Rats Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Oi Folks! Just a reminder to make sure we have flash guards and frizzen stalls for Paynetown!! I know that not everyone expects them. But it'll be part of the paynetown safety check. No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 OK if I'm right... Looks like they expect flash guards for long arms if they are to be fired on line.... Pistols are apparently exempt.... Perhaps we should not fire on line and rather rotate our fire from behind cover... Such as the stonewall technique!! Oi Folks!Just a reminder to make sure we have flash guards and frizzen stalls for Paynetown!! I know that not everyone expects them. But it'll be part of the paynetown safety check. No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 If you are sailors, why bother firing like a hat battalion? will save on having to put flash guards on the guns especially since only paynetown requires them... "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 Exactly This way we can avoid flashing and the hassels of conversion!! If you are sailors, why bother firing like a hat battalion? will save on having to put flash guards on the guns especially since only paynetown requires them... No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 agreed "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Oi Folks!Just a reminder to make sure we have flash guards and frizzen stalls for Paynetown!! I know that not everyone expects them. But it'll be part of the paynetown safety check. Last year long arms were expected to have them. Pistols were not. Blunderbusses were in a gray area. People firing from boats had more leeway than militia who would be firing in line. For people who get caught without, there was a sutler there with some gun supplies (but weapons themselves cannot be sold in the park). Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 Oi Folks!Just a reminder to make sure we have flash guards and frizzen stalls for Paynetown!! I know that not everyone expects them. But it'll be part of the paynetown safety check. Were that the case, I plan to shoot my Buss and pistols...I really don't plan to farb my musketoon for one event. No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Just a question here, but why not have the safety devices? Not being of your crew, and since all of my pieces already have guards and stalls, it's not an issue for me, but I would like to know. Anything that I run requires them, no matter what date. It's part of the safety inspection. Stall and guards, open pouches and verify there is no ball, hang the piece by the trigger on half cock to make sure it works and spring the rammer to verify the barrel is clear. That's standard at any 17th and 18th century event, whether for line troops or skirmishers. Safety is always the primary consideration. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 (edited) We have the frizzen/hammer stalls, but not the flash guards due to the fact we don't fire in a line, and placing ourselves at appropriate safety distances is easy enough. Not only that but flash guards direct the flash upward..the broader hats then catch the flash and direct it back into the eyes and face of the shooter, the hell if that's safe.... Our guns have always passed safety inspection and we always insist that the person pulling the trigger passes as well... funny how so many events test the guns but never check to see if the shooter actually knows what he is doing... Edited June 29, 2009 by Capt. Sterling "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Bottles Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 This might be speculation, but I wonder if we're going to see a lot more requirements of this sort as more events require insurance... "The time was when ships passing one another at sea backed their topsails and had a 'gam,' and on parting fired guns; but those good old days have gone. People have hardly time nowadays to speak even on the broad ocean, where news is news, and as for a salute of guns, they cannot afford the powder. There are no poetry-enshrined freighters on the sea now; it is a prosy life when we have no time to bid one another good morning." - Capt. Joshua Slocum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 This might be speculation, but I wonder if we're going to see a lot more requirements of this sort as more events require insurance... Actually, I don't think the insurance thing will factor in as much as the divide between pirate re-enactors and more traditional 18th century re-enactors narrows... The more traditional 18th century re-enactors have a long standing traditional and very ingrained culture of mandating flashguards... As pirate re-enacting sprung up as a more loose and informal thing, a great many things that don't fly at F&IW and REv War events have become commonplace at pirate events. Pistols are another one to watch for... They are used very little in F&IW and Rev War events, discouraged at many events, and all out not allowed at quite a few as well if I have not misread things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Bo of the WTF co. Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Firing at a left oblique offsets the flash from the pan, this is what we do when using flinters in line around here. We too know the burns from flashguards, hats, hair, and faces. Bo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Interesting. I'm less concerned with the flash than I am with flying flint chips. I've been hit with those at distances of 10 feet and they hurt. I've worn the wide brimmed hats while firing flintlocks and its never bothered me. Of course, I'm used to a matchlock going off inches in front of my face, so the flash from the flint doesn't seem so much, even under the hat. You are correct, though, Micheal. The more military reenactors that come over, the more safety regs you will see. Some sites' insurance do ask what safety rules are in place and expect those to be from one of the nationally known groups like BB, BAR, or CL. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted June 29, 2009 Author Share Posted June 29, 2009 If this be the case... We should maintain a formal and written safety standard and go from there. I personally have no problem with not using a shoulder firing weapon if that be the case, and shooting only pistols at an event or complying with the single musketon I have. What be the common opinion??? No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Sterling Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 Interesting, I have used flash guards as required in Am Rev. War for over twenty years, of course not on the pistols, but the carbines required it... chips from flints still fly any where they chose. I have not seen a flash guard protect against those to any extent where a flash guard truly made a difference... I've taken em in the face and sure it hurts for a minute or two, but then it hurt when the horses stepped on your foot when you weren't expecting it... Funny how at one of the Spring events it was the guys with the flash guards that forgot about distance and ended up placing their muzzles behind some folks' ears... I agree with Michael that as more regimental type shooters join in the events that regulations will increase...already it is required at pirate events IF you are firing in the line, you must have a flash guard... but honestly, be careful of regulating us all out of the hobby, by say, removing pistols from the field, hmm when they were never a problem to start with, and weren't with the BAR or Brigade of the Am. REV. or the Continental Line twenty years ago. Geeze why are we pirates?? If we will soon be required to only carry long guns and fight like hat battalions, hmmm perhaps we should all go back to Rev. War? I still say it boils down to who is pulling the trigger... officers should be firing less and watching their crews as well as any other crews on the field for idiots whose guns' pass but the shooters just can't remember their spacing or aren't even paying attention to see if their guns are actually firing... what scares me are events where a person runs up and tries to have their non firing crappy replica inspected, the guy checking the gun tells them they brought the wrong pistol, they look and say oh are you sure?, run back, get the real thing and bring it over to be inspected and then end up in the battle... come on... you can't tell the difference and yet because your gun passes inspection, you're out there shooting?? "I being shot through the left cheek, the bullet striking away great part of my upper jaw, and several teeth which dropt down the deck where I fell... I was forced to write what I would say to prevent the loss of blood, and because of the pain I suffered by speaking."~ Woodes Rogers Crewe of the Archangel http://jcsterlingcptarchang.wix.com/creweofthearchangel# http://creweofthearchangel.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I'm with you Sterling... I was just pointing out my observations, but while I accept that is how things will likely go, I certainly hope they no do not go that way.. Or at least very far that way. I'm not much liking the idea of adding a flashguard to my doglock, but as someone who does a more military style portrayal (seemingly more often than not) I may not have the choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theM.A.dDogge Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 next thing ya know...we will be all made to ...wrap our swords in duct tape and styrafoam...and wear saftey vests...with eye protection...... wot? you say??......they didnt have them back then??....neither did they have flash guards!?? i have been a looong time advocate for saftey EDUCATION.....in stead of saftey devices.......with one you are teaching someone How to be safe...what to look for...and how to fix it.....before someone gets hurt.... with the other....you teach em nothing.....those who trust..(in this example)....flash guards...will not pay attention to distance...or accuracy....THATS when someone gets hurt...... most folks i heard spout off about ....saftey....are really saying...i dont trust you.....if you dont trust the man next to ya.....then EDUCATE EM.....dont just put a saftey device...between ya. maybe there should be I.Q. tests before every battle???......na...thats not period either. saftey is allways important...and never....circumvented...nor am i advocating that it should.....just that their are OTHER METHODS to being safe.....and one shouldnt be made more important than the other....just because....someone...who dosent trust ya...says so. the ONLY time i wa ever hurt at an event.....was with a SAFTEY PROP GUN....?!?!?! the muzel was blocked...it was made for point-blank firing......the report and flash...went out thru the sides.......and you guessed it......the saftey officer....said to the newbie....use this one...its a saftey gun......who proceeded to come up from behind...fired in line.....and blew out my eardrum.....i now have permanentnerve damage in my right ear.....from a SAFTEY device. Education on saftey...will always be safer than a device....period. but enough of my ranting....i will go back to the shadoes.....skamper, skamper..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascabel Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Another very important consideration is that flash guards only work well on pieces with a bridle on the flash pan. Many earlier style locks do not have this feature. What holds the flash guard in place is it being pinched between the head of the frizzen screw and the pan bridle. If there is no bridle present, there is nothing to prevent the guard from rotating along with the frizzen, and it will also prevent the frizzen from moving freely. Maybe the people that advocate some of these all-encompassing "safety" rules need to take another look at practicality !!! >>>> Cascabel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelsbagley Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Another very important consideration is that flash guards only work well on pieces with a bridle on the flash pan. Many earlier style locks do not have this feature. What holds the flash guard in place is it being pinched between the head of the frizzen screw and the pan bridle. If there is no bridle present, there is nothing to prevent the guard from rotating along with the frizzen, and it will also prevent the frizzen from moving freely. Maybe the people that advocate some of these all-encompassing "safety" rules need to take another look at practicality !!! >>>> Cascabel Damn, I hadn't even considered that! Well I just ran off and checked and my doglock musket, and it does have a bridled pan... Whew (relief)... But I don't think I can say the same for the fishtail fowler I have coming in the mail in a few weeks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 OK so the question is.... where are we as a crew (AA bunch) and as a society ( Bretheren of Pirate Reenactors)going to draw the line and accept as a standard? Muskets... yes? Busses... No, as long as it's not fired in formation? Pistols... Dear God, never!!! Another very important consideration is that flash guards only work well on pieces with a bridle on the flash pan. Many earlier style locks do not have this feature. What holds the flash guard in place is it being pinched between the head of the frizzen screw and the pan bridle. If there is no bridle present, there is nothing to prevent the guard from rotating along with the frizzen, and it will also prevent the frizzen from moving freely. Maybe the people that advocate some of these all-encompassing "safety" rules need to take another look at practicality !!! >>>> Cascabel Damn, I hadn't even considered that! Well I just ran off and checked and my doglock musket, and it does have a bridled pan... Whew (relief)... But I don't think I can say the same for the fishtail fowler I have coming in the mail in a few weeks... No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 Just for the record... excellent discussion everyone! excellent points!!! Oi Folks!Just a reminder to make sure we have flash guards and frizzen stalls for Paynetown!! I know that not everyone expects them. But it'll be part of the paynetown safety check. No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theM.A.dDogge Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 OK so the question is.... where are we as a crew (AA bunch) and as a society ( Bretheren of Pirate Reenactors)going to draw the line and accept as a standard? Muskets... yes? Busses... No, as long as it's not fired in formation? Pistols... Dear God, never!!! nope...i wouldnt put em on any.....juyst tell the mate next to me...scootch over i still think it should be per group descision.....i wouldnt kick a guy out for usin one....nor for not....so long as both are safe with it.... as far as guards go...i have seen more issue with them thennot....... ps....as a side note...i still have mine...and have been nknown to add it when required to play at events.....just highly disagree with the need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callenish gunner Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) It's their yard and their ball ....so their rules I agree with you Dogge Safety has to be instructed and drilled into folks to make sure they understand the need for safety ...and as always half-cock or flashguard are only devices and with all devices come failures The most important safety feature comes BETWEEN YOUR EARS ... USE IT!!!!! It only takes one accident to change the rules for everyone!!! Edited June 30, 2009 by callenish gunner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rats Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 Sounds reasonable I'll pick one up just to be safe! It's their yard and their ball ....so their rules I agree with you Dogge Safety has to be instructed and drilled into folks to make sure they understand the need for safety ...and as always half-cock or flashguard are only devices and with all devices come failures The most important safety feature comes BETWEEN YOUR EARS ... USE IT!!!!! It only takes one accident to change the rules for everyone!!! No rest for the wicked! Wait a minute... that's me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 This might be speculation, but I wonder if we're going to see a lot more requirements of this sort as more events require insurance... Actually, I don't think the insurance thing will factor in as much as the divide between pirate re-enactors and more traditional 18th century re-enactors narrows... The more traditional 18th century re-enactors have a long standing traditional and very ingrained culture of mandating flashguards... As pirate re-enacting sprung up as a more loose and informal thing, a great many things that don't fly at F&IW and REv War events have become commonplace at pirate events. Pistols are another one to watch for... They are used very little in F&IW and Rev War events, discouraged at many events, and all out not allowed at quite a few as well if I have not misread things. If I remember correctly, the Paynetown event is insured. That's why they have had fundraisers. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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