Isabella Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I usually enact in the Elizabethian period in a time when "Pirates" weren't as defined as they became in the 1700's. The beginnings of what we know as the definition of Pirate started long ago, but the most recognizable pirates are that in tri-corner hats, and long frock coats. Since I do Elizabethian enactment, I wanted to know what a Pirate of that time looked like. I wondered around and found this book. Elizabethian Sea Dogs Amazon show's some photos, which gives us the impression of what they looked like. I love the Ospray books, I used them alot in other costuming brain storming ideas, and I was happy to see this one, plus some of the history on the Spanish Main. Harbor Master asked about going to faire as he is in his current costume, and I wanted to know more myself about what "pirates" were in the Renaissance . I also pulled up the Sea Dogs Guild from Southern California Renaissance Faire , for photo ideas of what pirates at faires wear. http://seadogs.org/ I've only done this because I was curious, and wanted to know about it for myself and who ever might have been interested. I figured out that they looked like everyone else, but with more character, style and creativity. They also have some wild hats! Check out the photos! But down to the end, what ever a "pirate" means to you, is what it is. It's an expention of our persona, and idenity in costume. So, if you idenity is a tri-cornered hat in 1550, then it is. :) I'll not be carrin', it's yer choice how you dress fer yer best plunderin'! Izzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Without wishing to plyug my own group too frequently I feel I must also dreaw your attention to Bonaventure, UK based Eliazabethan maritime living history group. Have a look at the gallery pages, all our costumes are copied either from period pictures or surviving examples so they are pretty much as authentic as it's possible to get. Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capnwilliam Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 The main thing to remember about pirates, Isabell, is that they were first and foremost seamen of whatever era they lived in. While they may have dressed a bit more nicely than other seafarers - assuming business had been good - when in port, aboard ship they'd have dressed just like any other mariner. My own Seadogges group originated out of an Elizabethan orientation. Check out www.Seadogges@yahoogroups.com And welcome aboard! :) Capt. William "The fight's not over while there's a shot in the locker!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Hey Foxe do you just copy and paste that answer in everytime this question comes up man. If not your gonna get carpal tunnel syndrome . THIS BE THE HITMAN WE GOIN QUIET Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 Thanks All! I'm building up a section for Elizabethian Sea Doggies on my site for links, I wasn't aware of other groups, links etc. So keep sending them on! Thanks for all the extras, I've never seen these links, and I'm like a squirrel, if my favorites were acorns I'd have 8 score oak trees by now. I figured out by looking that pirates were pirates in anything they wore. It's the actions that created the image. I think in the inital post I said I figured out they wore what everyone else wore, based on their funds, but thank you so much for clarifiying and adding to it! Foxe, consider contriduting your groups link to www.faires.co.uk or www.faires.com Mike lists groups from both sides of the pond, and is a lover of England, having returned last year and telling me about the great historical copies they brought back for their costumes. And without plugging Faires.com too much myself, consider donating a few dollars/pounds to him to help keep him going. His dedication to Faires and history is one beyond the call of duity. He's been doing Faire since the 60's, and I did faire with him my first year working. He help spark the passion I have for faire, by showing me that it was a history lesson in every aspect. He's very dear to my heart, if you couldn't tell! Captain Williams I'll come take a look! I'm trying to not get too addicted too many boards or else I'll live online, and that isn't good for my back. ROFL But I'm always open to being there, even if I can't post often. :) Thanks all! :) Izzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted January 19, 2004 Author Share Posted January 19, 2004 Foxe, Thank you for your site. I took a look, and that's what I envisioned Pirates of the times of Elizabeth 1 looking like. So now I know I nailed it on the head. I'm starting to get requests for costuming for Elizabethian Pirates, so I want to know that I'm doing right by those coming to me. Some of them work, other's play. I'm working on a pirate costume for myself that is more girly than most. A lot of women will wear pants, which makes sense, but since Faires are celebrations, I figure I can get away with a skirt. Which other wise on a boat would be rediculious. I've been on a boat, in skirt, and bleh. I've got a middles feel to the cut of my bodice, and warmer colours. I think it'll work out really well. I'll take photos when I'm done. :) I'm taking my time, wanting the details to be right. Izzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Without wishing to plyug my own group too frequently I feel I must also dreaw your attention to Bonaventure, UK based Eliazabethan maritime living history group. Have a look at the gallery pages, all our costumes are copied either from period pictures or surviving examples so they are pretty much as authentic as it's possible to get. I'm a bit hazy on the clothing of the period, Foxe, but I'd thought breeches of the period were pointed to the doublet. Yet a lot of these folks seem to be wearing belts. Also, are those button flies correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Formal suits are indeed pointed togther. Belts vary from sword girdles to working belts. Sailor's slops weren't pointed, and the belt was needed. Workers- sailors, farmers, craftsmen, etc.- didn't always wear a doublet. Cassacks, a sort of pullover garment, jerkins, and smocks were all worn by working men, most with a belt to hold a utility knife and some sort of belt pouch. Button flies are indeed correct on breeches. They had a v-shaped gusset in the back of the waistband to adjust the waist measurement and even pockets were starting to appear set in the seams of the breeches. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 I wear a belt to hold my extras, cup and so or I'm stuck with a basket, which wouldn't look very nice on a man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Salem Bob' Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Why not use the historic sailors solution, the ditty bag? in canvas or macrame, you can't go wrong, and it doesn't look as silly as carrying a cup on your belt. They can be fairly small, and sling over your shoulder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 Usually 3/4 of enactors I am with are wearing cups on their belts. I don't think it looks nearly as strange as some think. I wear the cup, pouch combo, because it's what I'm used to, and it helps keep everything on me. Most faires also will fill your mug/tankard with your drink of choice, so I stick with it as a current option. :) I've got an old book on making macrame from the 1800's. I'll really have to try a diddy bag. Do you any photos of people that carry them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Salem Bob is right, the tin cup is generally in or attached to the ditty bag, or slung from the haversack strap for re-enactors. The tankard on some kind of a belt loop is a faire-folk thing. Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 We wear our cups on our belts, because it was something we were taught was done in the time. It was taught that you came to the table baring your fork and spoon with cup. The Table was made with "bowls" carved out in the planks, where the food was served to you. When the food was done, the table was washed down, and you cleaned your own wares. This was done in the poorest of homes. Most people at faire dress as the lowest classes, simple farmers, and their families. In classes I was taught before working faires, we were taught this was the proper idea of a person of 1550 of our class. That what we owned was dear to us, and that after the Plague people didn't feel comferable offering cups to strangers, or folks or spoons. Most of our information came from the Living History Society that helped found Renaissance Education. I think a Haverstrap on a woman would be uncomfterable since we are more commonly bare across the neck and chest, but I could see wearing a ditty bag off a belt, or on a long strap for our things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkyns Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 The concept is correct, it's the execution that I have problems with. Nobility did indeed take their eating equipment with them. Lowerclasses would at least carry a knife, spoon, and cup. But they would be carried in a haversack or some such for a man, or in a basket for a lady. The double loop tankard hanger is what I was referring to in terms of being from Faire only. Forks, of course, are an evil affectation used only by Italians and other effete types who are scared to get their hands dirty Hawkyns Cannon add dignity to what otherwise would be merely an ugly brawl I do what I do for my own reasons. I do not require anyone to follow me. I do not require society's approval for my actions or beliefs. if I am to be judged, let me be judged in the pure light of history, not the harsh glare of modern trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paisley Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Forks, of course, are an evil affectation used only by Italians and other effete types who are scared to get their hands dirty i've been a pirate all along and didn't even know it....lol "This calls for a particularly subtle blend of psychology & extereme violence." -Vivian, The Young Ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isabella Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 We used to have "stickers" that a blacksmithy made us. it was basically a twisted piece of ironwork. Worked really great for spearing potatos in soups, and stealing hunks off of turkey legs. I'll look into a ditty sack. :) Always lookin' always addin'. I'm a frickin' squirrel. Choo Choo Cho..Nuck Nuck Nuck. (Wait isn't that Curley from Three Stooges?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 As Hawkyns says, both belts and button flies are authentic. Like I said, all our kit is copied from period sources or surviving originals, so while you may find small mistakes upon close examination from a distance of a foot or more it's all authentic. A lot of people over here go about with their tankards attached to their belt too, but it's something I've NEVER seen in a period depiction so I've always assumed it's just a re-enactor thing. It's not really practical is it? Since we're all seafarers did you know that forks were banned in the Royal Navy until 1897 for being too girly? Foxe"With this Fore-Staff he fansies he does Wonders, when, God knows, it amounts to no more but only to solve that simple Question, Where are we? Which every chi'd in London can tell you." - Ned Ward The Wooden World Dissected, 1707ETFox.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Frye Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 ... Since we're all seafarers did you know that forks were banned in the Royal Navy until 1897 for being too girly? ... Did that include the officers? Thanks to you and Hawkyns for the comments on the clothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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