Belly Box that goes around neck

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

I'm looking for a belly box that goes around one's neck, hangs in the front and is held in place by a belt. Like the ones that appear in so many illustrations. Bart Roberts (lower image) has one on.

[michaelsbagley]

You could use the one you have and just find a strap that will accomodate it to hang it in that way... One of the reasons I angled the top of the belt loops on the boxes the way I did was to attempt to help them be able to mount on a baldric in case anyone wanted to try it. I have not done it myself yet, nor has anyone else who has bought one, but it should be possible... Although it might only accomodate a narrower strap in hanging that way (inch? inch and a quarter?).

Please let me know if you have any luck with this.

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

You could use the one you have and just find a strap that will accomodate it to hang it in that way... One of the reasons I angled the top of the belt loops on the boxes the way I did was to attempt to help them be able to mount on a baldric in case anyone wanted to try it. I have not done it myself yet, nor has anyone else who has bought one, but it should be possible... Although it might only accomodate a narrower strap in hanging that way (inch? inch and a quarter?).

Please let me know if you have any luck with this.

That's a great idea Michael! Any idea what style of strap would be PC? I have a Tandy right by the house - I could run down there and gett he supplies. Just wondering what sort of pattern to use.

BTW - Nice chatting with your wife in the airport!

[michaelsbagley]

You could use the one you have and just find a strap that will accomodate it to hang it in that way... One of the reasons I angled the top of the belt loops on the boxes the way I did was to attempt to help them be able to mount on a baldric in case anyone wanted to try it. I have not done it myself yet, nor has anyone else who has bought one, but it should be possible... Although it might only accomodate a narrower strap in hanging that way (inch? inch and a quarter?).

Please let me know if you have any luck with this.

That's a great idea Michael! Any idea what style of strap would be PC? I have a Tandy right by the house - I could run down there and gett he supplies. Just wondering what sort of pattern to use.

BTW - Nice chatting with your wife in the airport!

Your going to need at least 8 ounce weight leather (although I tend to prefer 10 ounce for straps)... They will likely even have some belt straps precut in good length that you could buy to save money. Bring the box with you so you can try feeding the strap through at an angle to make sure you get a good width. If you want to match the same colour as what you currently have on it, buy the "Antique Brown" cream dye. They will be able to help you with how to apply that.. I also recomend adding a buckle so you can take the box on and off the should harness. Test to ensure the buckle you choose will fit through the belt loops as well. Most Tandy leather factory locations are great at talking you through small projects like this... Heck a better location may even offer to help. I learned most of what I know about leather from Shannon (who you may or may not have met), but I have learned a great deal from Tandy leather employees as well.

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

You could use the one you have and just find a strap that will accomodate it to hang it in that way... One of the reasons I angled the top of the belt loops on the boxes the way I did was to attempt to help them be able to mount on a baldric in case anyone wanted to try it. I have not done it myself yet, nor has anyone else who has bought one, but it should be possible... Although it might only accomodate a narrower strap in hanging that way (inch? inch and a quarter?).

Please let me know if you have any luck with this.

That's a great idea Michael! Any idea what style of strap would be PC? I have a Tandy right by the house - I could run down there and gett he supplies. Just wondering what sort of pattern to use.

BTW - Nice chatting with your wife in the airport!

Your going to need at least 8 ounce weight leather (although I tend to prefer 10 ounce for straps)... They will likely even have some belt straps precut in good length that you could buy to save money. Bring the box with you so you can try feeding the strap through at an angle to make sure you get a good width. If you want to match the same colour as what you currently have on it, buy the "Antique Brown" cream dye. They will be able to help you with how to apply that.. I also recomend adding a buckle so you can take the box on and off the should harness. Test to ensure the buckle you choose will fit through the belt loops as well. Most Tandy leather factory locations are great at talking you through small projects like this... Heck a better location may even offer to help. I learned most of what I know about leather from Shannon (who you may or may not have met), but I have learned a great deal from Tandy leather employees as well.

Good tips! So would the straps be three pieces? Two straps that go around the neck and buckle, both attached to one horizontal strap that the box would be? Know what I mean?

[michaelsbagley]

Pardon the crudeness of this sketch...

But I am suggesting two strips, one longer to go over the back and shoulder, and one to come half way up your front. They should attach at one end each at about a 30 to 60 degree angle (depending on your fit and comfort).... The buckle should go on the front piece with the tongue of the strap being on the back strap. Let me know if this is making sense.

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

Pardon the crudeness of this sketch...

But I am suggesting two strips, one longer to go over the back and shoulder, and one to come half way up your front. They should attach at one end each at about a 30 to 60 degree angle (depending on your fit and comfort).... The buckle should go on the front piece with the tongue of the strap being on the back strap. Let me know if this is making sense.

LOL - You Rock Michael! You even sketched out and scanned in a pattern for me all while, I'm assuming you are at work.

Thanks friend!

[michaelsbagley]

You're welcome!

Microsoft paint, it sucks but it can be used in a pinch...

Now this started as a thread about buying a baldric, but has turned into a more of a how to make it kind of thing... Would you mind if I moved it up to pirate craft? As the direction this discussion took really seems to fit better in there.

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

You're welcome!

Microsoft paint, it sucks but it can be used in a pinch...

Now this started as a thread about buying a baldric, but has turned into a more of a how to make it kind of thing... Would you mind if I moved it up to pirate craft? As the direction this discussion took really seems to fit better in there.

Move it away.

[Joe Pyrat]

I'm looking for a belly box that goes around one's neck, hangs in the front and is held in place by a belt. Like the ones that appear in so many illustrations. Bart Roberts (lower image) has one on.

I've talked to the gentleman here in Saint Augustine who makes the leather gear for the garrison at the Castillo about making me one of these pistol/cartridge box slings like you see Roberts wearing in this picture. I'll let you know more once we get underway.

[Commodore Swab]

Ive been toying with a similar idea about building a baldric similar to that but thaking the approace of what it needs to do and then build it. Of course I am also loking at building pistols perfect size for a baldric like this.

[gunner Gordon]

It is just a normal cartridge box set up that is worn around the neck instead of over the shoulder. a little water and the strap will form to your neck.

[blackjohn]

I've always found it interesting that the pic of Roberts changed over time.

Click here. Scroll down to the bottom and look at the two pics.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

Just a quick suggestion; consider using hemp, flax, or woven wool tape/strapping for wearing around the neck. I built one and the leather cuts into the clothing and back of my neck more than I would like. Causes damage to the back of the neck on garments in my experience.

Bo

[PoD]

I'm in the process of making one of these. I made the cartridge box the 9 hole version so that it sits a bit better.

I am toying with the idea of making it so it threads onto my swordbelt too so it doesnt swing out everytime i bend over.

Took me a while but i finally figured out a way to hold the pistols on the belts too without using a bucket holster.

Soon as I get 2 mins to myself I will fasten it all together and post some pictures.

[Capt. Bo of the WTF co.]

I was thinking maybe I should elaborate a bit on the problem i encountered with the leather around the back of the neck. It seems that there is a lot more movement behind the neck than across/over the shoulder rigs. The rough side of the leather strap acts like a rasp on fabric/wool during the motin of turning your head from side to side, and other normal movements. For some rason, it doesn't seem to affect the shoulder rigs the same way. my short jcket and linen waistcoat both have scuff marks where the leather strap was riding, plus I got some rash-burn from this as well. The woven straps and tapes seem to grip the clothing better and not allow the rasping effect on the cloth. It might just be a "me" thing, but I felt it was something to share. FWIW

Bo

[Commodore Swab]

Thinking about this, what if it did not go around the neck and instead went all the way down the back and attached to the back of the belt?

[Cascabel]

Ya know.... It may be just pure conjecture on the part of the artist !! These kind of pictures were not drawn from life, and were often rendered many years after the fact. More than likely by an artist commissioned to illustrate a book who never actually saw his subject.

A belly box is not all that heavy to wear on a waist belt. They were fairly common in the land armies, and were supported on the waist belt alone. No issues with swinging about or other such problems.

Just a couple of dissenting opinions. Your mileage may vary......

>>>>> Cascabel

[Capt. Sterling]

I have this rig, and honestly, its a nightmare to work with... as I was moving from stern to bow on the Explorer last weekend, we all came to the conclusion that this particular set up may just be an artist's imagination....

[PoD]

Thinking about this, what if it did not go around the neck and instead went all the way down the back and attached to the back of the belt?

I was wondiring about this. They could possible have been like braces and the straps fastened in a Y shape at the back of the belt. Either that or both staps just looped straight over and had something to keep them together at the back so they didnt slide off the shoulders.

[sutlerjon]

I have this rig, and honestly, its a nightmare to work with... as I was moving from stern to bow on the Explorer last weekend, we all came to the conclusion that this particular set up may just be an artist's imagination....

I have to agree, the belt is much more secure, particularly if you have to go aloft during a fight, things swing about ... catch in the rigging .......

If there were braces for gear, why not fer me britches? Keep 'em from slidin' down me backside. Fat boy like me ... no hipbones to hold 'em up.

Put the strap under a belt and you constrict your movement ......

A simpler time, i.e. gear not so complicated as a few years beyond ...

Just my opinion, trust me I'd love to make and sell more complicated stuff, but I do have cartridge box slings from the "future" that can be adapted to fit a cartouche box ....

[michaelsbagley]

On a documentation oriented note...

I recently picked up a copy of "Small Arms of the British Forces in america 1664 - 1815" by: De Witt Bailey pH.d., and there is a page on cartridge carrying methods for the 1680 to 1700 era, in that time they found documentation of 10 sorts of cartridge carrying boxes/pouches... There is specific mention of carrying a cartouche/cartridge box on belts (more frequent) and mention of a cartrdige box on a should strap (I think only one or two mentions)...

But from a more practical experience standpoint, I have found affixing my shot box to my belt so comfortable, I have never even bothered trying to think of setting it up on a shoulder harness (diagonal or front-wise).

[Ivan Henry aka Moose]

I have to agree as well. After making one, I have to say it seems to be very restricting and at least in my case, the cartridge box had a slouch to it when fastened under the belt. It didn't face forward like in the illustrations. Now, that's assuming I made mine correct, which is a big assumption. Also, it does kill my neck. If it's tight, it feels like it's literally pulling you over.

I would like to see some research or at least an existing piece to understand how this thing worked. Seems like it's going the way of the silk X from the Wydah in terms of trying to figure out it's function.

[blackjohn]

I recently picked up a copy of "Small Arms of the British Forces in america 1664 - 1815" by: De Witt Bailey pH.d.

Dang... I just spent $90 on two books... now this... will the book buying never end?!?!

But from a more practical experience standpoint, I have found affixing my shot box to my belt so comfortable, I have never even bothered trying to think of setting it up on a shoulder harness (diagonal or front-wise).

I'm just the opposite. I really prefer the shoulder belt. But to each his own.

[Joe Pyrat]

Ya know.... It may be just pure conjecture on the part of the artist !! These kind of pictures were not drawn from life, and were often rendered many years after the fact. More than likely by an artist commissioned to illustrate a book who never actually saw his subject.

A belly box is not all that heavy to wear on a waist belt. They were fairly common in the land armies, and were supported on the waist belt alone. No issues with swinging about or other such problems.

Just a couple of dissenting opinions. Your mileage may vary......

>>>>> Cascabel

This had occurred to me regarding the drawings in Johnson's General History and other places. The cartridge boxes we use at the fort are the belt type and work quite well but do hang up on things from time to time. The other thing that occurs to me is would you really be reloading? Spanish marines were expected to get off one shot every 15 seconds (4/min). This was in a land action in ranks where they would have covering fire long enough to reload. I wonder if this would be an option during a boarding? When in the fighting tops or closing on another vessel using a musket it might, but using pistols on deck?

Still it's an interesting rig and I am planning on giving it a try but I am going to carry the cartridge box on the belt not the neck sling or suspenders.