If you're really trying to portray the Renaissance, shouldn't there be quite a few Italians, Spanish, French and Dutch around? Not to mention pretty much every other nationality on Earth? Of course, nowadays you do see Chinese, Japanese, Arabs and Africans at Faires, but also Romans, Vikings and Klingons. So I guess the Renaissance part is really just a suggestion.

I will sometimes do accents at events where it fits, whether for historical or entertainment purposes. When I worked at an historic site, I used a French Canadian accent for awhile, trying to model it on former Canadian PM Jean Chretien, who would occasionally over-emphasize his Quebecois accent to make a point with Anglophones. Eventually, I realized that I wasn't doing a very good job with it, so I dropped it. I occasionally use a Swedish accent nowadays. I grew up hearing my grandparents speaking with this accent, so it's been imprinted in my brain. It's quite different from a modern Swedish accent, which I think add something to the authenticity. Today, Swedes speak more and more as if they are all from Stockholm, and the various regional accents are disappearing. My ancestors came from Dalarna, in central Sweden, and spoke in what today would be considered to be "hillbilly Swedish". And since I find "hillbilly English" to be quite interesting, my ancestral accent and dialect holds a special place in my heart.

I think one reason that some pirate re-enactors use the "Newton dialect" is that it is based on English syntax, vocabulary, etc. So it's already familiar to them. One of the things that I found challenging while doing a French Canadian accent is speaking English in the manner of a non-English speaker. Most languages have syntax very different from English. French and Spanish usually put the the adjective after the noun, for example, chien noir translates literally as dog black, not black dog. Scandinavian languages incorporate articles and plurals into the noun itself, so each noun can have several versions. Example: hund = dog, hunden = the dog, hundar = dogs, hundarna = the dogs. Archaic Swedish, the version I try to use in re-enacting, didn't allow for addressing someone as "you" unless you had a very close relationship - spouse, child, sibling, etc. Only upper classes were addressed by "Sir" or "Madam". Everyone else used either the person's Christian name, or a nickname (there were lots of people named "Sven" and "Lena" after all) or referred to by their profession. I have ancestors who were called "Russian Pete" and "the Drunkard Anders"! But to get back to the point, these idiosyncrasies of a foreign tongue should be reflected in how someone speaks English, if you want to sound authentic.

My other big problem with poorly done accents is when people think that over-enunciating will pass for an accent. Only if you're doing a school marm!

I tried doing the "Newton dialect" the first year at the Port Washington Pirate Festival. I figured the little kids expected their pirates to talk like pirates. My voice took most of the next week to recover from two days of "talking like a pirate". Maybe that's why TLAP Day is not a big deal to me.

[theM.A.dDogge]

bosun.....boatswain

coxsun....coxswain......!?!?!?

Davey Jones.....divey(spirit/ghost of) Jonah

where do ya think these words came from???...proper english?....poorley pronounced misinterpruted english??

[Capt. Sterling]

Instead of pissin and moanin about it, why not try to help others get it right? practice makes perfect...

Edited August 6, 2009 by Capt. Sterling

[Cascabel]

One important thing to keep in mind if doing any kind of accent is that the result must be easily understood by the listener to be effective. I have heard accents so heavy that it is impossible for the audience to understand what is being said, even though it is "authentic". The same goes for archaic expressions. If the people you are talking to always seem to be saying, "Huh ??", then it's time to back off authenticity a bit in favor of understandability. If nothing else, ol' Robert Newton was understandable !!

>>>>> Cascabel

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Spend some time in a foriegn seaport friends. I've met some strange accents right here at home too. I have an acquaintance/friend born in Okinawa and raised in Australia. (Hell of a bladesmith, works the "old-ways" with Damascus techniques. He went to Isreal to learn the old art of Damascus steel).

Mad'dogge makes a good observation too. Most of the seamens vocabulary is based on multi-ethnic slanguage. This would have evolved out of necessity for a multi-ethnic crew to be able to work together, and understand thier individual tasks in spite of language barriers..

Edited August 6, 2009 by Capt. Bo of the WTF co.