Why artificially age clothes??????

[Hawkyns]

OK, this is kicking around in Twill, and now in the Market, but the question doesn't really belong in either. Why take all the time to artificially age clothing, when just wearing it properly will do the same job? Is it your clothing, or just a costume you put on occasionally? From reading some of this, it seems that people want to look like a pirate, but wouldn't really go to the length of actually getting dirty and smelly. No matter how you do it, fake looks fake at anything less than ten feet. Even the pro costume wonks do this to be seen at a distance or on film, not in one to one contact. The only way to age clothing naturally and have it look right is to wear it doing the dirty jobs, wear it in the rain, wear it for a few days straight, wash it occaisionally in harsh detergent and never dry clean it. I guess I just don't get it. And it's not just the clothing. There is a reluctance, nay a hard opposition to really doing this. A dirty pirate with carefully washed hair, neatly shaven face, and smelling of modern deoderant and toothpaste, or with fancy hairstyle, modern makeup and painted nails just doesn't make the look believable. All the aging in the world will not overcome the modern look and smell of the person underneath.

So please people, tell me why.

Hawkyns

[Jack Spareribs]

OK, this is kicking around in Twill, and now in the Market, but the question doesn't really belong in either. Why take all the time to artificially age clothing, when just wearing it properly will do the same job? Is it your clothing, or just a costume you put on occasionally? From reading some of this, it seems that people want to look like a pirate, but wouldn't really go to the length of actually getting dirty and smelly. No matter how you do it, fake looks fake at anything less than ten feet. Even the pro costume wonks do this to be seen at a distance or on film, not in one to one contact. The only way to age clothing naturally and have it look right is to wear it doing the dirty jobs, wear it in the rain, wear it for a few days straight, wash it occaisionally in harsh detergent and never dry clean it. I guess I just don't get it. And it's not just the clothing. There is a reluctance, nay a hard opposition to really doing this. A dirty pirate with carefully washed hair, neatly shaven face, and smelling of modern deoderant and toothpaste, or with fancy hairstyle, modern makeup and painted nails just doesn't make the look believable. All the aging in the world will not overcome the modern look and smell of the person underneath.

So please people, tell me why.

Hawkyns

Funny. I kinda get yer drift.

I have had to "age" my gear in the past and when having to replace it.

But...that is the cool part. I have worn my gear so much on a daily basis and yeah doing everything from sailing to loading and firing cannons, to mostly my shows where juggling fire does basically the same as firing cannons to it. :)

Yep, I do look somewhat like the Hollyweird Sparrow guy... but I do at least SMELL like a real pirate.

I am on my second pair of boots (yeah, yeah I know...no buckly shoes here) but I have had to replace the soles of my second pair already and am in need of a new pair again.

This comes from being a street performer mostly but you arrrr certainly correct. It does not take that much to age properly. The sun is a very harsh beast and fade things so wonderfully, I had had waistcoats fall apart from the salt water and sun combo after a year. I have been through about 9 shirts in 5 years.

But...I assume most do not want to smell as bad as I do and may not have the time to devote to livin' the ride...err life.

-Ace

[Capn' Mac]

Well speaking for myself I can tell you that it’s a matter or real life. In real life I’m not a pirate nor do I engage in pirate activity. I work behind a desk 50-60 hours a week and the majority of the rest of my time is spent raising my kids, paying bills and cleaning up the house and yard. Pirates simply don’t have stains from PB&J, Mac&Cheese, furniture polish, and Windex. I live in Denver Colorado, one of the most landlocked non-nautical places a person could get stuck in America. Not salt sea air, no sandy beaches, no pounding wind. So this leaves me with distressing my gear.

Now to be fair I try to distress my stuff in somewhat realistic was. I was just working on a new hat last night and added sweat and brine stains with steamed saltwater. If I need my whites to be grungy, it’s out to the back yard for some dirt. I don’t iron my clothes or keep them folded, I like to twist them and crinkle them and grub them up.

And to be honest I distress them because it simply looks better than something that just came off the costume rack.

[Bilgemunky]

This question carries the common presumption that we're all reenactors, and have the luxury of allowing clothing to age naturally. For me, waiting for natural aging has two primary flaws - first, I just can't make it to enough lengthy, dirty, outdoor events, so my clothing would end up looking new for a very, very long time. The second problem is regarding hygeine and smell - many times I need to look the part of a dirty pirate while amongst "normal" folks - folks that can appreciate a dirty, period looking pirate, but who might be less keen on historically accurate smells. I'm sure Spareribs would agree that sometimes you've got to be selective in just which parts of piracy you portray around the public, and which parts you gloss over.

[ThomasBlackthorne]

This question carries the common presumption that we're all reenactors, and have the luxury of allowing clothing to age naturally. For me, waiting for natural aging has two primary flaws - first, I just can't make it to enough lengthy, dirty, outdoor events, so my clothing would end up looking new for a very, very long time. The second problem is regarding hygeine and smell - many times I need to look the part of a dirty pirate while amongst "normal" folks - folks that can appreciate a dirty, period looking pirate, but who might be less keen on historically accurate smells. I'm sure Spareribs would agree that sometimes you've got to be selective in just which parts of piracy you portray around the public, and which parts you gloss over.

I couldn't agree more.

I also understand how much better just wearing your clothes seems to work. However, if you have a day job that requires a specific type of dress code, how in the world do you wear your pirate clothes constantly? I am in mine all the time when not working, but have occasionally worn them to work as well.

I think that if you're not at liberty to be a pirate 24/7 (even if you truly want to be) that artificially aging your clothes is worth it. You might not look as authentic as someone who wears constantly, but ya deal with the hand yer dealt...

Edited June 18, 2009 by CaptainThomasBlackthorne

[Hawkyns]

[i couldn't agree more.

I also understand how much better just wearing your clothes seems to work. However, if you have a day job that requires a specific type of dress code, how in the world do you wear your pirate clothes constantly? I am in mine all the time when not working, but have occasionally worn them to work as well.

I think that if you're not at liberty to be a pirate 24/7 (even if you truly want to be) that artificially aging your clothes is worth it. You might not look as authentic as someone who wears constantly, but ya deal with the hand yer dealt...

Nah, I'm not buying it. I had a day job with a dress code until last year and it never affected my kit. You get home on Friday, put on the kit, load up, travel, go through the event and travel home. Just loading the car will put stains and pulls on the kit. Sleeping in your kit will put the creases in, add sweat stains, and add the appropriate funk. Yes, it takes two or three events, but that's not that long. I'd rather see someone in new kit that is working in, than have them show up in something that looks fake.

As far as being around "normal" people, it's a different attitude. Yeah, I know I'm a reenactor and a hard core one. But I've never shrunk from telling the public the truth or portraying it, no matter how disagreeable they may find it. I'd rather they back off a couple of feet, rather than bow to their expectations "normal" or Hollywood.

Hawkyns

[ThomasBlackthorne]

As far as being around "normal" people, it's a different attitude. Yeah, I know I'm a reenactor and a hard core one. But I've never shrunk from telling the public the truth or portraying it, no matter how disagreeable they may find it. I'd rather they back off a couple of feet, rather than bow to their expectations "normal" or Hollywood.

Hawkyns

Well said sir, well said. *applauds*

[Bilgemunky]

Hawkyns,

You continue to support your statements solely from the reenactor perspective. I *don't* spend the majority of my weekends at outdoor pirate events with the ability to sleep in pirate clothes and engage in dirty pirate activities. Most of the events I attend are relatively clean - a pirate party at a bar, a pirate festvial in town, etc. And often times I'm at the event hired to be a pirate DJ, and the establishment - to say nothing of its clientelle - wouldn't take kindly to me stinking the place up. I'm there to entertain, not educate.

I certainly agree that anyone who spends a good chunk of time reenacting might be best served just letting their clothing age naturally. But there are many of us, all for different reasons, who approach piracy from different perspecitives. And for us, artificial aging is often a must.

[Caraccioli]

I agree with Hawkyns that it only takes a few events to get your kit looking authentically used. I have never sought to artificially age mine. (Being a surgeon, I have the notion that my clothing would be a little less desperate looking than your average seaman, so that is probably part of it as well.) Still, if aging is fun for you and makes you feel more like the character your portraying, I don't see where it really matters that much.

Now authenticity of smell is not what I'm personally going for, so I don't care a whit about that aspect vis-a-vis my character. (Keep in mind that this is from someone who prefers hotels to encampments and enjoys showering and regular daily ablutions, event or no.) People who want that level of authenticity, great! Have fun with it, knock yourself out, do (or in this case, don't do) your thing. I'll be over with my surgical junk doing my thing with the scents of Speed Stick, Ivory and Johnson's Baby Shampoo surrounding me. (Of course I use Johnson's Baby Shampoo.)

Edited June 18, 2009 by Caraccioli

[Niko]

I did the artificial aging with my very first kit...and it never really sat well with me. It looked decent enough but it didn't feel right. Now I'm starting another kit that is going to much more period and I'm going to just wear it. Mind you I'll wear it while I trudge through the mangrove swamp in my back yard but not everyone lives in the Florida Keys so I'm lucky in that sense.

Although I can understand why some may go with the artificial route, I thing just letting things wear on their own does a better job. To each his own I suppose.

(Of course I use Johnson's Baby Shampoo.)

This doesn't surprise me in the least bit lol.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Niko

[ThomasBlackthorne]

As I was showering (weird time to be thinking about being so dirty), I did have a couple of thoughts cross my mind.

1. If you wear your garb constantly and it's full of dirt, dried sweat, rain, god knows what else, would that not prove unsanitary for your body? Wouldn't things like scabies, lice and other gross vermin be attracted to your stench and dirt? Just a question mind you, I'm not saying anything negative here, I just don't know if I am willing to have those kinds of things happen to me, lol.

2. Yes, I have dyed some of my garb in tea to give a well worn look, but my garb has a lot of wearing authenticity. In fact, most of it's appearance is authentic. I hardly ever wash my trewes, my shirt never gets washed, and I have enough sweat, spilled rum and beer, and after my stupid sword escapades, great bloodstains. Not to mention the various holes and missing buttons, etc...

I am not sure what my main point is here, but I know my garb is not completely fake, it may not be PC, but it sure aint fake!

Edited June 18, 2009 by CaptainThomasBlackthorne

[LadyBarbossa]

It's all in knowing how to distress it to look real and who knows how to distress it.

Just dirtying an outfit or piece up does not making it will worn. It's even some wear and maybe tears. And mendings of those tears.

But, each to their own really. All you can really do is worry about YOUR appearance and not the appearance of others. If it gives them a high 5 in the face they will get it. Otherwise if it doesn't, let the dead horse be and stop beating it.

One event with me usually does the trick to make a new piece look a little bit more lived in.

~Lady B

[Capn' Mac]

I gotta side with Bilgemunky on this one (love yer site by the by). Being stuck in the middle of Colorado I get to take out the kit once maybe twice a year at best. My next one isn’t until the end of July if I’m lucky this year. So breaking an outfit and gear in is not as easy.

I’d also say we’re talking about three different things here:

• Clothes
  
• Body
  
• Hygiene
  

As far as clothes go, because I only get to get into the kit about once or twice a year, I don’t want it to look that way. I want the clothes to look every day worn and battletested. Now I agree the best way to do it is to really just do it. However not given that luxury I opt for artificial aging. And to be honest I will refute the claim that the “entertainment” industry only ages beyond the 10 foot rule. Being a veteran stage man, any live stage production ages for 1 on 1 distance especially if it’s outdoors. Tea bags make great sweat stains, sand paper makes a great worn spot, saltwater steamed works for sweat salt satins. There are some things you have to simulate, like cloth cut by an edged weapon, blood stains, and shot burns. And lets face it, don’t come swaggerin’ up to me saying you’re a “battle hardened seadog” if your clothes don’t have the cuts, tares, and burns to prove it! Most folks just can’t bring themselves to cut, tare, or burn clothing they just bought or even worse made! But it needs to be done.

Body. I’m talking visual aspect here. I couldn’t agree more. If I see one more pale, clean shaven, trimmed, un-weather beaten, unscared pirate I’ll go into a fit! Not really but it’s a point. Again being a veteran stage and make-up man I have an edge, but make-up can easily be done for 1 on 1 distance and look real. And fellas, stubble at least is free and come natural. As above, don’t tell me you’ve been swingin’ a blade and shootin’ a pistol with out the scars to prove it. If anyone wants advice on realistic up close make up FX, just ask.

Hygiene. Again, have to go with Bilgemunky. While I often take advantage of the Rockies and rough it at above timberline for 2-4 days at a time with no problem with out deodorant with wife, that’s in actual practice. We like to rough camp it together. However. At the rare pirate event, I’m around other who may not appreciate the stench of a sea drowned bilge rat. I like to respect them and give them a rough looking mariner with out that fish gut funk. Not to mention the fact that I like my lady in her pirate garb and want to get very close at the end of the day. So I try to keep it clean. Though I do avoid modern scents and will go unscented in the pits and wear a period scented oil to please my lady.

Just my two pieces worth.

[Atala Syrcuse]

As one who does more promotional type work in costume, I prefer Penny Rose's method of throwing the clothing items in question into a cement mixer with a few bricks for 10-15 minutes. This works very well especially if you have a full crew of extras and a one day/weekend event.

[Quartermaster James]

I am squarely with Hawkyns on the subject of clothing. IMHO it comes down to whether you have clothing or a costume.

That said, I recognize that for most their "garb" is costume, and they are just trying to make their costume better.

So you have a day job? What do you wear when you are doing yard work? Jeans and a t-shirt? Get over it!

Put on your slops and the rest o' yer kit! Don't worry about the neighbors - most likely you're better armed than they are anyway

Wear your kit while working on your car, while barbequeing, etc.

There, that will get it all nice and grungy like. So, how do you go about keeping it clean?

Rule #1: no modern washing machines or detergents. Hand wash in good old fashioned pure soap. Fels-Naptha can be found almost everywhere still, and there's fancier stuff around too. What you absolutely want to avoid are the UV whiteners prevalent in most detergent. Hand washing and line drying will also help your kit age appropriately.

Rule #2: see Rule #1.

Just my two-cents worth, and spoken as an overly clean pyrate.

[hurricane]

Wow, I guess I just never gave this much thought. I have clothes in my kit that are 15 years old, and some newer pieces. People back then did get new clothes on occasion, you know. And then it wore naturally over time. When a frock coat wore out, people would often take it to the tailor who would then reverse the fabric and resew the lining back in, so basically the coat was then wrong side out but relatively new looking again.

If you're trying to represent the person in the time period, you wouldn't artificially age anything - Hawkyns is dead on on that account. I see the folly noted here on how to age weapons. Why would anyone want to age a weapon when keeping a weapon in good working, like new order was the norm?

Trying to look tattered and torn artificially doesn't make any sense, since clothing was in different stages of repair and aging all the time, just as it is now. The only difference was people didn't wash their clothes as often. If you want to be authentic, learn about the magic of Fabreeze and quit washing all your stuff in a washing machine after each wear. That will help it look authentic. And if you have a stain you like, throw the garment in the dryer and heat set it permanently.

-- Hurricane

[Capn' Mac]

This is good advice however most are portraying an iconic figure that is defined by their profession. Pirates were pirate not because of what they wore but because of what they did while they wore what they wore and those garments got worn. Take a look at the Carhartt and Dickie clothes work by your average construction worker, miner, roughneck, etc. It visually looks more worn, used, and beaten up than your average modern day street clothes. By the same token a 17^th-18^th century plantation owners outfit will look much nicer than your average working sailor, blacksmith, or tanner. These folk worked with tar, hemp, blade, hammer, lye, salt etc. They climbed, sweated, and performed manual labor, slept and lived in the same set of clothing day-to-day. I just think the clothes should reflect that and if you can’t get it done naturally by doing these things, do what you can.

[William Brand]

I do heavy yard work and lawn care to age mine. Just kneeling and weeding for an hour or two will wear the knees of a good pair of slops over time.

[Hawkyns]

Bilgemunky- it's the perspective I have. I don't do faires, so I don't see that type of person. When we go to a bar in kit, it's generally on the way home from an event, so we are in our usual appearance.

From April to November I spend at least 3 weekends a month under canvas, whether it be pirate, border reiver, or RevWar gunner. We've been hired for a few events, but we don't change our operational standards for them.

I understand that not everybody lives like I do (I feel sorry for them, but I understand ). On the other hand, as QM James said, everybody has dirty jobs to do wherever they live, from painting the bathroom, to changing the oil, to mowing the lawn. That's why I asked the question. With so many opportunities to crud up clothing naturally, doing the movie FX stuff just didn't make sense.

Hawkyns

[Capn' Mac]

April to November? You're right! I am am suffering from envy!

[Silkie McDonough]

Yard work, change a tire, be a klutz while disembarking ...okay the chlorine in the swimming pool probably didn't help keep the whites grimy it did lighten the blue in the waistcoat. lol Using ones apron as a cloth to wipe ones hands or a spill works wonders ...just don't use it on Gatorade ...hard to explain a neon green stain in 1720! LOL

I am with you all on the natural aging, dirt etc. for clothing but dirt on the body becomes itchy after a few days and as a human in 2009 I just don't tolerate it well. So, sometimes I just find it necessary to mimic black powder on my face and hands. Dirt and mud is easy to find and reapply daily. My question is how does one mimic an aged sun tanned hide when one spends most of his time indoors? It took my aunt over 30 years of sunbathing in Florida to achieve that! Me, I burn, turn pink and then fade. I got a tan on my forearms in Hampton this year, dry and itchy and wrinkly and all I can't imagine allowing that to happen to my face. No, I am all for reality but I am also all for avoiding skin cancer.

[Capn' Mac]

Sea weathered skin! One of my favorites. Now before anyone else says it, I’ll admit the best way is to work out doors or ride a motorcycle! However if you are talking make-up FX, I’ll have to put together a detailed FX make-up how to but for now I’ll simply say you want Ben-Nye tan base foundation, latex foam wedgies, a couple of stipple brushes, red for the broken blood vessels, black for the grit, Character shadow for the lines and freckles, Ultra-light for more stippling, Vaseline, powdered charcoal, dirt tone powder, and translucent powder.

Sounds like a lot of trouble I know but if you need to be weather beaten over night these are the supplies to start with.

Now scars are another matter all together…

[Rumba Rue]

Sorry, I want a pirate that's smells GOOD! Has good hygiene no lice, crabs, or other stuff crawling on dirty bodies.

Stinky pirates............yucky!

Ok so I'm a prissy wench, tough!

I agree with Bilgemunky, not everyone can do what you do Hawkins. Gee haven't seen any dirty, filthy women around..........good thing.

Since you don't do faires Hawkins, it shows a rather short-sided vision.

[Silkie McDonough]

GAH! Stage makeup for three days straight ...I would be one big zit! I'll just settle for rubbing mud on myself and hope it reads well from 10 feet away. Otherwise I am the owner of a fine ordinary and most of my time outdoors is spent under the brim of a large straw hat with naught but my forearms exposed to the sun.

[Bilgemunky]

Bilgemunky- it's the perspective I have. I don't do faires, so I don't see that type of person. When we go to a bar in kit, it's generally on the way home from an event, so we are in our usual appearance.

From April to November I spend at least 3 weekends a month under canvas, whether it be pirate, border reiver, or RevWar gunner. We've been hired for a few events, but we don't change our operational standards for them.

I understand that not everybody lives like I do (I feel sorry for them, but I understand ). On the other hand, as QM James said, everybody has dirty jobs to do wherever they live, from painting the bathroom, to changing the oil, to mowing the lawn. That's why I asked the question. With so many opportunities to crud up clothing naturally, doing the movie FX stuff just didn't make sense.

And in your situation, it makes every sense to let your clothing age naturally. But this thread continues to amaze me at how many folks consider one way of ageing to be "right," and the other to be wrong. The simple fact is that there are multiple means of achieving the same goal - that of portraying a pirate look that fits our goals for the event at hand. For some it would make sense to let it age naturally, others not so much. Were I to simply let my own real-world dirty work age my pirate clothes, believe me I'd get hassled for the non-period stains.

One point stands true, though - artificial aging is an art, and when poorly executed looks just plain awful. But when done well it can lead to some stellar looks that put a newbie in his or her brightly colored, fresh garb to shame. And this is nothing new - in the military, it's the new recruits in their off-the-shelf uniforms that get hassled by their mates, and nothing sucks more than having having to dispose of a much-loved but no longer up to standards working uniform shirt only to don a new piece of wretch fresh from the package that still has that "new shirt smell", and itches something awful. And before the invention of stonewashed jeans, how many kids and adults alike purposely ran their pants through the washer extra times to get a proper faded look? Hell, I'll bet even in pirate days a freshly recruited landlubber might have done everything within their means to artificially speed up the aging process so they wouldn't look quite so out of place.